Most violent country in entire modern history of civilization? To wipe out humanity?

Who could it be? In terms of death toll from its founding days, thru to present and near future? And from where is all the resources/funding & willing destructive manpower coming from??

As 12/21/2012 nears, I witness fellow Americans talking about possible natural disasters - solar eclipses, flares, earthquakes, tsunamis, polar shifts, perfect storms, you name it. We'd had all these all the time, even the Siberian asteriodi! and it never was the 'end of the world' from all these natural disasters, for most our species.

But, no one's talking about all the genocides in the past generation alone. Let alone just a few more back. When I think of the end of the world, it isn't a quake or hurricane that killed hundreds, nor even a tsunami that killed more than about twenty to hundred thousand ppl.

So I just skimmed history for genocide and extinctions, and found quite a few huge death tolls. There was the extermination of the native population (of mongolian descent) of the Americas by Europeans, where tens of MILLIONS of natives were exterminated over a relatively short period of time, a few centuries ago. Then there was the more recent complete genocide of native Tasmanian aborigines, they are now completely extinct at the hand of Europeans. The last Tasmanian Aborigine to ever live, died in 1876.

Since then it seems it's been been the Americans who exterminate the most humans on Earth, both domestically and globally. I believe it was GW Bush who stated in a speech to his people, that he made God's word part of his foreign policy? During American's first civil war (late 1800s) roughly 22 thousand Americans perished in domestic quarrels and this figure from history books doesn't even include thousands of additional native americans killed in foreigners crossfire over their homeland.

I've heard America was responsible for genocides around Serbia, Bosnia and other areas of Eastern Europe but since my research while writing this post was limited to the past 15 mins, I did not happen to stumble upon any genocidal figures. I did however come across Truman's nuking of Hiroshima & Nagasaki.. I believe for a couple hundred American soldiers killed at pearl harbor, Truman made sure to kill over 200,000 Japanese civilians as payback. Nixon's genocide project where he killed off about half the civilian population of Cambodia in the last few years of the Vietnam war. Yet looking back in school nothing was taught about this, only about "the" holocaust. I think it wasn't till college years I learned there was more than one holocause and that 'the' holocaust was just the jewish one the American school system, for whatever reason, chose to frame nicely for us.

On that note, I think there used to be a country in the mideast called Palestine? But somehow the muslims were systematically killed off (and still are today) and at the hands of US & British military, replaced with Jews, and a country called Israel with a few hundred nuclear warheads to go with it.

And since then to present, there's been the domestic ritual sacrifice of around 3,000 Americans to ring American's takeover of the mideast... the ongoing CIA activity in Iran (Ever since America's coupe there back in 1953) then a whole bunch of justified preemptive wars: the Iraq "war" on WMDs (that didn't exist) the Afghanistan "war" ditto for Syria, Libya it's obvious America's going right down the list of mideast countries with a few million civilian casualties each country...

Now with the advent of USAF arsenals of thousands of unmanned drones taking out Afghan & Pakistani civilians villages indiscriminately, and the everlasting effect of hundreds of thousands of tons of depleted and enriched uranium that surpass the radiological equivalent of hundreds of nuclear bombs renduring the mideast uninhabitable except for mass mining operations... at this rate, to what end, ultimately? Survival of the fittest... to what ends?

Or, is humanity relatively in safe hands with America? and it's imperial China with its military bases & nuclear arsenal all over the world, that more threatens humanity?

Err..... I'm curious about a basic point of your premise. How are you coming up with the numbers? As I know them, Stalin is good for 20 Million people in his own right and Mao is good for at least 40 million more. That's dead, of course.

20th Century Death Tolls

If there are figures that show the US exceeds 40 million people total, let alone under one leadership, I'd be interested in seeing them?

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Err..... I'm curious about a basic point of your premise. How are you coming up with the numbers? As I know them, Stalin is good for 20 Million people in his own right and Mao is good for at least 40 million more. That's dead, of course.

20th Century Death Tolls

If there are figures that show the US exceeds 40 million people total, let alone under one leadership, I'd be interested in seeing them?

Not sure why you need a figure on number of people, rather than number of countries?

Show me a map of multiple continents Mao or Stalin perpetrated genocide across.

Last I checked, if one wiped out solely one nationality, there would still be the rest of humanity. Which is the problem with America clearly it has wiped out tens of millions of native Americans, then tens of milions of humans across Mideast, then Asia.. where next? Beside, Mao and Stalin... where are they now? LOL

Are you saying Stalin or Mao perpetrated global extermination?

