Why don't you believe? (@Non-Believers and Skeptics)

Its clearly preferred to ignore things and write them off, especially if whatever it is might be higher and more knowing then the Hu-man.

God forbid if there was another race out there that could think and develop itself .. lol.

Those who do not believe; dont because they have not experienced. This is the bottom line of the thread, the topic in general. Until ET comes down on Earth and shakes hands with our deceptive President.. this stuff cannot be true in reality.

Well there we have it The answer to the OP is "I dont know" or.. "I havent experienced". Or my favorite, "science hasnt figured it out yet" haha

Well thank you to those who shared and gave input. I think I have my information I needed. This thread will be history soon

Originally posted by Druscilla

Two words:

Empirical Evidence

Show us some Empirical data that any of this stuff is true, and we'll happily line up.

I think you are missing the point here. The OP knows that you skeptics are looking for hard facts and evidence. He is curious as to why you must act this way.

Correct me if I am wrong OP

reply to post by WiindWalker


Nope, he has TOLD us why we do not believe...

If you do not practise meditation or any type of mind exercises.. then your mind capabiliy and potential is shut down or "asleep" as we spiritual call it. You wont understand or experience because you dont want to go inside of yourself. This is WHY you dont believe.

Because the OP has meditated and looked inside himself he KNOWS for a FACT that aliens are real and he even has specifics about them (not just aliens btw but "multiple dimensions" and "mind power" (probably a whole host of other things too))... And because WE (the skeptics) require actual evidence and not just imagination that we are somehow intellectually inferior...

I think you missed the point, which was for the OP to troll and to tell us how special he thinks he is. Not to mention how ridiculous we are for requiring more than our imaginations as proof.

There are 2 types of skeptics:

1. Those that want to believe but require that hard evidence that has not yet been forthcoming.
2. Those that refuse to / do not want to believe.

Simon Gray, the person who started this site, was motivated to do so after reading this book.......


Cases contained therein motivate category 1 individuals to seek out further evidence - preferably physical undeniable evidence - to date that has not been forthcoming - but they are convinced that something is going on and want answers.

Category 2 individuals categorise all cases as swamp gas, Venus, Weather balloons, Chinese lanterns, CGI, rotocopters, tricks of light, mental delusions and psychological trauma - anything except a "UFO" because the evidence is not good enough or the witnesses testimony is not good enough - even if the witness is of good reputation and has higher academic qualifications than the skeptic in question.

Both categories have posted in this thread.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by WiindWalker

 

Nope, he has TOLD us why we do not believe...

If you do not practise meditation or any type of mind exercises.. then your mind capabiliy and potential is shut down or "asleep" as we spiritual call it. You wont understand or experience because you dont want to go inside of yourself. This is WHY you dont believe.

Because the OP has meditated and looked inside himself he KNOWS for a FACT that aliens are real and he even has specifics about them (not just aliens btw but "multiple dimensions" and "mind power" (probably a whole host of other things too))... And because WE (the skeptics) require actual evidence and not just imagination that we are somehow intellectually inferior...

I think you missed the point, which was for the OP to troll and to tell us how special he thinks he is. Not to mention how ridiculous we are for requiring more than our imaginations as proof.

Regardless of what he said. I am curious myself to know as to why you skeptics need to act this way?

reply to post by Sublimecraft

There are 2 types of skeptics:

1. Those that want to believe but require that hard evidence that has not yet been forthcoming.
2. Those that refuse to / do not want to believe.

That is hardly a comprehensive list. There are some who form no opinions at all until they have occasion to form them. Others hold no opinion that is not arrived at through a strict methodology. Some are quite radical and believe that all experience is delusional.

Simon Gray, the person who started this site, was motivated to do so after reading this book.......

[snip --DJW001]

Cases contained therein motivate category 1 individuals to seek out further evidence - preferably physical undeniable evidence - to date that has not been forthcoming - but they are convinced that something is going on and want answers.

The other categories simply regard the stories as just that, stories.

Category 2 individuals categorise all cases as swamp gas, Venus, Weather balloons, Chinese lanterns, CGI, rotocopters, tricks of light, mental delusions and psychological trauma - anything except a "UFO" because the evidence is not good enough or the witnesses testimony is not good enough - even if the witness is of good reputation and has higher academic qualifications than the skeptic in question.

