Hotel CCTV Video of 9/11 Pentagon Explosion... And NO Plane!

Originally posted by Zaphod58

Boeing Commercial, being a publicly traded company has to issue a report that shows the number of aircraft built, and the amount of money the division brought in. Somewhere in their records there would be a discrepancy about the number of aircraft built, or the amount of money brought in if they built planes just to crash them on 9/11.

Very few people know the exact amount of the classified budget and even fewer know what those classified projects are. Top Secret means something to most folks, except you perhaps? I am talking about the pentagons account keeping. Everything is compartmentalised.

As for boeing they can list revenue without necessarily giving detailed explanations. Someting like "other category" or "income from classified projects". Anything!

The military could have made special orders to boeing, or ordered conventional models and then modified the aircraft to become remote controlled at some secure location. Again anything is possible. We are not privey to such information.

All I know is that there were no commercial passenger jets impacting the twin towers. Thanks!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


And I say based on my experience (which is extensive), they were commercial airliners. One American Airlines, one United Airlines. Everything I have seen of UA175 matches up perfectly with a standard commercial 767-200 in use on that day. I haven't seen anyone able to show me anything that doesn't fit, even the so called pods, fit nicely with the construction of a Boeing 767-200.

We'll see what Boeing has to say when they reply to my email about supposedly not being able to comment on that portion of the airframe.

reply to post by Zaphod58


They could have been modified boeing cargo planes owned by the military.

The military does not disclose everything to people without the appropriate clearance.

I love the f-117a and b-2 that existed well before anyone knew them.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Of course they don't. The B-1 though didn't exist well before we know about it, it was a public program under Carter, then under Reagan. I think you're thinking B-2, although that one wasn't far along before they unveiled it. The F-117 however had been around for years. We lost a lot of folks from Pease to Tonopah to do "night/supersonic A-7 flight testing" that went to that program.

But there is nothing that I have seen to date that shows me they were military, other than speculation.

reply to post by Arken


Wow - Look Mom no damage to windows.......

Thats because they are BOMBPROOF !!!!

They are designed to resist the explosion of a truck bomb ar close range ...........

Architecturally, the designers of the huge office building also opted for the extensive use of windows. This feature helped connect workers with the outside world, and further reduced the demand for critical wartime construction materials. Along each 924' (281.6 m) exterior wall, there are approximately 400 windows, roughly 5' wide by 7' tall (1.8m � 2.1 m). Together, the lightly constructed facade and large number of windows offer little resistance to terrorist attack.

Eventually, all of the nearly 8,000 windows in the Pentagon will be replaced with fixed double-pane glass mirroring the original architecture but offering improved thermal and ultraviolet filtering properties. However, the new exterior outermost E-Ring windows facing the perimeter roadways and the innermost A-Ring windows (at the courtyard center of the complex), being the most vulnerable, will be blast resistant. The new windows are an insulated, laminated, fully-tempered assembly that is designed to absorb and resist the blast loads without shattering into small projectiles or leaving the frame as a single unit. This design meets the client criteria for translucency and energy efficiency, as well as for safety in a blast event.

Click here to learn more about this warning.

ok you 911 truthers Anwser these questions if a Plane did not hit Pentagon. Then WHERE did the Plane go where did the Crew go and WHERE did passangers go.

Originally posted by knightrider078
ok you 911 truthers Anwser these questions if a Plane did not hit Pentagon. Then WHERE did the Plane go where did the Crew go and WHERE did passangers go.

That is the question I have been wondering for these planes as well -- all of them. I tend to dismiss the phone calls made from an airplane because I have tried making phone calls from an airplane close to the ground many times. You have to be CLOSE to the ground and you get signal just before the plane lands -- in my experiences of trying.

Again to your question -- have the passenger manifestos been released? Have the surviving families of the plane that crashed into the pentagon been interviewed?

I'm sure someone has looked into this somewhere

reply to post by Philippines


The manifests, minus the hijackers names were released not long after 9/11.

