Disclosure of the moon landing hoax.

I dont think you can fully judge the Moon hoax theory without looking at the positive qualities of moon hoax theorist themselves..they have a long tradition of existence & the community at large...

The issue here is not whether the hoax theory has any validtiy,, for if it is,, Shouldn't we blame all of ATS ?

And if,, All of ATS is too blame,, Isnt it an indictment of the educational system in general ?

I put it to you,, Isnt this an indictment of the entire american society ?

Well,, you call me what you want,, But I'm not going to sit here and listen to you bad mouth the united states of america....

originally posted by: Misinformation
I dont think you can fully judge the Moon hoax theory without looking at the positive qualities of moon hoax theorist themselves..they have a long tradition of existence & the community at large...

The issue here is not whether the hoax theory has any validtiy,, for if it is,, Shouldn't we blame all of ATS ?

And if,, All of ATS is too blame,, Isnt it an indictment of the educational system in general ?

I put it to you,, Isnt this an indictment of the entire american society ?

Well,, you call me what you want,, But I'm not going to sit here and listen to you bad mouth the united states of america....

I have look2ef at the theorists and can find few redeeming qualities. They are either liars and charlatans or gulluble peopke who have fallen for liars becausebit suits their world view. If people can't be bothered to do proper reaearch that's their problem, but don't go blaming people who can be bothered to educate themselves.

Not everyonevhere is American and as one who isn't I'm actually praising the US for its achievements. You and people like you are the ones calling your government liars and murderers .

I don't blame your education system. The fault dear Brutus lies not in our stars but in ourselves that we are underlings.

a reply to: Misinformation

The issue here is not whether the hoax theory has any validtiy,, for if it is,, Shouldn't we blame all of ATS ?
And if,, All of ATS is too blame,, Isnt it an indictment of the educational system in general ?
I put it to you,, Isnt this an indictment of the entire american society ?

If there is some sort of cover up with regard to Apollo (I argue from the viewpoint that there is) that does not mean that it was an 'evil plot' hatched by CIA/Bellcomm contractors to simulate the landings using TV networks, USIA and the media.

It could be a "good hoax" where NASA and the 24 trans-lunar humans are covering up for something much bigger, for national security, or for the security of the planet.

I am starting to see the flow of history from 1945 - 1972, in terms of nuclear weapons and the space race, as a cover up for a "good hoax" and the protection of the planet from extra-terrestrial threats, such as asteroids and E.t.'s.

This makes sense from Roswell onward. And it explains why the Russians never went further than 475km into space.

This main stream media article uses the 400,000 fallacy, ad hominem attack,

So, there are really two sides to this story, the NASA side which is… They went to the Moon. and everyone is telling the truth. OR, they never went to the Moon, and somehow 400,000 people have never, ever, ever, ever let it slip that they made a bunch of fake moon rocks, or the rockets shot up didn’t really go anywhere. It’s all a big ruse. The thought 400,000 people have managed to keep their mouths shut is definitely the more romantic perspective.

Read more: www.universetoday.com...

Adding a whole new generation of secret keepers, who now know the secret handshake and get participate in the rigging of Oscar nights.

This main stream article is terribly western biased.

The Russians, who were in a race with the Americans to be the first to set foot on the Moon, allegedly tracked the missions in horror and disappointment.

Oh Really?? Horror and disappointment? How Do We Know the Moon Landing Isn’t Fake?
by FRASER CAIN on APRIL 14, 2014
Read more: www.universetoday.com...

Oh Look. A shout out to "Phil Plait successfully brings a NASA supporting voice to this story, "

It looks like we can scratch this author off the list of journalistic credibility. Let us hope that he never gets published again.

originally posted by: SayonaraJupiter


Oh Really?? Horror and disappointment?

I would say that is a fair summary of this diary entry by Nikolai Kamanin, yes.

-------------------

DECEMBER 21, 1968

Over the past four years, the US has gone ahead of us in manned space flight, but in the Soviet Union only a few knew about it. Only today, when the Americans launched Apollo 8, will everyone be convinced that we have lost the space race.

Flying Apollo 8 to the moon - a globally historic event, is a cause for celebration for all mankind. But for us this celebration is marred by the realization of missed opportunities and regret that the men flying to the moon are not Valery Bykovsky, Pavel Popovich and Alexei Leonov, but Frank Borman, James Lovell and William Anders. Yes, the Americans are going very well, and it is clear that Apollo 8 will probably fly around the Moon, and I can not cope with it: today fills me with disgust.

