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Israel, Ishmael and Islam.

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posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 01:35 AM
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Islam is often portrayed by Christian fundamentalists as a cultural / religious force that is inherently opposed to Judeo-Christian beliefs. The truth is, Islam has its roots in the religious traditions of the Bible and this is demonstrated through Islams acceptance of the Israelite prophets. Muslims acknowledge that the righteous Israelites worshiped the One they call God and so, make no issue over the ethnicity of the Israelites. Islam places religion above the racial or ethnic identity, in the sense being Israelite or Arab makes no real difference.

We know that Abraham is accepted as a father figure to both Israelites (from whom emerged Judaism and Christianity) and the Ishmaelites (from whom emerged Islam.) In this regard, Ishmael is a bit of a curious case. He is the first son of the patriarch Abraham, yet not much is recorded about Ishmael. Christian theologians are quick to dismiss Ishmael as an enemy of the Israelites. They bring up the verses about Ishmael being a wild donkey of a man in order to cast Ishmael in a negative light. They also exaggerate Ishmaels childhood teasing of Isaac into some sort of a 'feud' between the brothers. From this comes the canard that Arab-Jewish rivalry goes back to thousands of years

The Ishmaelites/Kedarites mentioned in the bible, sometimes in a negative light, only refer to the (paganized) descendants of Ishmael and NOT the muslims who they would become much later, after Mohammads arrival. Furthermore, there is nothing in the bible that shows that Ishmael and Isaac were enemies. On the contrary, the brothers reunited for Abrahams funeral.

Another method Christian fundamentalists use to discount Ishmael is to point out that Isaac was chosen over Ishmael, to produce the messiah. This is a non-issue because Muslims accept Jesus, an Israelite as the messiah. In fact, Islam teaches that the Israelites were favored by God.

And thus will your Lord choose you and teach you the interpretation of sayings and make His favor complete to you and to the children of Yaqoub, as He made it complete before to your fathers, Ibrahim and Ishaq; surely your Lord is Knowing, Wise.
-Koran 12:6


O children of Israel! call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and that I made you excel the nations.
-Koran 2:47


With that said, Isaac being chosen for something does not mean Ishmael was cursed, as taught by Christian fundamentalists attempting to belittle Ishmael. The truth is that Ishmael was a son of Abraham, covered under the promise to Abraham and was himself blessed to become a great nation. He was one of the few people to have been named directly by God and was saved from death by God in the desert. Furthermore, God was "with" Ishmael as he was growing up. Can such a man really be an enemy of the Israelite? Only in the minds of Christian fundamentalists bent on vilifying Ishmael.

Given how Ishmaels bloodlines ultimately led to the "great nation" that made way for the arrival of Mohammad, it can be said that Ishmael had a prophetic role to play as well. This is confirmed by Isaiah 42's prediction of a certain servant of God operating in Kedar and the "wilderness". Detailed thread here

The wilderness which Ishmael was sent to was meant for great things, as it went on to become the land of Islams origin. Its important to understand that the 'wilderness' was never isolated from biblical events, but in fact was very much part of the geographical region in which biblical events took place. The first example which comes to mind is Mount Sinai, which is located in Arabia,(as stated by Paul in Galatians 4:25). Its also known that the Israelites had a presence in what is today Arabia. (See this link)

So its not surprising that from Ishmaels bloodline, emerged a prophet who fulfilled biblical prophecy. Mohammad basically reshaped the middle east by ending Arabia's culture of idolatry and polytheism... and in its place, establishing a religion that worships the God of Abraham, acknowledges the prophets and accepts the messiahship of Jesus.


edit on 14-11-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 02:23 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Islam is often portrayed by Christian fundamentalists as a cultural / religious force that is inherently opposed to Judeo-Christian beliefs. The truth is, Islam has its roots in the religious traditions of the Bible and this is demonstrated through Islams acceptance of the Israelite prophets.


The problem is, Muslims having borrowed much of their religion from early Judeo-Christian beliefs, now feel that Islam is superior to Judaism and Christianity.

They have the final 'prophet' after all.



