I want to consider here the Divine conflict and schism in the Aryan traditions of the Hindu Vedic writings and the Zoroastrian Avesta, a subject of
sprawling complexity and controversy, accordingly, the only place to start is Ireland, and the arrival there of the Tuatha de danann ,my reason being
i consider their arrival there a result of this Divine conflict.
It is God who suffered them, though He restrained them
According to Lebor Gabála Érenn, they came to Ireland "in dark clouds" and "landed on the mountains of [the] Conmaicne Rein in Connachta;
and they brought a darkness over the sun for three days and three nights". According to a later version of the story, they arrived in ships on the
coast of the Conmaicne Mara's territory (modern Connemara). They immediately burnt the ships "so that they should not think of retreating to them; and
the smoke and the mist that came from the vessels filled the neighboring land and air. Therefore it was conceived that they had arrived in clouds of
they landed with horror, with lofty deed,
in their cloud of mighty combat of spectres,
upon a mountain of Conmaicne of Connacht.
Without distinction to descerning Ireland,
Without ships, a ruthless course
the truth was not known beneath the sky of stars,
whether they were of heaven or of earth.
There is a story that they came to Ireland in flying ships but could not land as the Fomorians had set up a great energy field that they could
not penetrate. So they had to circle Ireland nine times before finding a breach in the energy field and setting down on Sliabh an Iarainn (The Iron
Mountains) in Co. Leitrim.
They prospered under their two great heroes Nuada of the Silver Arm and Lugh of the Long Arm. They were eventually defeated by the Milesians at
Teltown. As they were a magical people they decided to go underground into another dimension of space and time the entrances to which are at many
sites around Ireland; one of the most famous being Brugh na Boinne (Newgrange).
It was reputed that only iron weapons could injure them. They became like gods to the later Celtic people and were worshipped as such. They became
known as the people of the Sidhe (mounds) and there are many Faery Mounds in existence in Ireland today
The Tuatha de danann as seen had mysterious origins, a race associated with magical power and artifacts, four artifacts from the four cities they were
understood as departing from;
The Dagda's Cauldron
The Spear of Lugh
The Stone of Fal
The Sword of Light of Nuada
To understand their magical background one has to examine the tradition of the Danavas
In Vedic mythology the Danavas were a race of the Asuras.
The Danavas were the sons of Danu, who in turn was a daughter of Daksha. Danu is connected with the waters of heavens and she is probably associated
with the formless, primordial waters that existed prior to the creation. The name is connected with the PIE root *danu,"river" or "any flowing
liquid". The Danavas revolted against the Devtas under the leadership of Bali and others, but were defeated In the Rig Veda, nearly all the demons
described as being defeated by the Devas are Danavas..
In fact, the term Danu or Danava (the plural of Danu) appears to form the substratum of Indo-European identity at the base of the Hellenic,
Illyro-Venetic, Italo-Celtic, Germanic and Balto-Slavic elements. The northern Greeks were also called Danuni. Therefore, the European Aryans could
probably all be called Danavas
Danava also means a serpent or a dragon which is not only a symbol of wisdom but of power and both Vedic and ancient European lore have their good
and bad dragons or serpents
In the Rig Veda, Danu like Dasyu refers to inimical people and is generally a term of denigration The Danavas or descendants of Danu are generally
enemies of the Vedic people and their Gods. Therefore, just as the Deva-Asura or Arya-Dasyu split is reflected in the split between the Vedic Hindus
and the Persians, one can propose that the Deva-Danava split reflects another division in the Vedic people, including that between the Proto-Indian
Aryans and the Proto-European Aryans. In this process the term Danu was adopted by the Proto-Europeans and became denigrated by later Vedic people.
, “Irish epic contains many episodes of the struggle between the Children of Domnu, representing darkness and evil, and the Children of Danu,
representing light and good. Moreover, the Children of Domnu are never completely overcome or eradicated from the world. Symbolically, they are the
world. The conflict is between the ‘waters of heaven’ and the ‘world.’” The same thing could be said of the Vedic wars of Devas and Danavas
or the Puranic/Brahmana wars of Devas and Asuras.
