Israel, Ishmael and Islam.

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posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 01:09 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


According to God's plan, Ishmael should never have existed. Ishmael was born because of Sarah's meddling in God's plan for salvation. If Sarah had been patient and waited on Yahveh's promise, this whole deal between the arabs, ishmaelites and israelites wouldn't be going on today and Islam wouldn't even exist. Islam exists because Ishmael was murdering bandit, a wild ass of a man "always to be in his brother's faces".

However Yahveh, being who he is, uses everything to his advantage. He even uses man's own stupidity to his advantage.




posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 




According to God's plan, Ishmael should never have existed. Ishmael was born because of Sarah's meddling in God's plan for salvation. If Sarah had been patient and waited on Yahveh's promise, this whole deal between the arabs, ishmaelites and israelites wouldn't be going on today and Islam wouldn't even exist.


You make it seem as if Sarah confounded Gods plan in some way.
Do you think God was surprised when Abraham fathered Ishmael with Hagar... or was God fully in control?
If God did not want Ishmael to be born, He could have warned Abraham not to sleep with Hagar.
God was fully in control, He allowed Ishmael to be born...even sent His angel to save him from dying from thirst..which means God willed Ishmael to live and become a nation.




Islam exists because Ishmael was murdering bandit, a wild ass of a man "always to be in his brother's faces".


Islam exists because God willed it.

You call Ishmael a "murdering bandit"... but nowhere in the bible do we read that. You are making up your own stories.

According the Bible...
-Ishmael was a son of Abraham, covered under the promise to Abraham
-He was himself blessed to become a great nation.
-He was one of the few people to have been named directly by God
-He was saved from death by God in the desert.
-God was "with" Ishmael as he was growing up.
-Ishmael reunited with his brother to bury Abraham.

Can such a man really be an enemy of the Israelites?
Only christian fundamentalists seem to think so. Their backwards logic is hardly surprising since they also support the same people who hate Jesus and see him as a false prophet.



posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by godlover25
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Of course it can be,

Repent and turn to Jesus Christ, who is the only God and is your God,

The Allah of Islam and the Quran cannot save you,

Only the Allah of the Bible and His Son Jesus can save you,

Repent, turn to Jesus;

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.

interesting sermon!
Now tell me who decided to include paul's letters into the bible? And who gave him authority to speak and make up a theology other than his self proclaimed one?
He makes Jesus pbuh before ascension and after it, look like two individuals, a prophet with a message before and just a ticket to heaven after.
Tell me how someone who knows the OT can claim that no new prophet will come when OT mentions about a prophet to come to Kedar and there's a promise to make Ishmael pbuh a great nation(sk0rpi0n has mention this in detail in his threads) left to be fulfiled at the time he wrote those letters.
It seems he was breaking away from OT and establishing his own religion.



posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 


Don't insult Yeshua by saying peace be upon Him,

God is not a prophet,

He is God.



posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 


Matthew 8:27 The men were amazed, and said, "What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?"


Do you know who can forgive men their sins, control the weather, create things ex nihilo, and heal people of diseases they've had since birth?

I know Mohammed can't,

I know God can.



posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


God has to allow adversary somehow, doesn't He?

It would be no fun for Him if everything ran perfect and smooth,

I think more and more He created this physical realm as somewhat of a "testing grounds" to see which of His creatures He'd like to dwell with Him forever in a perfected realm.



posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by godlover25
reply to post by logical7
 


Matthew 8:27 The men were amazed, and said, "What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?"


Do you know who can forgive men their sins, control the weather, create things ex nihilo, and heal people of diseases they've had since birth?

I know Mohammed can't,

I know God can.

Moses pbuh parted the sea, he is god? God does miracles through his prophets, or is that news to you?



posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 



Moses pbuh parted the sea, he is god? God does miracles through his prophets, or is that news to you?


That, and Jesus himself said he "could do nothing of his own"... implying that whatever he did, he did with the power given to him by God.



posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by godlover25
 



God has to allow adversary somehow, doesn't He?
It would be no fun for Him if everything ran perfect and smooth,


Amazing... so now this whole thing is about "fun", eh?

Nowhere in the bible does it say it was all for "fun". Sounds like you are either making up your own theology.




I think more and more He created this physical realm as somewhat of a "testing grounds" to see which of His creatures He'd like to dwell with Him forever in a perfected realm.


You "think"?

He who created death and life to test you as to which of you is best in deed - and He is the Exalted in Might, the Forgiving
-Koran 67:2


Islam, which emerged from the line of Ishmael states this directly.



edit on 19-11-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 02:04 AM
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Also, a large part of the lost Israelite tribes have been living as muslims for centuries now. These Israelite muslims are the Pashtuns of Afghanistan and Pakistan.

One of the strongest indications of the Pashtuns link to the Israelites are the glaring similarities in clan names between the two groups.
Ephraim = Afridi
Reuben = Rabbani
Asher = Ashuri
Levi = Levani
Naftali = Daftani
Gad = Gadoon
Yusufzai = sons of Joseph

Then there are several other cultural similarities between the Pashtuns and the Hebrews, which this video describes quite well.



I had made this thread a few months ago discussing the subject of Muslim Israelites.
edit on 20-11-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


We shall agree to disagree,

Allahu Akbar



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 08:32 PM
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reply to post by godlover25
 


"Agree to disagree" sounds fine.

But did you even see the video I posted?
Have you even considered that the a large number of Israelites live today as muslims?



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Israelites are the descendents of Isaac,

Ishmael is a blessed nation but he is not Gods People Israel.
edit on 21-11-2012 by godlover25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 


Moses is a prophet who never claimed to be God,

Jesus is God who claimed to be God and was/is worshiped as God



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by godlover25
reply to post by logical7
 


Moses is a prophet who never claimed to be God,

Jesus is God who claimed to be God and was/is worshiped as God

Jesus pbuh never claimed that, and just because he is worshipped doesnt make him god, people worship buddha as god, that doesnt make him that.
Can God die? Anyone who dies is not God.



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 


Ño but a human can die. Google Christ fully human fully god



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by godlover25
reply to post by logical7
 


Ño but a human can die. Google Christ fully human fully god


ya a human can die, but can a human pay for the sins of the world? Why do you say that god died. Would you now stop saying that and rather say "fully man" died. You'l agree with me that the words are used too loosely.



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 


Do you understand the history of the Religion of Abraham?

If rams and lambs were valid sacrifices for sin, why would Gods Son not be?



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by godlover25
reply to post by logical7
 


Do you understand the history of the Religion of Abraham?

If rams and lambs were valid sacrifices for sin, why would Gods Son not be?

a human sacrifice!!? and symbolic cannabalism?!!
Even if that, then a fully man was sacrificed, God cant be killed, and a man cant bear sins of whole humanity, God can. See the problem?



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 


I see problems from your perspective,

None from mine though, no.



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