DisInfo agents, bogus members posting threads...why?

Originally posted by Wide-Eyes
reply to post by Hefficide

 

At last. This disinfo agent crap is tiresome...

What? At last? He's not telling us to stop, nor have I named anyone ever.. If you don't wish to read you can move on. Heff isn't saying anything new, but I'm glad he put that here for everyone to see. It's part of the rules of this site, and has been for a long time..

The discussion continues, even if you are too tired to participate.

So continuing on:

Restricted U.S. Army Psychological Operations Process Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures Manual

... 2-103. Persuasion and influence are the primary tools of PSYOP. As such, PSYOP Soldiers must strive to become familiar with, and ultimately develop, tactical and technical proficiency in the use of persuasion techniques. The following are some specific techniques used to present supporting arguments to the TA:

• Glittering generalities. These are intense, emotionally appealing words so closely associated with highly valued concepts and beliefs that the appeals are convincing without being supported
by fact or reason. The appeals are directed toward such emotions as love of country and home, and desire for peace, freedom, glory, and honor.
• Transference. This technique projects positive or negative qualities of a person, entity, object, or value to another. It is generally used to transfer blame from one party in a conflict to another.
• Least of evils. This technique acknowledges that the COA being taken is perhaps undesirable, but emphasizes that any other COA would result in a worse outcome.
• Name-calling. Name-calling seeks to arouse prejudices in an audience by labeling the object of the propaganda as something the TA fears, loathes, or finds undesirable.
• Plain folks or common man. This approach attempts to convince the audience that the position noted in the PSYOP argument is actually the same as that of the TA. This technique is designed to win the confidence of the audience by communicating in the usual manner and style of the audience. Communicators use ordinary or common language, mannerisms, and clothes in face-to-face and other audiovisual communications when they attempt to identify their point of view with that of the average person.
• Testimonials. Testimonials are quotations (in and out of context) that are cited to support or reject a given policy, action, program, or personality. The reputation or the role of the individual giving the statement is exploited. There can be different types of testimonial authority. Official testimonials use endorsements or the approval of people in authority or well known in a particular field. Personal sources of testimonials may include hostile leaders, fellow soldiers, opposing leaders, famous scholars, writers, popular heroes, and other personalities.
• Insinuation. Insinuation is used to create or increase TA suspicions of ideas, groups, or individuals as a means of dividing the adversary. The PSYOP Soldier hints, suggests, and implies, but lets the TA draw its own conclusions.
• Presenting the other side. Some people in a TA believe that neither of the belligerents is entirely virtuous. To them, messages that express concepts solely in terms of right and wrong may not be credible. Agreement with minor aspects of the enemy’s point of view may overcome this cynicism.
• Simplification. In this technique, facts are reduced to either right, wrong, good, or evil. The technique provides simple solutions for complex problems and offers simplified interpretations of events, ideas, concepts, or personalities.
• Compare and contrast. Two or more ideas, issues, or choices are compared and differences between them are explained. This technique is effective if the TA has a needs conflict that must be resolved.
• Compare for similarities. Two or more ideas, issues, or objects are compared to try and liken one to the other. This technique tries to show that the desired behavior or attitude (SPO) is
similar to one that has already been accepted by the TA.
• Illustrations and narratives. An illustration is a detailed example of the idea that is being presented. It is an example that makes abstract or general ideas easier to comprehend. If it is in a story form, it is a narrative.
• Specific instances. These are a list of examples that help prove the point.
• Statistics. Statistics have a certain authority, but they must be clear enough to show the TA why they are relevant. In most cases, it is best to keep the statistical evidence simple and short so the TA can easily absorb it.
• Explanations. These are used when a term or idea is unfamiliar to the TA.

SOURCE

Link includes PDF download..

Some Terms
PSYOP = Psychological Operations
COA = Course of Action
TA = Target Audience

reply to post by lambs to lions


Seems to me that most disinfo shills on this site keep their attention towards the Israeli/Palestinian issue, which makes sense, as AIPAC pretty much owns congress, and organizations like the ADL (Anti-Defamation League) have way too much pull, even in Canada. I have never really run into anyone that I suspected of being a shill when it didn't have to do with Israel.

reply to post by lambs to lions


I actually wrote an article about this very subject not 10 minutes before you did, we were probably writing it at the same time...and I decided to do something else...I have always felt the reality is very much staring us in the face every day. That they create websites and pose as members in various websites for dis-informational purposes, much the same way they do throughout the world on a daily basis.

