Why don't you believe? (@Non-Believers and Skeptics)

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posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by LoveisanArt
 


In my opinion you had no intention of any real exchange of information or open minded discussion of these issues. You started this thread to troll skeptics and to give yourself an opportunity to claim superiority. I don't see any difference between this and whatever negative behavior you are accusing skeptics of.




posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 11:46 PM
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Originally posted by JamesofOz
It's amazing that any educated person doesn't believe in et's visiting the Earth.


One of your few posts; and probably one of the wisest you will have



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 11:58 PM
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I totally understand the skeptics POV, I was one too until I saw a UFO for myself. I guess it could have been human, but it would have to be tech so much more advanced than what we are led to believe the human race is capable of. With trillions funneled into secret programs for over a century I guess it could be possible. Either way, there is some really crazy shizz happening here on Earth. When I combine what I know exists today with many of the ancients' stories and beliefs, I find the ET (or even demon) theories to be more plausible than humans.
edit on 25-11-2012 by OMsk3ptic because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 12:08 AM
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reply to post by LoveisanArt
 


A silly, immature, unnecessarily long post, and you couldn't handle the truth as your thinking is narrow. Not worth a reply beyond these words.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 12:14 AM
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I can understand why some people don't believe.

I have always taken credible witness accounts as a proof, until 2005 when I saw my very own, very real UFO. It was not just an orb of light. And like the poster above me said, as I just read, it was way, way, WAY further ahead of us, tech wise, than you could believe without seeing it.

However, as much as I would like to say it's "aliens", I know there is no physical evidence, so I am skeptical still about who is driving those UFOs.

Some of those skeptics, non-believers, will see their own UFO one day (10% or so roughly) and then they will have more questions than answers.

UFOs are real. There are bigger things in this world than what we "know", that is the truth.

edit on 25-11-2012 by smilesmcgee because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 12:14 AM
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I consider myself a skeptic, as a skeptic it is not that i am unwilling to believe,
I apply the same rules to this as i do religion, show me sound evidence that
what you (just an example, i don't mean you're suggesting anything) are claiming
and if that evidence convinces me then i would believe you.

The problem we have run into is one very similar in many ways to religion,
i would love to believe that the claims are true, i also see the merit in those
claims so far as the possibility of there being other life in our galaxy, it may
even be close on galactic terms, however having said that, i still do not see
evidence worthy of belief that we have been visited.

I think one of the fundamental flaws that you see in discussions such as
these is that one side wont be happy until the other admits they share
their view, but i think its perfectly valid to simply be open to the evidence
and wait to decide we believe for sure until we are given ample reason to
believe, it really comes down to the fact that i would like to have as many
true beliefs as possible.

there is nothing wrong with speculation but don't take it as fact or evidence
until there is good reason to do so.

I would also like to address this issue of skepticism being fueled by fear,
this is a fallacy, i do not fear the idea of aliens or even other unexplained
things, i merely do not see evidence enough to accept them as fact,
asking for evidence before you believe something is not fear, it is prudent,
we do not simply accept claims based on rough evidence that cant be
recreated or tested, if we were to do that then pixies and faeries or anything
ridiculous could be considered on equal footing to thing we can prove
through evidence and then the truth could never be weeded out from
incorrect belief.

being prudent in your acceptance of what others tell you is how you survive
in this world, if someone tells you that jumping off a cliff wont kill you, would
you ask for evidence or just jump?
edit on 25-11-2012 by bloodreviara because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 12:16 AM
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Skepticism is the product of one's fear of the reality of something that one would rather not face.

I have seen a 'Flying Saucer'. Not a Light/Dot/Speck/&etc but a classic 'Flying Saucer'.

My own Dear Sainted Mother brushed me off saying she would have to see it with her own eyes.

This from a Woman who has had many later validated premonitions & who had witnessed the same in her own Mother.

It seems that the concept of an "Alien Lifeform' is too far beyond the comfort zone of many People.

And why not? They may be far smarter than we but are they wiser?

Do they experience emotion as we do? Or are they emotionless biological automatons who would rip our limbs off to watch us squirm like a young Boy rips the wings off flying ants?