As for the phone calls, most of them were made using the airphone in the back of the seat. A very expensive phone call to make, but since it uses the aircrafts communications system, no problem at any altitude.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Philippines

 

The manifests, minus the hijackers names were released not long after 9/11.

As for the phone calls, most of them were made using the airphone in the back of the seat. A very expensive phone call to make, but since it uses the aircrafts communications system, no problem at any altitude.

Thanks for this, you made me google it =D

Ok, so here is an image I found of the manifest for flight 77, which was a Boeing 757 jet flying from Dulles Virginia to Los Angeles. There were 64 people on the airplane according to this manifest:




Next, I came across this link below, which is showing that most of the passengers on the plane had very high level security clearances and were involved mostly in military-industrial work. The very strange part is that this plane was making such a long transcontinental flight with only 64 total people, out of a capacity of around 230 (plus crew). This doesn't make business sense.

Next in this link I found, Boeing says that their 757's at the time (in 2001) did not have seat phones. This gets more confusing with the fact that Barbara Olson, the woman who made the supposed calls, also has been a commentator on CNN and Fox, as well as a lawyer. She should know what she is saying.

Olson on Wikipedia: Link

So I read this article about the call, which should have been somehow made by a cell phone since the plane didn't have seat phones (which need a credit card to use, and easy to spot by any 'hijacker'):

About that call

Do you know for certain that flight 77 had seat phones and Olson was using one with a credit card?

Edit:

I forgot to add my theory, assuming a plane did not crash into the pentagon... If these 53 passengers were mostly all related to the defense/military industry, I believe this was a successful "faked death" operation, and the passengers are alive today.

reply to post by Philippines


They were early morning flights, which is why they were so empty. Airlines routinely fly fairly empty flights as a way to preposition planes for later flights. I used to fly interisland on DC-9s, 737s, and 717s, and there were times there might have been 20 people on the flight. It happens sometimes.

As far back as 1998 American had seat phones installed on their 757s. They ended AT&T service in 2002 for the air phones.

it was not a plane that hit the pentagon....more like a special weapon...


some type of cruise missile...

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Philippines

 

They were early morning flights, which is why they were so empty. Airlines routinely fly fairly empty flights as a way to preposition planes for later flights. I used to fly interisland on DC-9s, 737s, and 717s, and there were times there might have been 20 people on the flight. It happens sometimes.

As far back as 1998 American had seat phones installed on their 757s. They ended AT&T service in 2002 for the air phones.

Are you a pilot at the time (and now perhaps), and know this as a fact from personal experience, or a frequent flier?

A DC-9, 737, or 717 should not be capable to fly the transcontinental flight from Virginia to California... unless they refuel somewhere. Those kind of planes are for shorter flights and less of an impact, business wise, to fly near empty -- as they carry less fuel and have less seats than a 757 -- thus cheaper to fly.

I'm not doubting what you're saying, but from the amazing google searches, I am finding all indications that American Airlines did not have seat phones, unless the AA reps have no idea what they're talking about.

Although this email correspondence was not printed in their book, or in Morgan’s later Flight 93 Revealed, in which it is also reported,[3] they allowed me to print it in Debunking 9/11 Debunking. In reply to their letter asking whether “757s [are] fitted with phones that passengers can use,” an AA spokesman wrote: “American Airlines 757s do not have onboard phones for passenger use.” To check on the possibility that Barbara Olson might have borrowed a phone intended for crew use, they asked, “[A]re there any onboard phones at all on AA 757s, i.e., that could be used either by passengers or cabin crew?” The response was: “AA 757s do not have any onboard phones, either for passenger or crew use. Crew have other means of communication available.”

This is one Source, I can find more if you want.

Though the best source would be from the website of AA itself and some pictures from people to prove there were airphones in 2001 on 757's. Then again maybe you know from first hand experience.

reply to post by Philippines


I was a frequent flier, and I worked in an airport from 1998-2005, working security and upkeep of screening equipment. So I have lots of first hand experience with air travel.

