Stories of Jesus in Islamic tradition.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

Oh? What things do you refer to? PM me so as to not hijack the thread.

Let me direct you to an old thread of mine.
Christian doctrines vs scripture

Its all in how scripture is interpreted. A faulty method of interpretations leads to faulty conclusions.
The idea of Jesus being God himself is the result of faulty interpretation.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Oh? What things do you refer to? PM me so as to not hijack the thread.

Let me direct you to an old thread of mine.
Christian doctrines vs scripture

Its all in how scripture is interpreted. A faulty method of interpretations leads to faulty conclusions.
The idea of Jesus being God himself is the result of faulty interpretation.

You have one of those right. Original sin is based on faulty interpretation. The Trinity as well as Jesus dying for sins is well documented in the Bible. Your analysis of Jesus dying for the sins of all men is not based in scripture, but on what you believe to be logical. Sorry, does not fly.

Son of God. Appears 140 times.
www.blueletterbible.org...
Luke 22:70 is the most telling. It is clear in the Bible Jesus is God Himself.

1Cr 15:3
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance [fn]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
1Pe 3:18
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,
Mat 20:28 (Jesus Himself is speaking)
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
Mat 26:28 (Jesus Himself is speaking)
This is my blood of the [fn] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

There are more as well. Sorry, you are wrong.

Now that that is out of the way, we should get back on topic. How do you expect Christians to disregard older (closer to the source) writings in favor of newer writings that contradict the earliest known records of Jesus? Why should they?

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

Your analysis of Jesus dying for the sins of all men is not based in scripture, but on what you believe to be logical.

Wheres it written that scripture cannot be assessed logically?

If Christians say Jesus death was a "sin sacrifice" and the account shows us that Jesus' "death" was a Roman execution.... then clearly the Christians are interpreting scripture incorrectly.
God did not ask for a human sin sacrifice, so the idea that Jesus death was a "sin sacrifice" is refuted. This is a theology that crept in after Jesus' "death".

Son of God. Appears 140 times.

"Son of God" is just a title.
Even David and Adam are called "son of God", but we don't see Christians declaring them to be divine.
Furthermore, Jesus is also called "Son of David".... as a title.

Mat 20:28 (Jesus Himself is speaking)
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
Mat 26:28 (Jesus Himself is speaking)
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

"Ransom" is something demanded by kidnappers and nasty people who hold others against their will unjustly. Jesus giving his life as "ransom" indicates he had to pay off some cruel entity who demanded that ransom. Are Christians willing to accept that God demanded that "ransom" for sin? God Himself tells us that sins can be forgiven through prayer and repentance.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

How do you expect Christians to disregard older (closer to the source) writings in favor of newer writings that contradict the earliest known records of Jesus? Why should they?

Well, I'm just sharing the Islamic accounts of the same man... not asking anybody to disregard their bibles.

With the OP, I'm only focusing on his wisdom and words, as recorded in Islamic tradition.
I'm saying "Look at the wisdom of Jesus... look at how Jesus lived... look at how devoted Jesus was to God".

Thank you for posting this treasury of wisdom.

reply to post by Aesir26


It is interesting that followers of Islam deny the crucifixion:

"σταυρος" in Greek gematria = 777 (στ = 6)

777 is Yahweh's number. It is also associated with:
למשאות destruction (Psa 74:3);
απεκτεινατε kill (Acts 3:15)
περιεκρυβεν hide (Luke 1:24);

The cross is a 2-dimensional representation of a cube, or "hexahedron".
The hexahedron represents "earth", and "carbon".
It has 6 faces; 8 corners and 12 edges, totalling 26: the number of יהוה YHWH (Yahweh).

Corpus Hypercubus by Salvador Dali:

gogeometry.blogspot.ca...

reply to post by Aesir26

It is interesting that followers of Islam deny the crucifiction:

Its because muslims believe God saved Jesus.

Its because muslims believe Jesus was a righteous man and did not deserve the brutal death Christians say he suffered.

Its because muslims believe Jesus' prayers to be rescued were answered.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n



777 is the numerical value of σταυρός, "the cross-piece carried by criminals en route to crucifixion, to be connected to the xulon". The cross we bear; the cross that must be borne. It is a grave condition, being borne into sin: it is a matter of atomic/Adamic creatures in bondage to the physical world.

The cross itself is a 2-dimensional representation of a cube (carbon; 666).
It is also 666 as χξς: χ "cross/wound"; ξ xulon/pole,beam; ς "stigma/serpent".

777 also symbolizes the nitrogen atom. Its associated element is fire.
Out of this comes the icon of the burning cross.

Welcome the proverbial test of fire:

"Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree (xulon)". (Gal 3:13)
ἐπικατάρατος πᾶς ὁ κρεμάμενος ἐπὶ ξύλου·

"The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. “As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.“His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” (Mat 3:10-12)

John the Baptist is our first birth into the world; Jesus Christ is our rebirth from it.

