Hostess, maker of Twinkies and Ding Dongs, says closing business

When Unions play chicken with a company with financial issues this is what happens.

Originally posted by mymymy
reply to post by NihilistSanta

 

So who cares if they all took raises but it's the actual workers who make the company want a little better standard of living's fault? So if management can give themselves a 1.5 MILLION dollar raise, somehow it's the small worker who wants an extra dollar or two an hour's fault?

Or they can pay everyone the same and have no incentive to do their jobs. Where is the incentive to start a business? Where the incentive to have workers who are more than marginally warm bodies that show up. Lets just have a giant union that represents all workers! Oh yeah they did that in Russia, Cuba, China, Vietnam, North Korea, etc. Yeah a real workers paradise let me tell ya.

reply to post by NihilistSanta


And what country did you just name where management wasn't overpaid? It's amazing how everyone blames a person making 10 dollars an hour who wants to make 15 an hour for the downfall of a company, but someone in management who makes 750,000 a year, gets a raise to 2,500,000, yet it's the unions fault for all this?

reply to post by sonnny1


Maybe so, but they at least fought for the guy, who protested the huge raise for management? Did you see the graph posted? A raise from 750,000 to 2,500,000? Nope, that could no way, EVER!!!, determine a company's outsource

Originally posted by mymymy
reply to post by NihilistSanta

 

And what country did you just name where management wasn't overpaid? It's amazing how everyone blames a person making 10 dollars an hour who wants to make 15 an hour for the downfall of a company, but someone in management who makes 750,000 a year, gets a raise to 2,500,000, yet it's the unions fault for all this?

How about when that worker becomes an integral part of the operation they can get a slice of the pie. Its not like we are talking teachers here or people who make low wages but have a degree (which has to be paid for). How easy is it to find a CEO who can make your company money? How easy is it to find a guy to squeeze cream into a Twinkie? See?

The reason for starting a business is to make a profit. Not raise the standard of living for all of the dependents you employ. Its not slavery you are free to leave any time you want and compete with all of the other cream squeezers.

Its the sense of entitlement that is killing this country on top of the political garbage we face. Everyone wants something for nothing. Everyone has their hand out but what happens when there is nothing left to hand out?

Hostess made a product. They arent bankers creating money out of nothing. This isnt the "Elite" we are talking about either. People here are trying to decide where other people should spend THEIR money. If hostess decided it was better for them in the long run to take the pay and dump the workers than the union probably couldn't have saved them either way all they did was make the decision a little easier.

reply to post by sonnny1


The Hostess employees were striking for more money...and ended up with no jobs. I am just wondering how the strikers are feeling now. I am sad that they are losing their jobs. To me this is just a lose-lose situation.

I remember has a child...sharing a package of twinkies with a friend; or the snowball cupcakes; or the chocolate cupcakes; there was always 2 to a package; so I always had one to share. In the back yard; swinging on the swings; eating our twinkies; laughing...playing...happy.

I live in Seattle; I watched the noon news today and the hostess plant here is (of course) closing. People are going to the stores and stocking up on hostess products while they are still on the shelves; some people are even talking about selling them on ebay..with a markup price of course.

reply to post by NihilistSanta


I agree, the sense of entitlement is ruining this country, but what I see that sense of entitlement is from management. Like you said, I just spent all this money on a college degree, so give me back what I paid for that. You seem to be college educated because you are defending every salaried person above the hourly, and you moan about entitlements. How many posts here on ATS have you read from people stating that they were at work do you suppose were a boon to their company ( like money well spent ), or a bane ( like why did we hire him? ) If you choose A, we know you are a part of management. or a part of the real problem. ( and Yes I am aware of the time, I am not singling you out specifically right now, but a very strong point on this site )

Maybe they should make a healthy version and maybe more people would buy them,,,totally change the company up..at first glance at the article I thought it was going to say their reason for closing was Obamas re election,,lol

Originally posted by NihilistSanta
Who cares if they got raises. Its their business. I guess if your company is in trouble you will refinance your house to do your part right? How about when they offer to fire someone at your job you offer to take a cut in pay to keep them on.

While it may be their business, based on the articles I have read one gets the impression that the employee's have been invested in the company much longer than the executives.

I do understand one of the points they are making though, years ago companies worked their employee's and their employee's children half to death for a pittance while they made a decent living off of the lives and health of their employee's.

Eventually people stood up and took notice of such disparity and minimum wage, 8 hour days (or extra pay for extra time), 6 work days with one off (unless receiving extra pay for the overtime), 1 15 minute break for every 4 hours of work and a 30 minute (minimum break) for 8 hours of work, so they can at least eat. Employee's were people and thus should be treated in a humane manner.

The fact of the matter is, the company is nothing without it's employee's as one can see with the Hostess situation. Believe me I've held careers in 3 Fortune 500 companies and the execs may carry the decisions and path the company takes on their shoulders, but it's the people down lower on the food chain doing the work producing the products, researching and creating new products and so forth that the company rests on, and from what I have seen the employee's work both physically and mentally harder than those decision makers at the top. Now imagine yourself putting those hours in physically and mentally laboring, and then being asked to take a pay cut of 8% when those decision makers aren't sucking it up?