Any genuine skeptic will tend to go with the most probable interpretation of a sighting. If there is no logical explanation, they will rightly conclude that the cause of the phenomenon is "unknown," rather than jump to the conclusion that it is an artificial craft piloted by extraterrestrials. Unknown is a much more open minded category.

Both categories have posted in this thread.

And now one of your excluded categories has chimed in.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

I don't think you understand. No-one is saying that people do not see or experience unusual things. Jumping to a conclusion that something is in a narrow category, rather than admitting it is "unknown" is close minded.

Originally posted by WiindWalker

Originally posted by Druscilla

Two words:

Empirical Evidence

Show us some Empirical data that any of this stuff is true, and we'll happily line up.

I think you are missing the point here. The OP knows that you skeptics are looking for hard facts and evidence. He is curious as to why you must act this way.

Correct me if I am wrong OP

edit on 24-11-2012 by WiindWalker because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-11-2012 by WiindWalker because: (no reason given)

Correct

Originally posted by LoveisanArt
reply to post by Druscilla

 

This is the missing point.. your judging something you have not taken a deep look into.

Enjoy your forever black-silent death Druscilla.. with a name like that its obvious your atheist

You dont believe your mind has potential, you dont believe the universe has other developing (intelligent) life out there.. ight go back to your box mind society manufactured for you

Sadly, you've mistaken me.

I've given you information I know plenty about, yet, you say I don't. Hmm. You said I couldn't quantify potential, but I have.
You've yet to quantify anything other than personal "I know what I saw" type experience.
Right.

In consideration that your disdain for University education alludes to the prospect that you've no such education, you've no frame of reference to rest any judgement or criticism regarding University accreditation, yet, you seem to have loads of authoritative opinions regarding the evils of actually learning something.

You can start at ignorance, then through education actually learn something, and have perspective between the time of ignorance and learning.
It's the difference between looking at what you believed as a child, and what you believe as an adult.
You can certainly see the perspective and remember being a child.

If you've never worked toward that education, where, instead, as you seem to display, have developed a hostile, defensive, paranoid attitude toward actual learning, you've essentially stopped your clock at a Peter Pan level of understanding of the Universe.

Granted, Peter Pan Syndrome isn't currently recognized by the World Health Organization, but, it's an interesting phenomenon as it relates to a spectrum of attitudes, many displayed prominently without reserve here on ATS, especially as it relates to hostilities toward even getting the barest of Classical Educations beyond grammar school.

Good luck with all that.

You've asked WHY many of us don't believe in (Insert unfounded, unproven, lacking in empirical evidence claim variable X here); I think you've your answer.
I think you still just don't get it, even though you've some rather thorough answers.
Don't be upset. You asked.

reply to post by WiindWalker

Regardless of what he said. I am curious myself to know as to why you skeptics need to act this way?

Just like the OP you are giving me a loaded question... "why you skeptics need to act this way"... You are implying skeptics (people that do not just believe any old story they are told) are acting in an inappropriate manner. If you think that requiring proof/evidence is inappropriate then I don't think I can help you...

I can't believe anyone would need that explained to them...

On a side note I would just like to declare to all you believers that I am in fact a real life alien... I am going to give you all a once in a lifetime opportunity to speak to me on the phone! That's right, you won't hear my voice physically with your ears but instead I will ride through the radiowave on the back of a pink unicorn and converse direct with your MIND...

All that is required is that you deposit some of your earth "money" into an earthlings bank account (of my choice) so that I can fill up my starship with pomegranate juice and fly back home...

I can provide ALL of you every proof you require, however, as YOU people are not skeptics you will require no such proof and therefore just PM me and I will provide you with all the relevant information... I look forward to seeing the bank deposits roll in, thank you...

reply to post by DJW001


Except those in the know - they are not concerned about using words like "unknown" that make them a fence-sitter.

Admiral Lord Hill-Norton, Former Chief of defence staff believes in UFOs and has taken on himself the mission of persuading Government to take seriously the notion that we are being visited by craft of extra-terrestrial origin. He pursues this with evangelical fervour through numerous PQs [Parliamentary Questions] and PEs [Parliamentary Enquires], and is something of a champion of the cause of ‘ufologists’ in this country.

link

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by LoveisanArt

Debunkers, why do you debunk? Skeptics, why are you skeptical? Non believers, what is it that you dont belive and why?
Inviting all opinions to the topic. If you are on the fence about these things, you can express that as well.