Or... ?



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 12:33 AM
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reply to post by LoveisanArt
 


Most people will dismiss the notion of aliens, even after hearing of countless testimonies to their existence, because it doesn't fit into their world view. Their skepticism is a defense mechanism of the brain called cognitive dissonance.

Those who do not dismiss the evidence, forthright, will use their confirmation biased evidence to try to debunk or deflect others' evidence, because they desire self-affirmation.

In short: They suffer from a psychological defect that everyone, or most everyone, suffers from.

And for the record, I think most aliens are fallen angels, and you are being fooled by them - but I'll save that for another topic.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 01:12 AM
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reply to post by Bleeeeep
 


So people are dismissing the irrefutable existence of aliens because of cognitive dissonance.

But, oh, by the way, they're actually fallen angels and not aliens in the first place.

And the cognitive dissonance explanation can go both ways.

Someone perceives something that their rational mind tells them can't exist so they are forced to adopt a supernatural explanation rather than admit their perception and mental functioning may be flawed.
edit on 25-11-2012 by DelMarvel because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 01:32 AM
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Originally posted by The Shrike
A silly, immature, unnecessarily long post, and you couldn't handle the truth as your thinking is narrow. Not worth a reply beyond these words.

You.... you are awesome!

You've got an amazing face, did anyone ever tell you that?

THAT is a fantastic tux, it REALLY flatters you...





posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 01:33 AM
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reply to post by DelMarvel
 


There is really no such thing as irrefutable evidence, nor can everything be peer reviewed. In fact, everything that we accept as truth has literally been taken on faith. You want to disbelieve and/or mock testimony that stands against your world view; well that's your prerogative, and your cross to bare.

ETA:
Since you edited your post to add:



Someone perceives something that their rational mind tells them can't exist so they are forced to adopt a supernatural explanation rather than admit their perception and mental functioning may be flawed.


I am not denying that I view aliens with a comfirmation bias and that I show signs of clear cognitive dissonance, inh regards to all of them being from another planet, but I also do not deny their existence, and deflect questions on the matter of their existence. In regards to aliens existence, which is what the OP is about, I do not exhibit signs of cognitive dissonance.
edit on 11/25/2012 by Bleeeeep because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 01:42 AM
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reply to post by LoveisanArt
 


I think most people who do not "Believe" that we are being contacted by other (Various) intelligent life forms - is because they have entered the field through discrediting means. Many charlatans and hoaxes, so many it is very difficult to decipher fact from fantasy.... If not impossible on almost all fronts.

I've seen what I've seen, and I don't presume to "know" what I saw either. My beliefs are pretty loose, I am willing to alter them based on evidence and experiences. In this stage in my life, I can confidently say I believe we are being contacted by something intelligent.
But the rest is speculation.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by LoveisanArt
 


Most people will dismiss the notion of aliens, even after hearing of countless testimonies to their existence, because it doesn't fit into their world view. Their skepticism is a defense mechanism of the brain called cognitive dissonance.

Those who do not dismiss the evidence, forthright, will use their confirmation biased evidence to try to debunk or deflect others' evidence, because they desire self-affirmation.

In short: They suffer from a psychological defect that everyone, or most everyone, suffers from.

And for the record, I think most aliens are fallen angels, and you are being fooled by them - but I'll save that for another topic.


Wait.
What?

Cognitive Dissonance requires you to hold two opposing views at equal value.

If you want to talk Psychology, I suggest you looking into Grandiosity, Dissociative disorder, Delusional Disorder, Paranoia, and Schizotypy to name a few elements quite common among any sort of believer demographic whether we're speaking UFOs, Religion, or any other topic that commonly attracts a following of adherents who commonly rely more on faith than any real evidence.

The problem with such adherents to topical matter requiring more faith in absence of a physical foundation is that this faith requires a huge ordeal of rationalization, and speculation that over time gives birth to whole hosts of fantasy that with sympathetic faith fueled subconscious collusion aided by memetic self propagating reinforcement (the idea is a catchy tune) the ideas and speculations then evolve from speculation and fantasy into statements of 'truth'.
Believe it long enough, and infect others with that same belief, you've got yourself a 'truth', regardless its actuality or non-actuality.