BAW33

reply to post by Dustytoad


Hey man, hold your horses. I have seen you post many times and respect your opinion. I'm just saying that too many people throw the shill card around simply because someone disagrees with them.

This is still a minority of ATS but we have to be discerning with our judgements.

reply to post by Wide-Eyes


ahh. Sorry I interpreted your post to mean you were sick of the topic, not the accusations against certain posters. I hadn't seen any direct accusations, so I didn't think you could mean that..

"this disinfo crap" didn't sound like the specific accusations it sounded general.

I get it now.

reply to post by Dustytoad


I am in sales. I am very good at it. Coincidentally, ALL of these techniques are exactly the ones I use every day, in person. This is how you bring someone around to your point of view. My point of view being they should give me their money, but it works for anything. This is also how you pick up girls, for example.

Anyone who thinks there are no shills or disinfo agents, here and everywhere, is dreaming. Several organizations have admitted they do it, so you can rest assured that they ALL do it, using all these techniques. However, the OP was talking about people who finally reach 20 posts and make threads that are meaningless and incoherent.

That is not a shill, or disinfo agent. That is just an idiot. Anyone who thinks there are no idiots, here and everywhere, well, is apparently one of them.

Originally posted by lambs to lions
Inevitably there will always be those who create accounts on ATS for less than sincere interest in alternative news or conspiracy theories. I'll go ahead and disregard the bored pimple faced teenagers looking for a giggle and focus on the others... My question to you guys is 'why?'

Lately, I've noticed more and more pop up. Typically their threads and posts stick out like a sore thumb. It's obvious there is no real interest in the topic, and by and large the posts are quickly thrown together or even incoherent. What's confusing is many of these bogus members aren't posting out of this world claims for attention, or other obvious reasons.

Are they phishing attempts? Profiling? Gauging members interest in a topic?

Does it have something to do with the 2012 popularity?

What gives????

Perhaps it is just that new members do not know how to properly research the facts and combine them in such a way to create an entertaining thread.

Not everything has to be "disinfo agents and bogus members."

reply to post by daaskapital

Well said!

You are most wise daaskapital!

Originally posted by daaskapital

Perhaps it is just that new members do not know how to properly research the facts and combine them in such a way as to create an entertaining thread.

Not everything has to be "dis-info agents and bogus members."

Well put. Except for the one's who joined here who were already experienced with this sort of thing, not everyone knows what they're doing when they first join.

Instead of saying that they have bad intent, say that they're mis-informed instead. It's an apt description no matter how you cut it.

reply to post by Dustytoad


I think you missed my point. Im saying people are lazy, and those terms have been used as a surrogate for intelligent conversation. They are used inappropriately at times.

reply to post by superluminal11


We don't do witch hunts here.

I would maintain that a true "disinformation agent" on ATS is relatively rare, unless you insist on broadening your term so widely that it includes people like Bernard, likely a lonely kid in his Mom's basement who has nothing really to do. There are people who get a kick out of disrupting threads; I've been the 'victim' of one myself, though I do not claim to have been irrepairably harmed by the onslaught of the abject stupidity unleashed against me.

But people who claim to be able to discern "disinformation agents" around every corner are the same as people who see a UFO or alien in every window reflection, and a ghost at every gas station security camera caused by a bug. These "disinformation agents" are a figment of people's imaginations. They don't exist any more than Queen Elizabeth is a reptilian or 12/21/12 means, well, you know....

For one thing, it is simply unnecessary to exert the energy. Here at this "cranky conspiracy site" (MSM said so) we have people who insist the wildest conspiracy theories are true without a doubt, from Chemtrails to Nibiru, and with no appreciable proof other than dreams and prophecies. All any real "disinformation agent" would have to do is watch, laugh, do nothing, and report back that he was completely successful. What a cushy job! The very idea that "disinformation agents" are here, or that you have some special power of recognition to see them, is disinformation itself. Utterly laughable.

Im not much for conversations, but this reminds me of something I read recently so I figured Id post a link. It talks about the CIA's possible involvement with internet trolling, which ive read about before on here, with a few interesting quotes. Liveleak has a ton of crazy videos if youre interested too, but be warned some are graphic.

www.liveleak.com...

There are a few reasons why this happens:

One, it's the winter season and people are forced inside their homes because of the cold weather. Can't go jogging, can't hang out at the park, can't drive to a friends' house in the icy weather, so they have the Internet, and the forums. New people, every year.

Two, it's the winter season and soldiers are forced inside their offices because of the weather.