I hope this thread drags some attention, this does seem like a popular topic on ATS; its interesting to know WHY people do or do NOT believe. So please share!

~ Love is an art

No physical proof…..end of story…..

It is kind of funny that even now after all our great tech advancement over 6000 years we are still in the stage of eye witnesses and interpretations. Nothing more….well rumors and conspiracies can be added to it all.

There is physical evidence.

Spring-Heeled Jack. Lots of credible witness testimony and physical evidence of his attacks.
en.wikipedia.org...

This sort of case is rare, as entities are non-physical (and rarely manifest in a physical way.) There have been many cases, such as investigated by Ed and Lorraine Warren and others, where victims have been physically harmed by such beings. Also, many pictures, videos and audio recordings have been taken over the years by many researchers (and victims.) This is all that any researcher could possibly do. What else would you expect? This is the point to the OP; it seems that you have to see it for yourself in order to believe. All the evidence that is humanly possible to gather, and no matter how many witnesses see the same exact thing, no matter how credible they are, it is never enough to satisfy you.

Is this truly a fair and honest approach to the truth? Asking for physical evidence of transparent, non-corporeal life forms is like asking for physical evidence of Pluto. All we have to go on are pictures and the word of those who have witnessed it through a telescope. How is this any different than pictures of ghosts, UFO's and other phenomena and the testimony of those who have witnessed these things?

Honestly, is this about honesty, or is it about comfortable answers? I don't mean to sound negative here, but I am honestly wondering how many skeptics really want to know (or acknowledge) the truth.

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by WiindWalker

 

Nope, he has TOLD us why we do not believe...

If you do not practise meditation or any type of mind exercises.. then your mind capabiliy and potential is shut down or "asleep" as we spiritual call it. You wont understand or experience because you dont want to go inside of yourself. This is WHY you dont believe.

Because the OP has meditated and looked inside himself he KNOWS for a FACT that aliens are real and he even has specifics about them (not just aliens btw but "multiple dimensions" and "mind power" (probably a whole host of other things too))... And because WE (the skeptics) require actual evidence and not just imagination that we are somehow intellectually inferior...

I think you missed the point, which was for the OP to troll and to tell us how special he thinks he is. Not to mention how ridiculous we are for requiring more than our imaginations as proof.

You took that out of context.. understandably I might say.

Its not about being special or magical or whatever Hu-man word you wanna throw at me.. I already stated I believe we all have the same potential, but our paths are different. If one diciplines and exercises the mind, ones perception of reality changes.

Within this mental development, I do believe one can perceive thing that are not of the known light spectrum that we can see with our two 3D eyes.. we call it the "third eye" or "mind's eye". This is shutdown in most people today due to their ever so busy lifestyle from childhood to adult to death. They never took the 'time' to exercise and develop their 'Mind-muscles'.

This is what I mainly BELIEVE when it comes to non believers of this nature. They are too busy focusing on the physical part of their Hu-man experience, ignoring the mind and anything beyond Earth that science hasnt shown us

Life makes more sense when you stop judging it so much, and you actually experience it. Life is not just what you observe and act in the physical realm.. its also what goes on in your mind and heart while you auto pilot your life away. We call it the subconscious mind:

sub·con·scious/ˌsəbˈkänSHəs/
Adjective:
Of or concerning the part of the mind of which one is not fully aware but which influences one's actions and feelings.

It goes to show how much we really know about OURselves, let alone other life forms in creation. The mind is a mysterious thing, we all have experiences in our head that "dont make sense" .. but according to who? The guy in the suit with a degree in psychology? uhhkaaay I wont take his word for it, everything he knows came out of a book, photocopied and stored into the mind. Until he had enough information to make a career out of it..

Has he experimented with his own mind? Observed the observer?

If I were an elite controlling the World; I would want peoples mind to be numb and their bodies to become routine and slave to my system. Once their perception is occupied and their life is assembled within society, they are under my level. They are operating lower then me; falling for my idea and becoming slave to the mind.