Such is how fantasies become "true". Certain people want something to be true so badly, when someone comes along and says so, they then parrot the idea so often where if the idea is indeed a catchy tune, the idea spreads and then becomes "true", but only in the sense of being "true" through the strength of belief of its adherents.

Classical cult mentality is often brought about through such mechanism supplied by a leading personality. Where it comes to the UFOlogy circus, there's a number of personalities clamoring for attention to pass on whatever "truth" they're selling.

None of this has any foundation in reality.
However, part of the defense mechanism built into this whole fantasy network is to ridicule actual reality, and any other competing idea that could undermine the amazing fantastic special-ness of whatever ideology or belief is campaigning for followers.

All these fantasies and ideas compete and through memetic competition and natural selection they have to be THE idea, THE truth, and the ONLY ONE.
You may want to take a look at the evolution of a Meme (not just some picture with a catchy phrase on it).
This is one of the reasons why there's such hostility from the believer camp of any ideology, especially where, a competing ideology is perceived a threat

Science, on the other hand, doesn't require all this cult behavior. Science requires something that can be figuratively poked at with a stick, whether that stick is math, a super collider, a microscope, radio antenna, careful measurements and combinations of chemicals, or any other number of other means.
Observations need be repeatable so, when you say "Eureka!", other people can replicate the same steps to produce the same results, so that Eureka is heard around the world instead of a single room in a lab.

Find a new star in the sky, a comet, or some other something, take it's position, confirm its position, check its position again just to make sure, then report so that other people can confirm.
On the otherhand, if you find a new star in the sky, or some other something, and just run around in circles saying "I know what I saw", the observation is absolutely worthless because no one else can confirm it.

If it can't be confirmed/replicated your observation is essentially worthless.

Whatever the case, provide some real empirical evidence and you'll have a skeptic on your side. Provide ANY evidence contrary to a belief to a believer, and you only get a defensive believer.




edit on 25-11-2012 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 02:04 AM
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Originally posted by LoveisanArt
Im calling out all the Non-believers and skeptics personally; to understand why they do not believe in Extraterrestrial and other unknown phenomena.

Why dont you believe starships, extraterrestrial life, energy, mind power, and multiple dimensions of reality? What makes you belive these things do not exist in all of creation?

You so called skeptics and debunkers, are trying to falsify something you have not experienced or perceived; this being very intelligent alien races, technology beyond our comprehension. You judge things which you have not experienced, with what you have. If it doesnt make sense its fake.

As a skeptic has not perceived an alien or starship; it must not exist. All this skeptic knows is everything it has; seen, heard, touched, smelled, tasted or thought.. Aliens do not mingle in everyday reality with humans, therefore they do not exist ...
The "I haven't seen it, so I cant believe it" mentality.

This is why it confuses me with people who do not belive in extraterrestrial life, multiple universes/dimensions .. you delete an aspect of reality - out of your perception OF reality. Therefore you shall not experience. WHY?

We think we can explain everything, because we think we know everything there is to know. This is why aliens do not exist - we dont know about them..hmm.


You expect extraterrestrials to LAND on our planet and present themselves to humanity..??
we think we are ready for contact; we are "intelligent" and mature enough to meet with these other races..

It doesnt work that way with developing life, hu-man.

The REAL extraterrestrials would know better then that... they do not perceive reality like WE DO. Our perception is fixed based on limited knowledge and falling slave to the mind (money, religion, GOD..etc). We cannot operate on their level yet, until we break free from our mental habits.

To me, it's quite obvious they exist; they are here, they always have been.. the word 'they' in this context is referencing to countless races of extraterrestrials who exist in the unknown universe(s).

But..

I'm interested in why YOU don't believe these things exist. What is it within YOU that believes ETs, UFOs, spirits etc.. DO NOT exist? Do you dis-believe because you fear the unknown? Or because you know for a fact it's 'impossible' they can exist?

I'm sure these so called skeptics and non-believers won't even respond
that says enough for the rest of us

Like I said, I'm just curious as to what exactly it is, you think when it comes to these phenomena? Why it is you do not believe.