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 02:36 AM
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posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 02:40 AM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 



The problem is, Muslims having borrowed much of their religion from early Judeo-Christian beliefs, now feel that Islam is superior to Judaism and Christianity.


The reason Islam has a lot in common with the beliefs of Jews and Christians is because its from the same source. So it should not be surprising that a lot of Bible stories are repeated in the Koran.
Of course, fundamentalist Christians refuse to acknowledge Islam as being of God, so they claim Mohammad ripped off the religion of the Jews and Christians.

As for Islam being superior to Judaism and Christianity... Islam simply bridges the gap between Judaism and Christianity, i.e - It has the messiah AND retains the original monotheism taught by the prophets of the bible.

edit on 14-11-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 02:48 AM
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reply to post by Infernalis
 


Can you please explain how the youtube video that you posted is relevant to the theological context of the OP?
I'm not going to lose 8 minutes of going through a video to try and 'get' what you meant to say.

Also, going by the anti-Islam links in that videos description, its pretty easy to understand where the uploader is coming from.



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 03:00 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 03:05 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 03:44 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Tell me then, what good has ever come from religion and Islam besides delusion and bloodshed. Why are the religious so weak minded and childish that throughout history nothing has come from them but war and death. Tell me how peaceful your religion is as the bombs continue endlessly explode in its cradle. Discuss with me how merciful and benevolent your god is, as the world is drawn into its ancient feuds, and the death and destruction continues in its name. You really think you are doing good by spreading your ideologies here in the guise of discussion? Do you really think that religions can coexist peacefully, when since their inception they have brought nothing but violence to mankind? Why are you so blind and vacant that you need to fill that hole with islam? Why must you convince others of its validity if you have so much faith, and who are you trying to convince but yourself?



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 03:46 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Islam has a bit of a problem here though from a Jewish and Christian perspective though. It envisions itself as a replacement theology. And per Leviticus 26 a replacement theology is impossible. The God of Abraham made a legal agreement with the Israelites in the desert during the time of Moses. To break it and disown the the Jews and Israelites would be impossible for him.

However this is what's happening to them currently. 2000 years ago they triggered the curse of Malachi with the death of John the Baptist. Who Jesus Christ claimed was the Elijah the prophet. See Matthew 17 and Malachi 4. To understand how a curse works under Judaism you then need to read Leviticus 26.

But then the problem is you need to look at the declaration of the curse. See all of the book of Hosea but here is the important highlight.

Hosea 6
1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

The 3 days make no sense until you understand this bit of information.

2nd Peter 3 based on Psalms 90
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Those days are thousand year periods of time. The Israelites were hit by a major Leviticus 26 curse of 2000 years.

And this means Islam has this problem. It was given to Mohammad while this curse was active. Can Islam really be valid? Or was it just temporary? Another problem. The curse is coming to an end. Best guess it ends in the 2020s. Also Israel was attacked multiple times since 1948 and all those attacks FAILED. If Islam was valid Israel should be dead and gone at this point. It should have been stillborn in 1948.

Islam has major problems here. And here's it's worst one according to the prophesies of Genesis 48 and 49. According to the prophesies the Israelites were eventually to become a multitude of nations. And they have had 3000 years plus to do that. Essentially by now the world is filled with Israelites. And that would mean most if not all of the world's Muslims are now Israelites and under the curse of Malachi.

There's something to think about.



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 04:55 AM
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I authored a thread on a very similar topic over 7 years ago!


What is it against Ishmael

I was somewhat less knowledgeable back then (Jesse isn't a descendant of Ishmael, obviously), but most of the other information still holds up, even pointing to evidence that even the Bible supports the idea that it was Ishmael who went with Abraham during the whole sacrifice thing, rather than Isaac.
edit on 14-11-2012 by babloyi because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 06:48 AM
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reply to post by ntech
 



Islam has a bit of a problem here though from a Jewish and Christian perspective though. It envisions itself as a replacement theology. And per Leviticus 26 a replacement theology is impossible. The God of Abraham made a legal agreement with the Israelites in the desert during the time of Moses. To break it and disown the the Jews and Israelites would be impossible for him.