Whatever Happened to Seat-Back Phones?
In last year's terrorist hijackings, seat-back phones played a big role: Todd Beamer's famous last words, "Let's roll," were overheard on one. Others used them to bid farewell. But on Sept. 1, AT&T Wireless' (AWE ) aviation division halted service. At its peak, it had provided phones on hundreds of American (AMR ), Alaska Air (ALK ), Northwest (NWAC ), and Southwest (LUV ) planes, and a quarter of Delta's (DAL ) fleet.
Turns out, the phones weren't being used much. People were using their cell phones instead (prior to takeoff and after landing, of course). Plus, costs were up, says AT&T Wireless spokesman Richard Blasi, who notes that the aviation division, Claircom, accounted for less than 0.05% of AT&T Wireless' revenues. American Airlines says it was averaging fewer than three calls per flight. No wonder: Calls cost $2.99, plus $7.60 per minute.
Now, some carriers can't ditch the phones fast enough. Alaska Air estimates it will save $200,000 a year in fuel costs by removing the 150 to 300 pounds of phone gear on each plane. American says it will save millions.
But Airfone, operated by Verizon Communications (VZ ), is still found on American jets that used to be TWA planes, as well as on United, Continental, US Airways, most Delta planes, and eight international carriers. Airfone's digital technology makes it cheaper: $3.99 to connect, plus $3.99 a minute. United says its passengers are using them--to the tune of 4 to 15 calls per flight--and that frequent-flier surveys show customers want them. If the price is right, that is.
www.businessweek.com...

Airline grounds in-flight phone service
American Airlines is scrapping some of those phones built into the seats of airplanes, and it's blaming it all on the popularity of cell phones. By Sam Ames Staff Writer
Published: February 6, 2002, 4:20 PM PST
American Airlines will discontinue its AT&T in-flight phone service by March 31, a spokesman for the airline said Wednesday.
"Almost since their installation in 1996, we've seen a dramatic decrease in the use of these phones," said American Airlines spokesman Todd Burke, who added that the service averages about three calls a day per aircraft.
Southwest Airlines started removing AT&T phones from its planes Aug. 1 last year.
"We've noticed with the prevalence of cell phones that passengers just weren't using the in-flight service," said Beth Harbin, a spokeswoman for Southwest, which allows passengers to make mobile phone calls until the aircraft doors close before takeoff.
The phone service on American costs $2.99 to connect a call to AT&T's land-based network and then charges $7.60 a minute, plus tax, substantially more than the cost of a cell phone call in an airport terminal.
Burke would not say when the decision was reached, only that AT&T and American jointly decided to halt the service recently.
American will stop the service by March 31 and then take steps to remove the phones from its airplanes.
The airline will keep other communication services working. Passengers on Boeing 777 and Boeing 767-300 aircraft, which mainly fly international routes, will continue to offer an in-flight phone service that connects to an orbiting satellite for a $5 connection fee and a rate of $10 a minute.
news.com.com...

Engineers at our primary Maintenance & Engineering base in Tulsa tell me that they cannot find any record that the 757 aircraft flown into the Pentagon on 9/11 had had its seatback phones deactivated by that date. An Engineering Change Order to deactivate the seatback phone system on the 757 fleet had been issued by that time... It is our contention that the seatback phones on Flight 77 were working because there is no entry in that aircraft’s records to indicate when the phones were disconnected.
John Hotard, Corporate Communications, American Airlines

www.911myths.com...

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Philippines

 

I was a frequent flier, and I worked in an airport from 1998-2005, working security and upkeep of screening equipment. So I have lots of first hand experience with air travel.

Cool, so someone is here who has working knowledge of this stuff. Did you work inside the airplanes as security, or working on the tarmac / flightline outside of the planes?

You can remember that ALL 757's you have ever boarded on your flights had seatback phones?