We find then that the Danavas were the Asura, a faction in the Divine conflict of the Devas and Asura.
In general, in the earliest text, the Rigveda, the Asura preside over moral and social phenomena. Among the Asura are Varuna, the guardian of
Ṛtá, and Aryaman, the patron of marriages. Conversely, the Devas preside over natural phenomena. Among the Devas are the Ushas, whose name means
“dawn”, and Indra, the leader of the Devas. However, by the time that the Brahmana texts were written, the character of the Asura had become
In later texts, such as the Puranas and the Itihasas, the Devas are the good beings, and the Asura are the bad ones. According to the Bhagavad Gita
(16.6), all beings in the universe assume either the divine qualities (Daivi Sampad) or the material qualities (Asuri Sampad). The sixteenth chapter
of theBhagavad Gita describes the divine qualities briefly and the materialistic qualities at length. In summary, the Gita (16.4) says that the Asuric
qualities are pride, arrogance, conceit, anger, harshness, and ignorance.
Bhargava believes that, in most of the ancient hymns, the word, Asura, is always used as an adjective meaning ‘powerful’ or ‘mighty’., Indra
is described as Asura. Five times, he is said to possess asurya, and once he is said to possess asuratva. Agni has total of 12 Asura descriptions,
Varuna has 10, Mitra has eight, and Rudra has six. Bhargava gives a count of the word usage for every Vedic deity.
Moreover, Bhargava states that the word slowly assumed a negative connotation toward the end of the Rig Vedic period. The Avesta, the book of the
Zoroastrians, describes their supreme God as Ahura Mazda (compare Vedic Asura Medhira) – Mighty and Wise. .
the Sanskrit deva- derives from Indo-Iranian *dev- which in turn descends from the Proto-Indo-European (PIE) word, *deiwos, originally an adjective
meaning "celestial" or "shining"
Also deriving from PIE *deiwos, and thus cognates of deva, are Lithuanian Dievas (Latvian Dievs, Prussian Deiwas), Germanic Tiwaz (seen in English
"Tuesday") and the related Old Norse Tivar (gods), and Latin deus "god" and divus "divine", from which the English words "divine", "deity", French
"dieu", Portuguese "deus", Spanish "dios" and Italian "dio.
As seen then in the Hindu tradition the Asura enter into conflict with the Devas and are seen as the negative faction in the conflict, whereas in the
Avesta of Zoroastrianism or Mithraism this is reversed, the Asura or Ahura are the positive faction in a Dualistic conflict against the untruth of the
The term Asura is linguistically related to the Ahuras of Zoroastrianism, but has, in that religion, a different meaning. The term applies to
three deities–(Ahura Mazda, Mithra, and Apam Napat). Furthermore, there is no direct opposition between the Ahuras and the Daevas: The fundamental
opposition in Zoroastrianism is not between groups of deities but between Asha (truth) and Druj (falsehood). The relationship between the Ahuras and
Daevas is an expression of that opposition: on the one hand, the Ahuras, like all of the other Yazatas, are defenders of Asha. On the other hand, the
Daevas are, in the earliest texts, deities that are to be rejected because they are misled by “the lie”
The supposition, regarding the existence of the dichotomy between Ahuras/Asuras and Daevas/Devas in Indo-Iranian times, was discussed at length by
F.B.J. Kuiper. The dichotomy is evident in the earliest texts of either culture, though neither the Rigveda’s Asuras nor the Gathas’ Daevas are
‘demons’. However, sometimes the deities cooperate. Nevertheless, the demonisation of the Asuras in post-Rigvedic India and the demonisation of
the Daevas in Zoroastrian Iran took place “so late that the associated terms cannot be considered a feature of Indo-Iranian religious
The schism isn't an inate quality of the religions at the formative basis, but something that arose, a dispute of opinion. But to look at the actual
Listen, once more, O ruler of the Madras, to what I will say unto thee, about what happened, O lord, in the battle between the gods and the
Asuras in the days of yore!