The only thing that Islam replaced was the culture of idolatry and polytheism that was rampant in Arabia. Islam was a separate revelation to a separate people.

The conditions of Leviticus 26 applies to the Israelites.... that if they sin against God, they will taste the punishmnent.

The Koran addresses this

Then Allah said, "It is expected, if you repent, that your Lord will have mercy upon you. But if you return to sin, We will return to punishment. And We have made Hell, for the disbelievers, a prison-bed."
-Koran 17:8



However this is what's happening to them currently. 2000 years ago they triggered the curse of Malachi with the death of John the Baptist. Who Jesus Christ claimed was the Elijah the prophet.

Israel has been accused of the crimes of killing prophets even by Jesus. They will bear the punishments for this. Not the muslims who honor the prophets.



Can Islam really be valid? Or was it just temporary? Another problem. The curse is coming to an end. Best guess it ends in the 2020s.

Isaiah 42 confirms that Islam is of God. It was the light to the gentiles.
We know the servant of God in Isaiah 42 (pertaining to Kedar) is Mohammad because no Biblical prophet was ever active in Kedar and the wilderness.... no biblical prophet had anything to do with Kedars idolaters. Isaiah 42 points directly to Mohammad.


According to the prophesies the Israelites were eventually to become a multitude of nations. And they have had 3000 years plus to do that. Essentially by now the world is filled with Israelites. And that would mean most if not all of the world's Muslims are now Israelites and under the curse of Malachi.


Well, by that logic, the "curse" would have also fallen on the apostles and the early Israelite converts to Christianity. Because some evil Jews killed John the baptist, even the early Christian church who were comprised of Jews are under the curse. Or are Christians somehow exempt from this "curse" that you speak of?


edit on 14-11-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 08:29 AM
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Islam in Bible and Gospels !



And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation-Genesis 17:20


But when the Paraclete cometh, whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceedeth from the Father, he shall give testimony of me. -John 15:26


But I tell you the truth: it is expedient to you that I go: for if I go not, the Paraclete will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. -John 16:7


But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you. -John 14:26


And I will ask the Father, and he shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you for ever. John 14:16

and what Paraclete gives as a testimony to Jesus:

And most certainly We gave Moses the Book and We sent apostles after him one after another; and We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear arguments and strengthened him with the holy spirit, What! whenever then an apostle came to you with that which your souls did not desire, you were insolent so you called some liars and some you slew. -Quran 2.87


and even more !!!

The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him. For this is what you asked of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, “Let us not hear the voice of the Lord our God nor see this great fire anymore, or we will die.” The Lord said to me: “What they say is good.I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account. But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.” You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?” If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him. -Deuteronomy 18


Jesus is not like Moses and Jesus is not from Israelites brothers but it is from themselves so who is that prophet that is like Moses and from Israelites' brother (Ishmael) !? moreover Jesus had no time to teach everything and he was approximately always alone but who is that Jesus promised Paraclete and Moses promised the prophet from Israelites brother that has thought everything !?


He said: “The LORD came from Sinai and dawned over them from Seir; he shone forth from Mount Paran(mountains around Mecca). He came with myriads(ten thousand) of holy ones from the south, from his mountain slopes.-Deuteronomy 33:2

if we accept that Sinai refers to Moses and Seir refers to Jesus but what about the Mecca mountains ! especially if we consider that Muhammed entered Mecca with it's ten thousand followers.

you are right muslims are not folowing something from Mars !



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Islam has a lot of Truth, but not the full truth,

The truth is perverted in Islam, and subsequently many men fall into extremist sects and bring about war based on extremist jihadist beliefs,

The Allah of Islam has a Son, and His name is Jesus, and Jesus is not a prophet of Allah, Jesus IS Allah!

The Quran, as I said, has much Truth in it, but it's Truth mingled with lies....

Many of Muhammed family and early followers suspected Satan-jinn were playing games with him....

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Muhammed preached a different Gospel than the Gospel of the Kingdom of Love and Heaven

Excerpts from following URL: www.jdl-uk.org...