“I have come to set fire to the earth, and I only wish it were already burning.” (Luke 12:49)

"He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death." (Rev 2:11)

The Anglo-Saxon Futharc character, "Nyd", pronounced, "Need" (and meaning "need") is the sign of the cross: ᚾ
It means "perseverance through hardship", "victory over the world of lack".

As in spiritual alchemy, through purification (fire) we sublimate our carnal selves and return to Spirit.
We sacrifice this world for the next.

Jesus ('a) said: "The love of this world and the next cannot come together in the heart of a believer, like water and fire in a single vessel." (Bihar al-anwar, xiv, 327)
One of the evils of this world is that the next world is not attained except by abandoning this one. So pass through this world without making it your home, and know that the root of all wrong is the love of this world. (Bihar al-anwar, xiv, 327)


This is the mystery of the cross.

Originally posted by mideast

Although your words just bring division , this man (the OP) has tried to show that the Jesus in Qur'an and the Jesus Christ , the messenger of Christian believers are the same people.

No, it's just proof that he wants to believe it.

I hope you know the history of Bible and how and who gathered it.

Yes, and it wasn't Muhammad.

And many Christian people know that Bible is not 100 % what Jesus said and how he said.

Many professed Christians aren't really Christian at all. Saying that Jesus' words in the Bible aren't accurate is only an excuse to try and fit Jesus into your religion.

+ You don't have to speak for all Christian people while you ignore these facts easily.

Likewise.

peace.

Peace.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Thats because people believe only the Bible is a source on Jesus. People either forget or deny that Jesus has a presence in Islam as well.

A presence that only Muhammad claims and other people want to believe.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Its not like Jesus in Islam said things that are out of character from Jesus in the bible, does it?

If we need to understand what kind of person Jesus was, it makes sense to study his own words as preserved in the Bible and in Islamic tradition.

Not if they contradict each other.

So, did Jesus ever say that he was coming back to live another 40 years on earth before he dies or was that purely conjecture on Muhammad's part?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Jesus did not teach anything about the trinity, him being God and him dying for the sins of mankind etc. Just because Christians extract a certain meaning out of the bible, doesn't mean Jesus said those words.

Sure he did.

Read ALL of John, chapters 10 and 14.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

God Himself tells us that sins can be forgiven through prayer and repentance.

God also told us that repentance through prayer wouldn't have been possible without Christ dying first. That's why there used to be animal sacrifices before Christ's death.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

"Teach us a deed for which Allah will love us." He said: "Detest the world and Allah will love you."

John 14:21

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 14:23

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Now go back and read John 10 & 14 again for all of his words in order to keep them.

reply to post by Deetermined

Many professed Christians aren't really Christian at all. Saying that Jesus' words in the Bible aren't accurate is only an excuse to try and fit Jesus into your religion.

Your Jesus (as an individual member of ATS) is yours and mine is mine.

Jesus is who he is.

I hope you know the history of Bible and how and who gathered it

.Yes, and it wasn't Muhammad.

What is it ? logic ? or bigotry ?

Do you want me to follow you and your way of self-righteousness ?

Do you want me to ruin this thread like you did ?

I don't know Jesus much but I do know he knew much more than you know and he wasn't a bit selfish as you are.

See ya.

reply to post by mideast

I don't know Jesus much but I do know he knew much more than you know and he wasn't a bit selfish as you are.

Then why don't you take the time to read everything he had to say in the Bible? Why do you limit yourself to only the words of Muhammad?

Edit to add: Oops, Sorry! I forgot that you live in Iran and may not have access to a Bible or the online version.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by mideast

 

I don't know Jesus much but I do know he knew much more than you know and he wasn't a bit selfish as you are.

Then why don't you take the time to read everything he had to say in the Bible? Why do you limit yourself to only the words of Muhammad?

How do you know that I haven't read it ?

I have read it and I have studied about Christianity.

+ This thread is telling us about the words of Jesus Christ(PBUH). It is not Muhammad(PBUH). Then I am listening and reading from other prophets than the prophet who taught my religion.

reply to post by mideast

Then I am listening and reading from other prophets than the prophet who taught my religion.

Glad to hear it. What other prophets are you reading/listening to?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by mideast

 

Then I am listening and reading from other prophets than the prophet who taught my religion.

Glad to hear it.

You didn't need to hear it , as I commented in this thread , it meant that I have read the OP and I cared to comment in a thread about Jesus.

What other prophets are you reading/listening to?

The prophets who were sent from the creator. The ones who I can read from them.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by mideast

 

I don't know Jesus much but I do know he knew much more than you know and he wasn't a bit selfish as you are.

Then why don't you take the time to read everything he had to say in the Bible? Why do you limit yourself to only the words of Muhammad?

"I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the (s)word of my mouth...
And out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged (s)word." Revelation

It's weird, but The Word is alive: authoritatively sourced in iconic logos and in the leaves/livres of History.