Whatever Happened to Seat-Back Phones?
In last year's terrorist hijackings, seat-back phones played a big role: Todd Beamer's famous last words, "Let's roll," were overheard on one. Others used them to bid farewell. But on Sept. 1, AT&T Wireless' (AWE ) aviation division halted service. At its peak, it had provided phones on hundreds of American (AMR ), Alaska Air (ALK ), Northwest (NWAC ), and Southwest (LUV ) planes, and a quarter of Delta's (DAL ) fleet.
Turns out, the phones weren't being used much. People were using their cell phones instead (prior to takeoff and after landing, of course). Plus, costs were up, says AT&T Wireless spokesman Richard Blasi, who notes that the ...
www.businessweek.com...

Thanks for sources, but I will disregard this one. The page is a conglomerate of text that doesn't make sense. Every few paragraphs the subject changes and is hard to determine what is going on.

As for this article about phones, sure, but it doesnt say anything about seatback phones on Boeing 757's.

Airline grounds in-flight phone service
American Airlines is scrapping some of those phones built into the seats of airplanes, and it's blaming it all on the popularity of cell phones. By Sam Ames Staff Writer
Published: February 6, 2002, 4:20 PM PST
American Airlines will discontinue its AT&T in-flight phone service by March 31, a spokesman for the airline said Wednesday....
....
news.com.com...

Again, no reference to which planes are affected with the removal of seatback phones, only that they removed them because people were using cell phones when they could (before takeoff and just after takeoff / before landing for seconds), speaking from my experience of trying this several times on international flights and domestic USA flights.

Engineers at our primary Maintenance & Engineering base in Tulsa tell me that they cannot find any record that the 757 aircraft flown into the Pentagon on 9/11 had had its seatback phones deactivated by that date. An Engineering Change Order to deactivate the seatback phone system on the 757 fleet had been issued by that time... It is our contention that the seatback phones on Flight 77 were working because there is no entry in that aircraft’s records to indicate when the phones were disconnected.
John Hotard, Corporate Communications, American Airlines

www.911myths.com...

Alright! Now it looks like we are going to source websites that are on either extreme - government story is true, or it is a conspiracy. This link you provided also sources your previous 2 links, which I will dismiss as not completely irrelevant, but also not evidence enough to prove that all 757s did not have seat phones.

If Barbara Olson used a seatphone, she would have had to use a credit card, while risking being spotted by the hijackers. Assuming she had a credit/debit card on her, and there was a seatphone she called with, then her credit card bill should reflect this. If she called an operator for a collect call, then there should be an operator who remembers this call.

On your last link though, 911myths, they are flat out telling the call evidence is contradictory all over the map, yet their "conclusion" is that "no counter-argument that yet stands up to close scrutiny." They don't know what numbers were even called, yet the 9/11 commission report presumes it was between the Olsons:

The records available for the phone calls from American 77 do not allow for a determination of which of four “connected calls to unknown numbers” represent the two between Barbara and Ted Olson, although the FBI and DOJ believe that all four represent communications between Barbara Olson and her husband’s office (all family members of the Flight 77 passengers and crew were canvassed to see if they had received any phone calls from the hijacked flight, and only Renee May’s parents and Ted Olson indicated that they had received such calls).

The 911myths website shows 15 minutes of time were used between 4 calls, one of which is presumed Olson, yet unknown because all of the calls say "Unknown Number". If you look at the Olson calls on the 911myths website, they think the Olson call is from a cell phone site in Coraopolis, PA. What was the altitude of the airplane at that time for a cell signal to work?

Source

reply to post by Philippines


I worked both. Some American planes had them, some didn't.

Whether you like the source page or not, the Business Week article that is linked, clearly shows that American had seat phones in 2001. As do some of the other articles that are linked. But that one source is enough to prove that they had them. GTE Airfone service started in 1984, and was quickly installed in a number of aircraft. By 1994 or so it had been used to place 15 million calls.