-------------------


Original entry (in Russian) is at militera.lib.ru...

Translations for you:

сожаление = regret, sorrow, pity.

отвратительный = disgusting, abominable, repulsive.

Or, in other words, disappointment and horror.

originally posted by: Misinformation

The issue here is not whether the hoax theory has any validtiy,, for if it is,, Shouldn't we blame all of ATS ?

And if,, All of ATS is too blame,, Isnt it an indictment of the educational system in general ?

I put it to you,, Isnt this an indictment of the entire american society ?

Well,, you call me what you want,, But I'm not going to sit here and listen to you bad mouth the united states of america....

Who is bad mouthing the USA? You are, by claiming that your government was incapable of landing men on the moon and so decided instead to lie to its entire populace for 45 years and counting.

If anything is an indictment of the American education system, it is that half a century ago it was turning out brilliant scientists, engineers and pilots, while today, on the evidence of this forum at least, it is turning out idiots who will latch on to any hare-brained theory as long as it has an easily digestible summary available on YouTube.

a reply to: Rob48
If anything -half a century ago it was turning out brilliant scientists, engineers and pilots

that would seem to be implying that we no longer have the technology to go to the moon, & only the propaganda techniques has evolved since apollo,,,

well. either you've become a proponent of the hoax theory or you just want to continue to bad mouth the rest of society,,,

What say you should just accept that people were naive back then and were fooled by the hoax,, only then can we move forward and remove truth's protective layers ,achieving a real landing...

originally posted by: Misinformation

What say you should just accept that people were naive back then and were fooled by the hoax,, only then can we move forward and remove truth's protective layers ,achieving a real landing...

fooled by what hoax???

arent you afraid of TPTB/NASA?? couple of posts back you were very afraid to remove truth's protective layers, and now you are not?? whats going on?

originally posted by: Misinformation

a reply to: Rob48
If anything -half a century ago it was turning out brilliant scientists, engineers and pilots

that would seem to be implying that we no longer have the technology to go to the moon, & only the propaganda techniques has evolved since apollo,,,

Nope, doesn't say that.

well. either you've become a proponent of the hoax theory or you just want to continue to bad mouth the rest of society,,,

We landed on the moon. If you believe that this was a hoax and refuse to pay attention to the totally compelling, coherent and verifiable evidence that we did then you deserve bad-mouthing. If you utterly fail, despite repeated requests, to come up with any compelling, coherent and verifiable evidence that the landings were a hoax then you deserve bad-mouthing.

What say you should just accept that people were naive back then and were fooled by the hoax,, only then can we move forward and remove truth's protective layers ,achieving a real landing...

What say you stop bad-mouthing the rest of society by saying that they weren't smart enough to spot what would have been obvious - after all it's so blatantly easy to tell right?

What say you should provide some kind of actual evidence that we have been fooled by a hoax? So far all you're telling us to do is accept your say-so. You've provided nothing to support your assertion, so let's see something that proves your point.

a reply to: onebigmonkey

We landed on the moon. We landed on the moon. If you believe that this was a hoax and refuse to pay attention to the totally compelling, coherent and verifiable evidence that we did then you deserve bad-mouthing.

I certainly hope this thread does not degenerate into trash talk. The moderators allow us to keep the thread discussion going (because we are creating content for them). Sure this thread has ups and downs. If you wanna start trash talk then that is completely up to you, OBM. Take my advice, don't do it. Put the gun down. There is no need to aim your invectives at other ATS members. Take it easy. I propose a treaty.

The No Apollo Trash Talk in the Thread Treaty

For short we can call it NAT4.

In this treaty we all agree to not trash talk each other in this thread.

I will sign it first. signed SayonaraJupiter 6-11-2014

originally posted by: SayonaraJupiter

The No Apollo Trash Talk in the Thread Treaty

Will you also agree not to "trash talk" the scientists and engineers who designed the Apollo missions and built the hardware, the astronauts who risked (and in some cases lost) their lives to fly it, the many millions more scientists who accept and use the data gathered by Apollo, and the billions of ordinary people who do not subscribe to the hoax theory?

a reply to: Rob48

Do not disrupt the Community, Rob48.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

24) Right of Community Management. This is a privately owned discussion board community. TAN reserves the right to take action against any member, or member Posting, which is deemed to be devoted purely to disruption, represents behavior contrary to community building, or in cases where the content is contrary to the core ideals of the Websites. This action may include removal of your Posting and/or complete banning of your username and IP address. TAN reserves the right to eliminate or edit any content deemed inappropriate for the discussion boards, news network or any affiliated sites. TAN reserves the right to establish limits on topics that may be discussed if, in their opinion, the discussion of those topics attract an audience that is counterproductive to maintaining the ideals set forth in the Terms and Conditions of Use and the Terms and Conditions of Membership.