I believe that my country, the USA, -began- with intentions of good. But there was the slavery of Africans, and slaughter of native Americans. It seems that after the Federal Reserve got ensconsed, then we really became an amped up machine of foreign meddling, propaganda, domestic oppression, spying. I sit back and can't believe that we went and dropped atomic bombs on civillian populations, especially in light of the fact that we provoked Japan.
Darkness, darkness, spiritual depravity. I want it all to not exist in an instant.

^ Hmmm, what could it be that fosters widespread American arroganceimmorality & violence in our government, troops & apparently, even civilians?

I mean, I don't see any other government (other than US & EU) - not even big imperial China or Russia - invading multiple continents, dropping bombs wherever they feel like to top it off, pretending like external "terrorists" are doing it when its their own people (American officials) doing it, even to their own people (American civilians).

Near, far, wherever you are... are you safe from the wrathe of imperial America?

Originally posted by minnow

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Not sure why you need a figure on number of people, rather than number of countries?

Why do we need figures on numbers of people? Maybe because you should provide factual information to back up claims of genocides in excess of 10 million people. It's easy just to say it, it's entirely different to back it up with factual figures.It should be well known that there are many things I don't agree with in terms of how governments work around the world, but you'll never see me just throw numbers out there without at least an attempt of backing it up.As far as American involvement? Many, many governments have been involved in covert actions in which killed thousands upon thousands for thousands upon thousands of years. Does this fact make it OK for the U.S. to do such things? Of course not. But to claim America is an exception to the rule is just absurd. During the Roman empire alone there were millions slaughtered and millions taken into slavery. Same goes with the British empire. Same goes with the Egyptian empire.Sounds like anti American rhetoric being spewed attempting to capitalize on the tragic events that took place earlier today.

Originally posted by minnow
Near, far, wherever you are... are you safe from the wrathe of imperial America?

I was entertaining the idea of participating in the discussion but then you wrote the above quote then in the same reply posted an RT video.


Not only that but, Wrabbit made some great observations and points followed by asking direct and legitimate questions which you simply brushed aside and attempted poorly to sidestep with rhetoric...

Bad form.

Looks like they'll remain "claims" of genocides herewithin, then. I

'm not here to dispute death tolls, but asked the audience which country is the most violent... USA or some other country like China? And based my impression of the obvious continuing intercontinental, global scope of invasions.

I'm just one member on ATS, I never speak on behalf of "we" like the above poster. That wreaks of... arrogance.

reply to post by minnow


Unbelievable! You are blaming the United States for the ills of the World? Unreal!

I have a sometimes JOB that takes me to many places and these places are Hellholes of epic proportions. There is only the rule of the GUN and lately the rule of misplaced religion.

I have seen and experienced things that no one should have to experience. Why do I do it? Because no one else will.

The United States has kept the General World at peace for multiple decades. The U.S. has stopped a Chinese invasion of Taiwan, a Soviet invasion of Europe and the Middle East. It stopped the Japanese in WWII and was instrumental in destroying the Nazi's.

The U.S. stopped genocide in the former Yugoslavia as well as stopped hundreds of possible incursions of one country upon another for decades. The U.S. has also stopped thousands of possible Terrorist Attacks upon Europe.

It is not only offensive but is ignorant to the reality of History of the World when you condemn the United States. After all you could be speaking German right now.

Split Infinity

Guess there's inst any most violent *country* on Earth, in the history of civilization, afterall?

(Cuz nobody proposed an answer)

Originally posted by minnow


I'm just one member on ATS, I never speak on behalf of "we" like the above poster. That wreaks of... arrogance.

And the Title doesn't reek like a bad Science fiction book?

Please.

If we are going to turn the the first page, I should easily see China, in the preface.

Its dangerous around here to educate the ignorant about Stalins and his many followers ideals in relation to extermination of Christians approx 20 million.
There are many stalin admirers who wished he killed all christians.
Thats all I have to say.

Oh look another "how evil Amerkia" thread that clearly ignores world history

Been there done that so many times....taking this one off.

But of course Amerika sat back and played xbox all day long at let communism,fascism,religious zealots run wild they would be screaming why isn't Amerika saving them.

Most violent country in the world?

Not even close

Originally posted by minnow
Guess there's inst any most violent *country* on Earth, in the history of civilization, afterall?