As for the credit card, apparently no you didn't need to have one. This was from 1994:

Claircom Communications will introduce ground-to-air calls this year.

Unlike GTE Airfone, you don't need a credit card to gain access to the phone. You can press a button to pop the phone out, dial 0 for the operator and call collect, or bill it to your calling card.

Source

From Sept 27, 2001:

GTE Airfone, a Verizon Communications subsidiary (NYSE:VZ), is temporarily discounting its air to ground phone service in the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks by dramatically lowering its rates until Oct. 6.

"We appreciate the unique challenges the airlines are facing as a result of these terrorists, and we want to help our partners in any way we can," said Airfone President Bill Pallone. "We hope these low rates provide an extra benefit to air travelers as more passengers begin to return to the sky."

The discount is already in effect, and per-minute calling rates for direct-dial domestic voice calls made from airlines using Airfone are now 99 cents. The one-time initial charge for such calls also has dropped to 99 cents.

Airfone's domestic commercial airline partners include United, Continental, Delta, USAirways, American, Midwest Express and Air Wisconsin.

newscenter.verizon.com...

Why would American be a partner if they didn't have seat phones?

The 757 came from Boeing with seat phones starting in 1998.

1998 American 757-200
www.airliners.net...

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Philippines

 

I worked both. Some American planes had them, some didn't.

Whether you like the source page or not, the Business Week article that is linked, clearly shows that American had seat phones in 2001. As do some of the other articles that are linked. But that one source is enough to prove that they had them. GTE Airfone service started in 1984, and was quickly installed in a number of aircraft. By 1994 or so it had been used to place 15 million calls.

As for the credit card, apparently no you didn't need to have one. This was from 1994:

Claircom Communications will introduce ground-to-air calls this year.

Unlike GTE Airfone, you don't need a credit card to gain access to the phone. You can press a button to pop the phone out, dial 0 for the operator and call collect, or bill it to your calling card.

Source

From Sept 27, 2001:

GTE Airfone, a Verizon Communications subsidiary (NYSE:VZ), is temporarily discounting its air to ground phone service in the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks by dramatically lowering its rates until Oct. 6.

"We appreciate the unique challenges the airlines are facing as a result of these terrorists, and we want to help our partners in any way we can," said Airfone President Bill Pallone. "We hope these low rates provide an extra benefit to air travelers as more passengers begin to return to the sky."

The discount is already in effect, and per-minute calling rates for direct-dial domestic voice calls made from airlines using Airfone are now 99 cents. The one-time initial charge for such calls also has dropped to 99 cents.

Airfone's domestic commercial airline partners include United, Continental, Delta, USAirways, American, Midwest Express and Air Wisconsin.

newscenter.verizon.com...

Why would American be a partner if they didn't have seat phones?

The 757 came from Boeing with seat phones starting in 1998.

1998 American 757-200
www.airliners.net...

edit on 11/27/2012 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)

Ok, so some planes had them and some didn't. Even if this airplane had phones, which phones did they have?

Earlier you said

As far back as 1998 American had seat phones installed on their 757s. They ended AT&T service in 2002 for the air phones.

However in this post, you say they were using GTE Airfone, which is a Verizon subsidiary. Is there a difference between AT&T and GTE Airfone, or the same company? Maybe you can clarify what I'm missing here.

Even if they could call an operator, wouldn't there be some telephone operator testimony out there about someone calling collect from a hijacked plane? Or would Barbara Olson remain calm like everything is normal for that part of the process, and then talk to her husband?

Second, there is the account of the cell phone signal record, and that none of the 4 calls from the plane have an external number attached. The 9/11 commission barely scratches the surface on these calls.