. Between the gods and the Asuras, each desirous of vanquishing the other, there happened a great battle, O king, which had Takara for its evil
(root). . . Those Asuras then, filled with joy . . .and having settled it among themselves about the construction of the three cities [Tripura],
selected for the purpose the great Asura Maya, the celestial artificer, knowing no fatigue or decay, and worshipped by all the Daityas and Danavas.
Then Maya, of great intelligence, by the aid of his own ascetic merit, constructed the three cities . . . all in such a way as to revolve in a circle,
O lord of Earth!
hose three Daitya kings, soon assailing the three worlds with their energy, continued to dwell and reign, and began to say,—"Who is he called the
Creator?" . . . Crowned with success by means of austere penances, those enhancers of the fears of the gods sustained, O king, no diminution [sic] in
battle. Stupified then by covetousness and folly, and deprived of their senses, all of them began to shamelessly exterminate the cities and towns
established all over the universe. Filled with pride . . . the wicked Danavas ceased to show any respect for anybody.
The gods said,—"Gathering all forms that may be found in the three worlds and taking portions of each, we will, O Lord of the gods, construct a car
[vimana] of great energy for thee. It will be a large car, the handy-work of Viswakarman, designed with intelligence."—Saying this, those tigers
among the gods began the construction of that car . . . the Mind became the ground upon which that car stood, and Speech the tracks upon which it was
to proceed. Beautiful banners of various hues waved in the air. With lightning and Indra's bow [celestial weapons?] attached to it, that blazing car
gave fierce light.
Thus equipt, that car shone brilliantly, like a blazing fire in the midst of the priests officiating at a sacrifice. Beholding that car properly
equipt, the gods became filled with wonder. Seeing the energies of the entire universe united together in one place, O sire, the gods wondered, and at
last represented unto that illustrious Deity that the car was ready. After, O monarch, that best of cars had thus been constructed by the gods . . .
Sankara placed upon it his own celestial weapons . . . the gods repaired unto the Grandsire, and inclining him to grace, said these words . . . 'A car
[vimana] has been constructed by us, equipt with many wonderful weapons . . .'
Then Mahadeva, terrifying the very gods, and making the very Earth tremble, ascended that car resolutely . . . When that boon-giving Lord, that
despeller of the fears of the three worlds, thus proceeded, the entire universe, all the gods, O best of men, became exceedingly gratified . . .
having ascended the car [Sankara], set out for the Asuras . . . to the spot where the Daityas are!
When the boon-giving Brahman, having ascended the car, set out for the Asuras . . . towards that spot where triple city . . . stood, protected by the
Daityas and Danavas . . . The triple city then appeared immediately before that god of unbearable energy, that deity of fierce and indescribable form,
that warrior who was desirous of slaying the Asuras. The illustrious deity . . . sped that shaft which represented the might of the whole universe, at
the triple city. . . loud wails of woe were heard from those cities as they began to fall . . . Burning those Asuras, he threw them down into the
Western Ocean. Thus was the triple city burnt and thus were the Danavas exterminated by Maheswara
Thus in the Hindu account the Devas resort to Vimanas and the Asura get their come uppance, the Daityas are a sub-section of the Asura, the giants;
In Hinduism, the Daityas (दैत्य) are a clan or race or Asura as are the Danavas. Daityas were the children of Diti and the sage
Kashyapa. They were a race of giants who fought against the Devas because they were jealous of their Deva half-brothers. The female Daityas are
described as wearing jewelry the size of boulders
So the Cities of the Asura are destroyed,there are refugees/survivors from such, and this leads to my opening accounts of the arrival of the Tuatha de
Danu in Ireland.
It has to be said also that in the struggle between religious ideologies the followers of Asura tradition are losing quite badly also, the humbers of
those who subscribe to the Avesta is minimal, the Asura generally land upon the highest mountain and end up relegated to the deepest underground
caverns waiting to re-emerge, as in the tales of the Sidhe, or the Vara of Yima, or the Hoddmímis;
Perhaps also the Untersberg for good measure.
All in all this is something of a sketchy background, but a subject i find fascinating and there are aspects that need to be discussed which
previously haven't been, though there are aspects which have...
edit on 1-12-2012 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)