Muhammad died in 632 A.D, After years of leading brutal campaigns to spread and indoctrinate Islam to the Arabian peninsula, In the process Muhammed personally murdered hundreds of people and ordered the deaths of thousands and to this day his orders are still being carried out by Islamic groups all over the globe, Muhammed finally died as a result of being poisoned by a captured female Jewish slave, following his bloodthirsty attack and conquest of the Jewish oasis of Khaibar. About 2 months before the attack on Khaibar, Muhammad failed in an attempt to go to Mecca. This failure resulted in the Treaty of Hudaybiyya with the Meccan's. He returned completely humiliated in the eyes of the Meccans and in the minds of his people. To lift their defeated spirit, Muhammad blatantly lied to his followers and told them that the events at Hudaybiyya were in fact a victory when it was the complete opposite, another convenient "revelation" was given to Muhammad as proof that it really was a victory (Sura 48:1) "However, Allah was not able to deliver the Meccan's goods as booty, so Muhammad told his followers that they were going to attack and plunder the weaker Jewish settlement of Khaibar"

Immediately following the conquest of Khaibar, a captured Jewish woman who was being used as a domestic slave by Muhammad and his troops, prepared a small feast for Muhammad and some of his men, Unknown to the Muslims was that she had laced a poison into the lamb (some debate that the poisoned meat was goat but that is beside the point) that was served at the meal, Muhammad then ate some of the poisoned lamb and died in agony as a result three years later.

Moses knew about his coming death (Duet 34:1-5) and Jesus knew of his future death as well (Mark 8:32, 32) Yet Muhammad was completely in the dark until he himself realized he was going to die.

Paul the apostle was bitten by a poisonous snake (Acts 28:1-6), and Paul suffered no ill effects from the bite. G-d had his hand of protection on Paul, to finish the work that Paul had laid out before him. Muhammad died so suddenly that there was confusion as to would be the next ruler of the Islamic state. To this day, that confusion still remains. The Islamic world is divided largely because of this issue (Shia vs. Sunni) Bur wouldn't Allah, who abhors any division within the Ummah, have protected Muhammad long enough to insure that his Muslim state remain unified, and a clearly defined successor be named? So were was Allah?

In the bible Jesus predicted that false prophets would make their name in the world after him and mislead many (Matthew 24:24). Muhammad was a perfect example of a false prophet that Jesus warned his followers about, Both Jesus and Moses knew G-d face to face, Muhammad had just a spirit or angel he called "Gabriel" speaking to him and In the end, even this angel's prayers were not answered by Allah. Could it be that the so called "Gabriel" was preaching a false religion (Galatians 1:8) to Muhammad? Could Gabriel have been a deceptive demon or even Satan himself? I will leave you to decide ...


People, choose whom you follow carefully,

Many, God forbid even some of the elect, will be deceived in these times....

God bless us all



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by maes2
 


Twisting scriptures to suit your own views does not make your views Truth.

Satan tried twisting scriptures to suit his views when he tempted Jesus in the desert.



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


To answer your questions.



The only thing that Islam replaced was the culture of idolatry and polytheism that was rampant in Arabia. Islam was a separate revelation to a separate people.

The conditions of Leviticus 26 applies to the Israelites.... that if they sin against God, they will taste the punishmnent.

Israel has been accused of the crimes of killing prophets even by Jesus. They will bear the punishments for this. Not the muslims who honor the prophets.


Arabia may have been a separate people in the 800 AD era approximately but per the prophesies of Genesis 48 and 49 they wouldn't be now. Per the prophesies the descendants of Israel would be a countless number making up a multitude of nations by the last days. The covenant made between Moses, the Israelites, and God in the desert is based on genetics. Binding on the descendants of Israel in perpetuity. Most of the people in the world today likely have a genetic link to those Israelites.

Also Romans 11 adds an amendment to this agreement which I'll get to later.



Isaiah 42 confirms that Islam is of God. It was the light to the gentiles. We know the servant of God in Isaiah 42 (pertaining to Kedar) is Mohammad because no Biblical prophet was ever active in Kedar and the wilderness.... no biblical prophet had anything to do with Kedars idolaters. Isaiah 42 points directly to Mohammad.