Debunkers, why do you debunk? Skeptics, why are you skeptical? Non believers, what is it that you dont belive and why?
Inviting all opinions to the topic. If you are on the fence about these things, you can express that as well.

I hope this thread drags some attention, this does seem like a popular topic on ATS; its interesting to know WHY people do or do NOT believe. So please share!


~ Love is an art


I believe in extraterrestrial life. I don't believe in BS (stargates in the sun, 4D Alien beings in 4D ships hovering around 4D Earth, you know, that sorta thing)



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 02:09 AM
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reply to post by Bleeeeep
 


While i agree with your assessment that evidence is not irrefutable, i disagree that
it needs to be irrefutable, your claim that everything must be taken on faith is also
not accurate, while i provided a good example above, if someone told you that
you would not die from jumping off a cliff, would you just jump and take it on faith
that they are telling the truth, or would you ask for some evidence before doing so?

evidence can be refuted but that requires evidence that actually refutes the know
facts. there again you cannot prove anything without evidence.

that fundamental issue in which one describes faith as having a legitimate claim
is just wrong, faith is the belief in something despite the lack of evidence, faith
could then be used as proof of anything one wishes to prove, evidence is the only
way to discern a lie from truth, evidence that when you jump off a cliff you are going
to be harmed is abundant therefore not questioned, but according to your belief
we take it on faith that it would harm you and we could take it on faith that it wont,
however int the real world it would harm you every time.

faith is an excuse to hold beliefs that one cannot prove true, testimony can only
serve as personal evidence, unless you have actual evidence to back up said
testimony. faith is not a necessary addition to anything at all, reasonable
expectation based on known facts is.

hence the reason most scientist agree there is most likely life out there, however
they cannot say if it has visited us as they lack the evidence to make that claim and
have it stand on its own merit. they can however offer enough evidence to suggest
life is abundant in the universe.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 02:12 AM
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Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by DelMarvel
 


There is really no such thing as irrefutable evidence, nor can everything be peer reviewed. In fact, everything that we accept as truth has literally been taken on faith.



I'm not following you there. If there is no irrefutable evidence and everything we accept as truth is taken on faith then how do you conclude that UFO skeptics are suffering from cognitive dissonance?

Originally posted by Bleeeeep

You want to disbelieve and/or mock testimony that stands against your world view; well that's your prerogative, and your cross to bare.

I'm not mocking anyone's testimony and you don't know what my world view is. I'd say the mocking of world views going on in this thread was started by the OP.




Originally posted by Bleeeeep

I am not denying that I view aliens with a comfirmation bias and that I show signs of clear cognitive dissonance, inh regards to all of them being from another planet, but I also do not deny their existence, and deflect questions on the matter of their existence. In regards to aliens existence, which is what the OP is about, I do not exhibit signs of cognitive dissonance.



I'm not sure I'm following you here either. You don't deny the existence of aliens but you think they are actually fallen angels rather than physical beings from another world as apparently defined by the OP?



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 02:29 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 02:40 AM
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reply to post by LoveisanArt
 


Your complaint of others sarcasm is ill-founded your entire OP if full of sarcasm so you invited it by opening that door.

You can color me skeptic for the simple reason that there is a lack of evidence to support claims of alien visitation. That should be sound enough reasoning for anyone. As for your question of why people feel the need to find holes in such claims and theories to debunk such claims I should point out if those holes didn’t exist then no one would be able find them.

You ask what makes a person a skeptic seems like a strange question to me. I cannot understand how someone can believe in something without evidence to support their belief. I do not take things on faith alone. I do however remain open to the possibility of the unknown. You almost have two questions that you are asking. For myself I do find it very likely that there is life elsewhere in the universe but I do not believe that life has been to earth. The idea of life existing outside of our galaxy is supported by mathematic probability the numbers are supportive in favor of such a thing. However the probability mathematically that such life has found its way here is unsupportive.

To make my statement simple I will just say there is no supporting evidence to back the claims that ET life has visited earth. I also do not believe the earth and mankind is five thousand years old or that humans and dinosaurs coexisted because scientific evidence has said otherwise.