(Cuz nobody proposed an answer)

Because it is a silly question. What do mean by most violent? Places with no rule of law like many places have been? If your talking about wars then China would seem to hold the top spot 30 million during the war to create the Ming dynasty, 25 million for the wars to create the Qing dynasty, Well over 20 million during the Taiping Rebellion, 13 million in the Lushan Rebellion, 8 million in the Dungan rebellion, 3 million in the Yellow Turnan Rebellion, 1 million in the Du Wenxiu Rebellion, and another couple million by Mao. And then you have to add all its wars against other powers or the world wars. China takes the gold. Although Russia is not far behind. Then maybe the Mongols, Spanish, Germans. America would not even crack the top 10.

You wanted some talking points?

OK let's dissect this tragic attempt at historical revision and lack of accuracy by the numbers one by one.

Originally posted by minnow
During American's first civil war (late 1800s) roughly 22 thousand Americans perished

US Civil War = 1,030,000 causalities

I've heard America was responsible for genocides around Serbia, Bosnia and other areas of Eastern Europe but since my research while writing this post was limited to the past 15 mins, I did not happen to stumble upon any genocidal figures

Because there aren't any.

I did however come across Truman's nuking of Hiroshima & Nagasaki.. I believe for a couple hundred American soldiers killed at pearl harbor, Truman made sure to kill over 200,000 Japanese civilians as payback.

US Death toll at Pearl Harbor was closer to 2,402 But yeah, Add that to The Japanese slaughtering of as many as 30 million Filipinos, Malays, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Indonesians and Burmese, at least 23 million of them ethnic Chinese. Then you'll get the real big picture.

Nixon's genocide project where he killed off about half the civilian population of Cambodia in the last few years of the Vietnam war

That was actually China's supported Pol Pot who did the killing of the estimated 1 to 3 million people out of 8 million

So I just skimmed history

It shows...

Originally posted by SLAYER69


That was actually China's supported Pol Pot who did the killing of the estimated 1 to 3 million people out of 8 million

China supporting North Korea, lets not forget..........

Too bad this thread, didn't start out with a basis, to its assumptions........

Democide is a term revived and redefined by the political scientist R. J. Rummel as "the murder of any person or people by a government, including genocide, politicide, and mass murder." Rummel created the term as an extended concept to include forms of government murder that are not covered by the term genocide, and it has become accepted among other scholars.

Democide is the murder of any person or people by a government, including genocide, politicide, and mass murder. Democide is not necessarily the elimination of entire cultural groups but rather groups within the country that the government feels need to be eradicated for political reasons and due to claimed future threats. According to Rummel, genocide has three different meanings. The ordinary meaning is murder by government of people due to their national, ethnic, racial, or religious group membership.

Rummel's counts 43 million deaths due to democide inside and outside the Soviet Union during Stalin's regime.[citation needed] This is much higher than an often quoted figure of 20 million. Rummel has responded that the 20 million estimate is based on a figure from Robert Conquest's 1968 book The Great Terror, and that Conquest's qualifier "almost certainly too low" is usually forgotten. Conquest's calculations excluded camp deaths before 1936 and after 1950, executions from 1939–1953, the vast deportation of the people of captive nations into the camps and their deaths 1939–1953, the massive deportation within the Soviet Union of minorities 1941–1944 and their deaths, and those the Soviet Red Army and secret police executed throughout Eastern Europe after their conquest during 1944–1945. Moreover, the Holodomor that killed 5 million in 1932–1934 is also not included

Democide

You are welcome to dislike or even hate the USA...I have no idea where you live but you need to get your facts straight and not "skim history" to suit your goals...There has been many terrible terrible nations and Empires and I am sure there will be more to come.

And so my question remains,

What is the most violent country in entire modern history of civilization?

Instead, the replies seem almost obsessed with quoting/correcting exact figures, instead.

Do the figures stand for a different country or something? Do explain.

Originally posted by minnow
And so my question remains

Why?

It was asked and answered repeatedly with many countries mentioned and links provided.

What is the most violent country in entire modern history of civilization?

This should help

Instead, the replies seem almost obsessed with quoting/correcting exact figures

Historical accuracy is not appropriate nor appreciated?

Do the figures stand for a different country or something? Do explain.

Well one can only lead a horse to water....
After that it's up to the individual as to which end of the horse cares to reply.