The reason I am sticking to this is because of the inconsistencies. As for me discounting your sources, I do not disagree seatphones were around at that time, I remember them too. I am casting doubt on this whole story because of inconsistencies around these calls and other inconsistencies related to planes crashing into a building and not leaving any noticeable airplane debris you will see in other airplane crashes.

reply to post by Philippines


American had both GTE and AT&T. The 1994 article says that American flew GTE, but there is a 1997 article that says they were on TWA but not American. TWA was later bought by American, giving American both AT&T and GTE service. In 2002, they dropped the AT&T service.

As for operator testimony, there were several operators that talked about speaking with passengers on the planes during the hijackings.

Good video. I tried to find the height of the fence around the pentagon with no luck but the tail of a 757 is said to be 44 feet. It would have to be an extraordinarily high fence to just see part of the tail.

Has every one forgotten this from Rumsfeld in Parade magazine (btw, I have looked at this many time and it seems to have been altered to delete the specific mention of the pentagon)

. It is a truth that a terrorist can attack any time, any place, using any technique and it's physically impossible to defend at every time and every place against every conceivable technique. Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filed with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center. The only way to deal with this problem is by taking the battle to the terrorists, wherever they are, and dealing with them.

parade magazine quote

As my memory recalls after reading this several times prior, it was something to the effect about the two planes that hit the world trade center and the missile that hit the pentagon.

Someone should research/learn the height of the fence vs the height of a 757 not including the tail. I would do it but it is beyond my capability and knowledge for the correct words. I have tried.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Philippines

 

American had both GTE and AT&T. The 1994 article says that American flew GTE, but there is a 1997 article that says they were on TWA but not American. TWA was later bought by American, giving American both AT&T and GTE service. In 2002, they dropped the AT&T service.

As for operator testimony, there were several operators that talked about speaking with passengers on the planes during the hijackings.

edit on 11/27/2012 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)

Thanks for that, it makes sense =)

I did find the operator testimony as well, and with Olson calls there is an easy to spot discrepancy between the AT&T operator and Ted Olson.

Mercy Lorenzo, also an operator with AT&T, received a call from a female passenger on flight 77 requesting to be transferred to telephone number 202514-2201. The female passenger advised the plane was being hi-jacked. Hi-jackers were ordering passengers to move to the back of the plane and were armed with guns and knives. Lorenzo indicated the pilot might not yet be aware of the take over of the plane.

Guns and Knives - Source

Next, Ted Olson is saying the following info from what his wife told him about the hijackers:

"He picked up the call from his wife and spoke for about one (1) minute. Barbara told him that her plane had been hijacked. She said they had knives and box cutters. He asked if they knew she was on the phone and she replied that they didn't. Barbara told him that they put the passengers in the back of the plane. She had been sitting in first class."

So why are there guns mentioned to the operator and not her husband? Also in a later call, Ted says his wife doesn't sound panicked. One time she called was collect, through an operator, and the next time was not a collect call, and she never says what she is calling from.

Also, in a statement from Lori Lynn Keaton, Ted's secretary, she says she got 6 to 8 calls that were from someone calling collect. Why do the phone records not show more than 4 calls?

"Keyton was working in Ted Olson's Office this morning. She is regularly called there to cover the telephones. At approximately 9:00am, she received a series of approximately six (6) to eight (8) collect telephone calls. Each of the calls was an automated collect call. There was a recording advising of the collect call and requesting she hold for an operator. A short time later another recording stated that all operators were busy, please hang up and try your call later."

In another call, Rene May Allen, flight attendant for the first class section, called her parents and said:

"Renee told her parents that the plane was being hijacked by 6 people."

The official story is that there were 5 hijackers. A similarity in the calls is that they all say they were all moved to the back of the plane.

Source

Again, this is just me, but there are many many many discrepancies here. I know it's possible to dismiss it as being inaccurate because of memory and witness testimony in general, but because of these inconsistencies I think there is something up.

To transcend all of this, I find it very odd that anything was allowed to be that close to the pentagon and not shot down, especially since the first plane struck WTC 1 at 8:28 am, and then the pentagon was hit at 9:37 am, and then the FAA orders all aircraft to be grounded at 9:40am, after the last crash.