Basically your OP is questioning why we do not have faith in such claims. Your faith in ETs is as unwavering as someone’s faith in the literal words of the bible. Sorry if that seems a bit sarcastic but if you do not want to receive sarcasm try not to write an OP full of sarcasm and you should get a different result.


I also know there are a lot of crazy people out there so taking ones word for it just doesn’t work for me. Think about the Olympic doomsayers nothing happened yet there are people out there that claim they prevented catastrophe through their awesome power of collected awareness. That is just crazy talk. I am not saying everyone who claims they have had an alien encounter is crazy but firsthand accounts of something without any empirically evidence is not credible. I think it would be great if we had little ETs running around but they are about as probable as leprechauns and there pots of gold. All things considered catching an ET would probably net you more money.

Anyway good luck with your hunt
edit on 25-11-2012 by Grimpachi because: add



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 02:47 AM
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Originally posted by DelMarvel
I'm not sure I'm following you here either. You don't deny the existence of aliens but you think they are actually fallen angels rather than physical beings from another world as apparently defined by the OP?

These things bow to one name and one name ONLY: Jesus.

THIS is why the truth concerning this is always either covered-up or attacked.

It's just one more piece of the puzzle that threatens to expose the real stealth agenda.

The evidence for this is massive but so is the propaganda.


Originally posted by Victoria Ecouter
"I had contact for years with what I thought were alien beings. The more I "believed" the more they disrupted my life. I went for months getting only a few hours of sleep a night. It got so bad that I was waking up with night terrors and things probing me for almost a month straight."

"A turning point for me occurred when I had a conversation with one of these beings. I said that it didn't have the right to do this and it replied that it did. I knew then that this was not a benign creature in any sense of the word. I was agnostic at the time. So I decided to pray to God to help me. The "abductions" and "visitations" stopped immediately"


Alien abductions halted by the name 'Jesus' why?

"It has dawned on me after 4 years of looking through this that abductee's have stopped these experience when calling upon the name of Jesus or god. These apparent inter-dimensional entities seem to vanish. WHY is this? They have never done the same under any other names or pleads? Very interesting to see how effective this is. Blows their apparent agenda and purpose out of the water. LINK


Over 100 Online Testimonies that Alien Abductions Stop and Can Be Terminated as a Life Pattern In the Name and Authority of Jesus Christ. The Most Powerful Evidence in the World Today Showing the True Nature of the Entities Behind the UFO / Alien Abduction Phenomenon LINK


Well-known UFO researcher John Weldon said, “How creditable is it to think that literally thousands of genuine extraterrestrials would fly millions of light years simply to teach new age philosophy, deny Christianity, and support the occult? And why would the entities actually possess and inhabit people just like demons do if they were really advanced extraterrestrials?”Source



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 03:19 AM
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reply to post by Murgatroid
 


How many of these people were:
a.) American
b.) Christian

to begin with?

How many stories do we hear about Hindus getting abducted?

Isn't it convenient when either a cultural, or familial mythology is voiced, the spooky boo-boo goes away?

Fact of the matter is, as I think I've stated previously:

The majority of Alien Contact reports and claims can be described and attributed to subject specific personally subjective Psychological Phenomenon experiences.

Such stance is supported by:
The Psychology of Alien Contact and Abduction Claims

The Construction of Space Alien Abduction Memories

The Ordinary Nature of Alien Abduction Memories

Memory Distortion in People Reporting Abduction by Aliens

Transcultural Psychiatry - Sleep Paralysis, Sexual Abuse, and Space Alien Abduction

as well as many other well documented citations, and papers listed in the public domain on the subject.

Further, as supported by above documentation and other studies conducted regarding the phenomenon, the majority of Alien Abduction accounts can be accounted for by Schizotypy and/or Schizotypal Personality Disorder (SPD) as well as several other classifications.

All this space alien abduction experience is entirely attributable to personal, internal, subjective experiences.
It's all in the mind.

Before you protest, read the papers.
If that's not enough, I can dig up more papers corroborating the same findings across several other studies.






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