Finally I quoted that one portion of your post to show you how much things have changed in business. The first of the 3 Fortune 500 companies I worked for was very successful, and they valued their employee's for the hard work, loyalty, reliability along with innovative and imaginative research producing new products for the company to sell, that would benefit their clients. Health care benefits, pension benefits, profit sharing, 2 weeks vacation after the first year, a day care center, a free fitness center, and you'll never believe this but after 5 years you were entitled to 45 sick days per year. (We'll never see that kind of employer/employee beneficial relationship again)

Despite how successful the company was, in the early 80's the economy went downhill and for the first time in that company's history they were forced to lay off (terminate) employee's. For the most part the decisions regarding who to let go were based on performance, but the group I was in was a bit unique, there were only 4 of us and the company was forced to reduce our group by 1, and that 1 ended up being me after the logical choice threatened to sue the company for not being diverse if they let her go to put it kindly. The other 3 members of my group, her included.....went to management and offered to each take one day a week off without pay to keep me on. Of course that didn't work out despite how generous and kind the offer was, the management did like me and within 3 months they had an opening I was suited for and they called me to let me know so I could get right back to them, I was the only one that returned from those terminations.

There was a time when hard work, reliability and loyalty were valued by corporations, and those employee's who fit the bill were equally rewarded. Both sides benefited.

reply to post by mymymy


I am not defending college educated salary men. I am defending everyone's right to own and operate a business at a profit without a hired thug being a go between. What is the difference in a union rep and an ambulance chaser? They are non producers living off the work of others.

I understand management is not entirely innocent but my point is it is their business. They run it badly they don't make profits and that's how it should be.

When I pay you x dollars to make x widgets and then one day I come in and no widgets are made and big Sal comes over to me and says he can get you making widgets again something is wrong.

I said it again and I will repeat it . Unions do not create jobs. Do they protect some high risk employees from being made to put their life on the line for company profit? Sure but they also allow untold numbers of workers to feel that if they complain enough they can have things their way. They say if Joe the widget maker makes X dollars then you should too. They create a class of employees who feel they have job security for life. They penalize hard workers by having "Seniority" based advancements.

Its not like the days with Virginia coal miners being exploited made to live in Employer run towns paid in Company Script.

at least we still have Little Debbie.....

the total number of union members was measured at 7500 roughly

This whole thing is like a mini conspiracy and I am suspicious... looking over the numbers with my friend


the owners could have pulled multiple things to stay in business...

this is fishy and I do not think everything is kosher here... Its not on the business end either... the numbers stink to high heaven...


I hope my friend succeeds here... unfortunately I think the other poster is right someone else has already spoke up and the sell of assets will go through leaving the employees with nothing

reply to post by ripcontrol


I'm kind of leaning toward a "publicity gimmick"... within a week or so, there will be news of Hostess restructuring their company and people will be going back to work... with less pay unfortunately, while the execs keep their big bonuses

They wanted in on the FreddyMac/ Automotive deals I guess

Lets take the example of Wal-mart wanting to unionize. While I don't personally like Wal-mart and I understand the job could be seen as degrading and not something to sustain a family I still recognize that every time I've been in Wal-mart I get NO SERVICE. The employees don't know anything. You are lucky if they are courteous (except the old buggy ladies they are always nice). Do you think they deserve more money because wal-mart is profitable? I don't hell Id fire half of them on the spot for standing there slack jawed while im trying to throw money at them.

Someone has convinced them though that they deserve all of this money for the hard work they do not serving customers and giving you an attitude if they have to help you.

Again Wal-mart isnt blameless and they are a greedy blood thirsty company that takes out life insurance on sick employees (look that up) but this is America and you are still allowed to make a profit. Well until next year maybe then when your roofing business makes 100k in profit you should be forced to give it to your employees or be called a dirty bourgeois pig.

oops wrong thread

The good news is Obama says hostess didn't make those Twinkies. Someone else did. So now we just have to find out who that is and get our Twinkies back.

I never thought I would be putting "Eat A Twinkie" on my bucket list. I've never had one before. Perfect opportunity, right?
I digress. 18000 jobs lost before the holidays is a depressing thought.

Hostess has been in bankruptcy since 2004. They have failed to restructure, they're gone through something ridiculous like 6 replacement CEO's, each of whom took out amazing severance packages when they left after failing to do anything to turn the company around. I wish I could blame the unions more, but I can't. The upper management failed before the unions spoke up.

reply to post by Jess117

18000 jobs lost before the holidays is a depressing thought.

Tis the season (to downsize).

Been laid off twice, Once in December and once in late November.

Has to do with annual budgeting.

Originally posted by sonnny1
Well, I am actually saddened by this. Iconic Hostess will be closing its doors, Laying off 18000 people, due to a prolonged strike, that crippled its business. No more Twinkies folks, regardless if it was bad for you.

Are they really shutting down? I've heard and read about their case and sad state of affairs, but did they finalize it? Even if they shut down, won't some clever entrepreneur just start another business and take after Hostess and their famed products? I guess what I'm saying is that I don't see a world without "twinkies" per se. What do you think?