Perhaps but there is a tiny problem here. Isaiah 42 is a continuation of Isaiah 41. Look at verse 41-8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

The servant of Isaiah 42 is Israel. Though that would beg the question of "What is Mohammad's genetic linage?" In order for Mohammad to be this servant he would have had to be linked to Israel. Possible but his biography doesn't mention it. I'd say the question is in limbo.




Well, by that logic, the "curse" would have also fallen on the apostles and the early Israelite converts to Christianity. Because some evil Jews killed John the baptist, even the early Christian church who were comprised of Jews are under the curse. Or are Christians somehow exempt from this "curse" that you speak of?


The answer to that is yes. A Christian does have an exemption. It's called the new covenant. As Galatians puts it faith in Jesus Christ atones for your sins. And as Romans 11 puts it through the olive tree parable. The original branches were broken off because of their disbelief. And Christians are grafted into their place. But what is this olive tree?

Look at this from Jeremiah 11.

Continues



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by ntech
 


1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord saying,

2 Hear ye the words of this covenant, and speak unto the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem;

3 And say thou unto them, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel; Cursed be the man that obeyeth not the words of this covenant,

4 Which I commanded your fathers in the day that I brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, from the iron furnace, saying, Obey my voice, and do them, according to all which I command you: so shall ye be my people, and I will be your God:

5 That I may perform the oath which I have sworn unto your fathers, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey, as it is this day. Then answered I, and said, So be it, O Lord.

6 Then the Lord said unto me, Proclaim all these words in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, saying, Hear ye the words of this covenant, and do them.

7 For I earnestly protested unto your fathers in the day that I brought them up out of the land of Egypt, even unto this day, rising early and protesting, saying, Obey my voice.

8 Yet they obeyed not, nor inclined their ear, but walked every one in the imagination of their evil heart: therefore I will bring upon them all the words of this covenant, which I commanded them to do: but they did them not.

9 And the Lord said unto me, A conspiracy is found among the men of Judah, and among the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

10 They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers.

11 Therefore thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape; and though they shall cry unto me, I will not hearken unto them.

12 Then shall the cities of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem go, and cry unto the gods unto whom they offer incense: but they shall not save them at all in the time of their trouble.

13 For according to the number of thy cities were thy gods, O Judah; and according to the number of the streets of Jerusalem have ye set up altars to that shameful thing, even altars to burn incense unto Baal.

14 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear them in the time that they cry unto me for their trouble.

15 What hath my beloved to do in mine house, seeing she hath wrought lewdness with many, and the holy flesh is passed from thee? when thou doest evil, then thou rejoicest.

16 The Lord called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.

17 For the Lord of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal.

18 And the Lord hath given me knowledge of it, and I know it: then thou shewedst me their doings.

19 But I was like a lamb or an ox that is brought to the slaughter; and I knew not that they had devised devices against me, saying, Let us destroy the tree with the fruit thereof, and let us cut him off from the land of the living, that his name may be no more remembered.

20 But, O Lord of hosts, that judgest righteously, that triest the reins and the heart, let me see thy vengeance on them: for unto thee have I revealed my cause.

21 Therefore thus saith the Lord of the men of Anathoth, that seek thy life, saying, Prophesy not in the name of the Lord, that thou die not by our hand:

22 Therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts, Behold, I will punish them: the young men shall die by the sword; their sons and their daughters shall die by famine:

23 And there shall be no remnant of them: for I will bring evil upon the men of Anathoth, even the year of their visitation.

Branches are people. They can be blessed as in Isaiah 4-2 or cursed as in Isaiah 14-19. But what is the tree then? The family tree of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel. A Christian is an adopted Israelite. And through faith is connected directly to the benefits side of the Leviticus 26 covenant.



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by ntech
 



Islam has a bit of a problem here though from a Jewish and Christian perspective though. It envisions itself as a replacement theology. And per Leviticus 26 a replacement theology is impossible. The God of Abraham made a legal agreement with the Israelites in the desert during the time of Moses. To break it and disown the the Jews and Israelites would be impossible for him.