I think most of you will understand that at least... now look at yourself and ask yourself if there more to your thoughts and your mind then you currently understand. Now wonder what that could be.. Do I know reality enough to stand to the fact that ETs do not exist?

People need to slow down in life. Pay more attention to their thoughts, feelings. Be more in the moment then thinking about tomorrow, yesterday, next month, 2012, when I turn 30... people need to balance their life; mentally, physically.. this to me is what being spiritual is all about. What being alive is about. Knowing yourself on the INside, and your outside.

Your personality is nothing more then routine thoughts and habits. Based on your 5 sense perception. When you close your eyes and silence your mind; suddenly you do not have a personality. You just are aware that you are aware of existing. You are no name or person particular until you come back to your body (hence personality).

Are we not yet false for assuming there is no Extraterrestrial life or parrallel realities.. when we do not fully understand ourselves? Ignorance is BLISS!

Originally posted by LoneCloudHopper2

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by LoveisanArt

Debunkers, why do you debunk? Skeptics, why are you skeptical? Non believers, what is it that you dont belive and why?
Inviting all opinions to the topic. If you are on the fence about these things, you can express that as well.

I hope this thread drags some attention, this does seem like a popular topic on ATS; its interesting to know WHY people do or do NOT believe. So please share!

~ Love is an art

No physical proof…..end of story…..

It is kind of funny that even now after all our great tech advancement over 6000 years we are still in the stage of eye witnesses and interpretations. Nothing more….well rumors and conspiracies can be added to it all.

There is physical evidence.

Spring-Heeled Jack. Lots of credible witness testimony and physical evidence of his attacks.
en.wikipedia.org...

This sort of case is rare, as entities are non-physical (and rarely manifest in a physical way.) There have been many cases, such as investigated by Ed and Lorraine Warren and others, where victims have been physically harmed by such beings. Also, many pictures, videos and audio recordings have been taken over the years by many researchers (and victims.) This is all that any researcher could possibly do. What else would you expect? This is the point to the OP; it seems that you have to see it for yourself in order to believe. All the evidence that is humanly possible to gather, and no matter how many witnesses see the same exact thing, no matter how credible they are, it is never enough to satisfy you.

Is this truly a fair and honest approach to the truth? Asking for physical evidence of transparent, corporeal life forms is like asking for physical evidence of Pluto. All we have to go on are pictures and the word of those who have witnessed it through a telescope. How is this any different than pictures of ghosts, UFO's and other phenomena and the testimony of those who have witnessed these things?

Honestly, is this about honesty, or is it about comfortable answers? I don't mean to sound negative here, but I am honestly wondering how many skeptics really want to know (or acknowledge) the truth.

Yes, finally a ripe apple !

You do understand exactly what it is Im talking about.. its not about a personal belief; its about understanding out TRUE nature, to understand reality. Because reality is as broad as the individual likes it to be.

I was talking to my partner about all of this the other day; and I told her this exact thing "all this truely comes down to is honesty. Is humanity honest with eachother, with themselves?" .. When we take the dive to go inside of our selves, control our thoughts, our minds, our emotions, and explore what is unknown and foreign to us.. this is when we get to understand who we are more.

One thing meditation and controlling my thoughts (two practises) has taught me as an individual; is that we are more then limbs and a body with a mask on. It shows me that society isl ogically driven.. things cant exist unless my 5 sense tell me it does..:

Ive experienced things beyond the 5 senses, within my mind and feelings.. which probably can be measured, but the visuals and the perception cannot be experienced by outside instruments. Only within the mind can such things be experienced..but who is willing to find out? Only those who are more dedicated to their selves, then their fabrications and ideas of reality... Everyone else plays autopilt > death

reply to post by LoveisanArt

Are we not yet false for assuming there is no Extraterrestrial life or parrallel realities.. when we do not fully understand ourselves? Ignorance is BLISS!

This is the only relevant part of your entire post, so it is the only thing I can reply to, the rest is mere back tracking and justification...

So are we false for assuming there are no ET's or parallel realities? Firstly YOU are ASSUMING people think like that, it doesn't make it so... In fact I have already clearly stated that due to the vastness of space that it is logical to think that there is a strong possibility of life on other planets... I still can't state it as fact as there is of yet, no evidence but the chances are really high...

