Norse Mythology part 5: Santa Claus is a rip off!

reply to post by Merriman Weir

No, but you started the thread with sun wheels/crosses. In fact, 1/2 your 1st post was about sun crosses and equating them with Odin/Woden. Where's the relevance here

To show you that the "viking gods" are older than what most believe. Most think these gods only existed with the vikings from aorund 800-1200AD. What they ignore is that the "viking period" was only the last part of a longer tradition, which is where the word paganism comes into play. The reason for this is to show that the "viking gods" are way older than Jesus.....its a matter of egg or chicken.

Originally posted by GhostyMew
Every year growing up my mother would make a cake for easter and remind me that Ostara is what "easter" is really about, not Jesus.

Which is what exactly? It doesn't appear in the Sagas or Eddas, and what we know about a heathen 'Easter' is pretty limited: Bede, Grimm and so on.

Originally posted by Mimir
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

No, but you started the thread with sun wheels/crosses. In fact, 1/2 your 1st post was about sun crosses and equating them with Odin/Woden. Where's the relevance here

To show you that the "viking gods" are older than what most believe. Most think these gods only existed with the vikings from aorund 800-1200AD. What they ignore is that the "viking period" was only the last part of a longer tradition, which is where the word paganism comes into play. The reason for this is to show that the "viking gods" are way older than Jesus.....its a matter of egg or chicken.

All Gods have a proto form, unless someone does a L Ron Hubbard or Joseph Smith. I'm not convinced that proto-Germanic beliefs really do count as 'viking' beliefs. Where do you stop and start? At this point you're basically arguing from a Pan Indo European perspective. Sun wheels and sun chariots show us that people in Northern Europe were worshipping the sun in various forms but hat's not the same as saying they were worshipping Odin or Thor or Freyr or whoever, which you appeared to be claiming. Nobody doubts that the people in Denmark, Northern Germany, Sweden and Norway were worshipping something , but just where is the proof that proto-Germanic worship equates with later periods? Wodanaz leads onto Odin, but would Odin worshippers really recognise or acknowledge a Wodanaz complex, and vice versa? This leads us to the point I made earlier: all of this was in a constant state of development and much of it regional. To lump it all together as if it was one unified religion is pretty much a nonsense.

Also, if you do want to count proto-Germanic worship towards the worship of Odin, then Christians can do the same and bring in Mithras, Osiris and so on and take back their beliefs even further. It depends how far back you want to go.

reply to post by Merriman Weir

reply to post by Mimir


Since I was a kid I have always believed that the myth of Santa Claus was part of some earlier religion and did not fit in with Christianity. After becoming interested in Germanic myths i became convinced that Santa Claus was Odin in disguise. I admit that I am not as well versed as you guys but I did read somewhere that red red and white colours indicate the use of the hallucinogenic fly agaric mushroom and not the coca cola colours because Odin was a shaman god.

reply to post by Mimir



I don't have the bandwidth to watch YouTube clips (I'm on a really low tariff on a mobile connection). Can you summarise what that clip is about?

Incidentally, it used to be common courtesy for people on ATS to actually post summaries with videos. That seems to have gone out the window over the last couple of years.

Originally posted by grumpy64
reply to post by Mimir

 

Since I was a kid I have always believed that the myth of Santa Claus was part of some earlier religion and did not fit in with Christianity. After becoming interested in Germanic myths i became convinced that Santa Claus was Odin in disguise

All religions come about this way and, as I've pointed out, even Germanic heathenism. Why begs the question, 'where does it start and stop'?

All too often 'the old religions' are presented in a way that is too 'finished' and 'comprehensive', as if all we know now, the sum total of linguistics, archaeology and so on, was happening all at once across Northern Europe - which is a nonsense. Religion was an ostensibly regional thing that saw a massive amount of development over time. It wasn't the handily packaged thing as presented by Sturluson. As it developed over time, the function of gods changed, the worship of gods changed, tribes took control of different areas and gods fell out of favour. You can see this with the role of Tyr, Tiwaz &c and the way Odin took prominence.

And what convinced you that Odin is Santa?

reply to post by Mimir


you should expand your thread to the entire pantheon of christmas gift bringers...
the Russian 'skinny santa' "Old Man Frost" for starters
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Merriman Weir


I believed that Santa was Odin for several reasons. Santa or Sinter Clas seemed to be associated with Germanic peoples and therefore must have originated from some pagan tradition. Santa's ride through the sky at Christmas seems to echo Odin's wild hunt through the sky and I have read that Odin would leave gifts for children at Yule in return for the hay and carrots they would leave for his horse/s. Although many people and deities have beards, Odin of course was the Longbeard and Santa simply must have a beard. Finally, Odin was such a highly worshipped god that there is no way his adherents were just going to let him disappear without a trace so they disguised him. Many of our fairy tales we were told as kids are echoes of the old religions- just look at Sleeping Beauty who was actually a Valkyrie who upset Odin by be being seen naked!

Originally posted by grumpy64
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

I believed that Santa was Odin for several reasons. Santa or Sinter Clas seemed to be associated with Germanic peoples and therefore must have originated from some pagan tradition.

There's a difference between 'some pagan tradition' and it being specifically Odin though.

Santa's ride through the sky at Christmas seems to echo Odin's wild hunt through the sky

Where are the rest of the riders though? Santa is one man in a sleigh pulled by animals - doesn't sound like or even look like a Wild Hunt. Further up the thread, I pointed out that Thor's chariot pulled by his goats makes for a better iconic fit for a sleigh pulled by reindeer than the Wild Hunt. Granted, Thor's chariot doesn't have the same function as the Wild Hunt (which would have been a procession of the dead or a furious war band), but then neither does Santa's sleigh ride.

and I have read that Odin would leave gifts for children at Yule in return for the hay and carrots they would leave for his horse/s.

I've read this too, but I've never seen any source for it, or any documented folklore tradition other than people saying it on the internet. I read a lot about heathenism, asatru, odinism &c online that has no sources as is basically UPG or some claim to super-secret and super-specific family tradition that's managed to continue practice 'the old ways' for 1000s of years without interruption.

Although many people and deities have beards, Odin of course was the Longbeard and Santa simply must have a beard.

Yeah, he must have a beard, but he must also be a jolly, fat man. That doesn't sound like Odin to me. Also, doesn't Santa have two eyes? What happened at Mimir's well is crucial to what and who Odin is and far more important a function than a beard.

Finally, Odin was such a highly worshipped god that there is no way his adherents were just going to let him disappear without a trace so they disguised him.

At one point, Tyr/Tiwaz/Tiw was the predominant figure in Germanic religion. How did that pan out?

Many of our fairy tales we were told as kids are echoes of the old religions- just look at Sleeping Beauty who was actually a Valkyrie who upset Odin by be being seen naked!

You need to read Volsunga saga again. She upset Odin because he didn't get his own way when she killed the man Odin favoured a fight. I doubt Odin was embarrassed or angered by a pair of tits.

the image of the modern american santa came from a coca cola ad

so yeah, he's a rip off at best

this is news ?