Three, it's the winter season and political types that were full of something to do a month or two ago are still working for their un-elected kinds and their causes, online.

Four, someone must be posting some real good stuff for the rest to want to flush them out. Remember, not all posters are of your country. It could be a cyber war front. As my neighbor described it once, they get computer nuts and think they run the world from their laptop.

Five, people are running out of end of the world theories now that the end of the world seems to be here, again. They form online cliques and trample other websites neatly trimmed gardens of reason and curiosity.

How about those that have an exaggerated post count within a relative short time of membership while consistently and solely focusing on parroting authoritarian, pro war, pro wealthy, pro corporate, anti labor, anti social safety net, plus other related bits of propaganda and fear mongering?

Say near 15K posts in less than 2 years? Thats about 21 posts a day Monday through Sunday without interruption since day 1 of joining up. Sounds like a full time job imo.

reply to post by Snoopy1978


In this modern time in the age of the world wide web, it would be ignorant to think that the government's intelligence agencies do not monitor and utilize internet sites...just my two pennies. Having said that, why is it so hard to believe that those of us who spend an inordinate amount of time on ATS, wouldn't be able to notice when a member seems out of place? I'm not saying that posters who don't agree with an opinion on something is a shill. I'm not saying we should be calling out these members, or accusing them of anything. This is why I specifically did not point fingers. It would be poor practice, and it is against the T & Cs. I am perceptive and I do notice members that are out of place. As a psychology major it is interesting to me. Some of you made good points that suggested some people are inexperienced with this site, or aren't mentally capable and just plain lazy. These are good suggestions, and probably correct in many cases. There are just times where the shoe doesn't fit.

Originally posted by AkumaStreak

Originally posted by transmundane

Originally posted by lambs to lions
Inevitably there will always be those who create accounts on ATS for less than sincere interest in alternative news or conspiracy theories. I'll go ahead and disregard the bored pimple faced teenagers looking for a giggle and focus on the others... My question to you guys is 'why?'

Lately, I've noticed more and more pop up. Typically their threads and posts stick out like a sore thumb. It's obvious there is no real interest in the topic, and by and large the posts are quickly thrown together or even incoherent. What's confusing is many of these bogus members aren't posting out of this world claims for attention, or other obvious reasons.

Are they phishing attempts? Profiling? Gauging members interest in a topic?

Does it have something to do with the 2012 popularity?

What gives????

I have a theory drawn from the world of advertising. It involves repetition -- a sort of "flooding the airwaves" with messages in order to drown out others. I point to Apple (sorry to any fans out there), as an example of this. Their devices are not really exceptional in most cases (I have better insight into this than probably most of the population) -- not necessarily worse than anything out there, but when you pop these devices open and see "Samsung" and "Intel" and other names on the chips and other components, then discover that iOS is actually a re-write of BSD, etc., and these are sold at a higher price than products from those same competing companies (who presumably make their products just a little bit better for themselves), it becomes obvious that Apple's popularity is due mostly to the way it presents itself -- i.e. marketing.

I don't want to belabor that point, I'm sure there are other examples we can pull if this one offends. Apple is beside the point anyways.

I try to pull out a bit whenever I can, to get a "meta" view of the situation whenever possible.

In the case of Apple, they obviously saw a market. In the case of ATS, I suspect much the same thing.

This could mean that either some topics here are starting to hit a little too close to home (i.e. the truth), or that someone sees the community here as a fertile market that they need to infiltrate. Maybe a bit of both. Either way, it's kind of a positive sign -- something here is worth the effort!

Basically, this. Hear something 100 times and it will affect your thinking, even if you initially knew it was balogna or did not agree (how many times have u opened your mind to possibilities on ATS just because of the number of threads on an issue, like chemtrails, just because of the amount of chatter?). It's influence, paid (prob. low). They troll the Internet all day posting early comments in news article comments etc. that may seem innocuous if you don't know what to look for. Often such comments distract from the seriousness of a situation (downplaying an article highlighting problems with the TSA, as a random example), or in respone to proposed legislation.

Same reason we are made to see or hear the same adverts 100 times.

edit on 12/13/2012 by AkumaStreak because: (no reason given)

Excellent point ... say it enough times and it becomes real for people. We can see and hear it every day in our interactions with the outside world. There were many times when the conversations / behaviors being carried out by others were so bizarre that I thought I'd landed in another dimension (then someone explained what the deal was -- typically some new TV show or web fad that I wasn't aware of). Amazing how deep the influence goes.