Secondly you miss the point... You NEED proof to accept something as fact, that is the end of the story... If it is not then why haven't you PM'ed me yet? We do this because otherwise ALL people would HAVE to believe ALL stories until we could prove them false! That is a complete waste of resources! That is why the burden of proof lays with the person that makes a claim!

reply to post by Druscilla


Yes perception changes when you "grow up". But what is "growing up"? Ill tell you what its NOT; growing up is not - when your body gets bigger and you successfully paid the university enough money and wasted enough years of your life to have a career.

That is societies version of growing up. Outside of society you are nothing but mammal and mind baby In this reality, your perception is not heavily impacted by societies 5 sensory raping. You are always in control of you life, your thoughts, your emotions; you do not live on autopilot outside of society.

There is no doubt our minds have different capabilties; I've experienced them, psychics/mediums use them on a daily basis, millions practise mental skills and abilities everyday. Society does not care about it as it has money to make, families to take care of and things to occupy thier minds...

So how can one who does not have full control of the mind, of their self, claim what exists outside of the known existence and what does not?
No one has answered this honestly, just rebounded the questions back to me, said a few sarcastic things.. as an INDIVIDUAL - why cant you or dont you believe.

It all comes down to honesty with thy self Druscilla does not sound like an honest name

It's amazing that any educated person doesn't believe in et's visiting the Earth.

reply to post by LoveisanArt


I've experienced things beyond the five senses too. I've learned, through experience, for myself, that reality is not what we think it is. I always say "truth is in your heart", because that is the only place you can truly find it. I think, as a race, our whole perspective on reality is illusionary. Everything is basically just energy. What is 'real' is just what our senses tell us is real. Even the Six Sense is likely not showing us the full reality either, only that there is more than the other five senses are telling us. Knowing what is true comes down to being true-hearted, accepting what you know to be true and what you don't.

Adversely, I try to be understanding of those who don't experience and are trying to make sense of these things from an outside view. Being skeptical is one thing, but when you set the bar so high that it cannot be reached (given the very nature of the spiritual,) logic dictates that it will never be proven. If one is honest, he/she would know the very moment that they set the bar that the truth will never reach it.

I would ask a skeptic to imagine that a son or other beloved relative claims that he saw a woman murdered but when you follow him to the spot, there is no physical evidence. Do you assume him to be lying or delusional? What if he is both honest and not delusional? Again, honesty will point you in the right direction. There may be no answers to be found, but if you are dishonest with what you do know to be true, your view will be false.

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by LoveisanArt

 

Are we not yet false for assuming there is no Extraterrestrial life or parrallel realities.. when we do not fully understand ourselves? Ignorance is BLISS!

This is the only relevant part of your entire post, so it is the only thing I can reply to, the rest is mere back tracking and justification...

Firstly YOU are ASSUMING people think like that, it doesn't make it so...

Yea read the title and the OP, I was asking non believers to come, and this is who I'm referring too


In fact I have already clearly stated that due to the vastness of space that it is logical to think that there is a strong possibility of life on other planets... I still can't state it as fact as there is of yet, no evidence but the chances are really high...


Okay princess your not the center of attention here, I didnt zero in on your one posty there, must of missed it..


Secondly you miss the point... You NEED proof to accept something as fact, that is the end of the story... If it is not then why haven't you PM'ed me yet? We do this because otherwise ALL people would HAVE to believe ALL stories until we could prove them false! That is a complete waste of resources! That is why the burden of proof lays with the person that makes a claim!


Thank you Dr.Obvious. Yea along the thread I made a point that instruments cannot measure the mind and emotions, or perception. How do I need proof that I've perceived an alien (many times too) within my minds eye? How do I give you evidence of the 26 moments I witnessed spacecraft?
Well its in my memory bank deep within my mind! Wanna grab your science and go get it out for evidence?

.. I do filter what I read and what I listen to in regards to knowledge. My spiritual path is finding knowledge within and references from the outside (people, internet, libraries etc..) So I dont believe everything that comes to the table. This is what you fail to realize. I am skeptic in nature; but I do not claim what exists without experiencing it or not.

I know many here on ATS, maybe even reading this thread but staying away from commenting.. have experienced aliens, seen beings within their minds, or have had a perfect moment sighting a starship.