For too long there has been an unwelcome element in this thread... it is the counter productive element of trash talking. And you won't sign the treaty, Rob, so I must presume that your goal is the disruption of the community; I presume that you represent an ongoing, and undesirable element, to the ATS community. Do you understand the core ideals of ATS, Rob?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

We refuse to allow insults and mayhem that you'll see on many other boards. We promote productive debate and collaborative discussion. We promote the examination of any topic as long as manners are maintained. We respect our members' content and defend its credibility and their rights.

You are posting on ATS. Will you sign the treaty or not?

I believe we all signed up to T&Cs on joining ATS and if moderators feel boundaries are being crossed then they can take action as appropriate.

Inventing a 'treaty' and them castigating people for not allowing you to dictate the nsture of the thread is not in your power. It's a propaganda technique that usually elicits an image from you.

Discussing actual facts relating to Apollo will do fine for me.

a reply to: Rob48

Nikolai Kamanin

So the diary of one guy represents the whole Soviet Union during the 20 years of space race does it now?

a reply to: SayonaraJupiter

Take a look at that quote.

We refuse to allow insults and mayhem that you'll see on many other boards.

Now take a look at some of your posts in this thread.

In the very previous page you called a poster "a blasphemer and a heretic" for the mortal sin of flipping a mirror image to show the true orientation!

Get over yourself with your silly rules that you want to apply to everybody but yourself. When was the last time you posted anything actually relevant to this so-called "hoax" rather than slander and innuendo?

originally posted by: SayonaraJupiter
a reply to: Rob48

Nikolai Kamanin

So the diary of one guy represents the whole Soviet Union during the 20 years of space race does it now?

Where does that article talk about "the whole Soviet Union"? It says:

The Russians, who were in a race with the Americans to be the first to set foot on the Moon, allegedly tracked the missions in horror and disappointment.

Which Russians were in the race? Which Russians were tracking Apollo? Not the general public — they weren't even able to watch on TV. It was Kamanin and his colleagues.

originally posted by: onebigmonkey

Discussing actual facts relating to Apollo will do fine for me.

The Russians never sent humans or primates beyond 475km into space. Fact or Fiction?
Gemini 12 splashed down on Landing date November 15, 1966. Fact or Fiction?
Ten days later Howard Hughes checks into the top floor of the Desert Inn hotel in Las Vegas. He doesn't check out for 4 years.
Fact or Fiction?
Surveyor 7 lands on the moon it is Richard Nixon's birthday January 9, 1967. Fact or Fiction?

originally posted by: SayonaraJupiter
a reply to: Rob48

Nikolai Kamanin

So the diary of one guy represents the whole Soviet Union during the 20 years of space race does it now?

You have one diary entry dude. Get a grip. Name some more Russian sources who expressed "horror" when Apollo 8 went to he moon.

I think you will find it difficult to go beyond this one source that you have depended on. Name another source please.

originally posted by: SayonaraJupiter

You have one diary entry dude. Get a grip. Name some more Russian sources who expressed "horror" when Apollo 8 went to he moon.

I think you will find it difficult to go beyond this one source that you have depended on. Name another source please.

"Horror and disappointment", I think was the original quote. Alexei Leonov certainly expressed disappointment.

You were one of the cosmonauts who were getting ready for the USSR manned moon mission. But the program was closed and Americans became the first humans to walk on the moon. How did it happen?

AL: This is a big disappointment in my life, because three years were lost. The training was extremely difficult.

So we have Kamanin expressing "disgust" and "regret", and Leonov expressing "disappointment". Just as reported. Why exactly are you attaching so much importance to a throwaway line in a non-technical article, anyway? What are you trying to prove exactly?


By the way, seeing as you value Russian sources so much, you might like this quote from Leonov too:

The US is often accused of not actually going to the moon and faking the images from there. What’s your take on that?

AL: That is ignorance, total ignorance on the part of those who say so. These people don't know anything about technology. Or they just seek popularity.

So there you go. If you want to pick the cherry, you have to swallow the stone too.

a reply to: Rob48

Forgot to source the Leonov quotes: rt.com...