The only thing that Islam replaced was the culture of idolatry and polytheism that was rampant in Arabia. Islam was a separate revelation to a separate people.

The conditions of Leviticus 26 applies to the Israelites.... that if they sin against God, they will taste the punishmnent.

The Koran addresses this

Then Allah said, "It is expected, if you repent, that your Lord will have mercy upon you. But if you return to sin, We will return to punishment. And We have made Hell, for the disbelievers, a prison-bed."
-Koran 17:8



However this is what's happening to them currently. 2000 years ago they triggered the curse of Malachi with the death of John the Baptist. Who Jesus Christ claimed was the Elijah the prophet.

Israel has been accused of the crimes of killing prophets even by Jesus. They will bear the punishments for this. Not the muslims who honor the prophets.



Can Islam really be valid? Or was it just temporary? Another problem. The curse is coming to an end. Best guess it ends in the 2020s.

Isaiah 42 confirms that Islam is of God. It was the light to the gentiles.
We know the servant of God in Isaiah 42 (pertaining to Kedar) is Mohammad because no Biblical prophet was ever active in Kedar and the wilderness.... no biblical prophet had anything to do with Kedars idolaters. Isaiah 42 points directly to Mohammad.


According to the prophesies the Israelites were eventually to become a multitude of nations. And they have had 3000 years plus to do that. Essentially by now the world is filled with Israelites. And that would mean most if not all of the world's Muslims are now Israelites and under the curse of Malachi.


Well, by that logic, the "curse" would have also fallen on the apostles and the early Israelite converts to Christianity. Because some evil Jews killed John the baptist, even the early Christian church who were comprised of Jews are under the curse. Or are Christians somehow exempt from this "curse" that you speak of?


edit on 14-11-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



ISA 42 speaks of the Christ Jesus not islam and not mohomed.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 06:11 AM
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reply to post by godlover25
 



Paul the apostle was bitten by a poisonous snake (Acts 28:1-6), and Paul suffered no ill effects from the bite. G-d had his hand of protection on Paul, to finish the work that Paul had laid out before him.


Mohammad died a few years after the poisoning. He still had his strength afterwards. What kind of poison kills people slowly over time?

If you are trying to tell me that God allowing Mohammad to die is an indication that he was not a true prophet, then what about Biblical figures who were killed?.

Christians believe that God let Jesus be tortured and crucified half naked at the hands of pagan Romans.... does that mean Jesus was a false prophet?
What about John the Baptist? He was beheaded as a "gift" for a female dancer. Was John a false prophet?
Peter the apostle was crucified upside down. Was Peter a false apostle?


Could it be that the so called "Gabriel" was preaching a false religion (Galatians 1:8) to Muhammad? Could Gabriel have been a deceptive demon or even Satan himself? I will leave you to decide ...


Jesus himself was accused of using demons to perform miracles. And we know what his answer was.


So Jesus called them and spoke to them in parables: "How can Satan drive out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
-Mark 3:23-24


This is the very same argument that Christians have against the Koran.... that it was Satanic in origin. The Koran however, warns the believer against Satan, who is identified as the 'enemy of mankind'.

According to Jesus' logic, Satan will not work against out Satan. So the Koran which warns against Satan cannot be from Satan.

edit on 15-11-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Of course it can be,

Repent and turn to Jesus Christ, who is the only God and is your God,

The Allah of Islam and the Quran cannot save you,

Only the Allah of the Bible and His Son Jesus can save you,

Repent, turn to Jesus;

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by godlover25
 

what I can not perceive is that you say my God or your God ! but you know that there is only one God in the monotheistic religions. and only one enemy, the satan and the upcoming anti_christ (Dajjal).
you know that the corrupted leaders of Israel (tribe) cooperated with Romans to kill Jesus. because Jesus stood against the corrupted Jew leaders as a reformer the same that Moses stood against Pharaoh.
Jesus was alone and he is still alone. what will Jesus say when it returns !!! maybe he says some of those that claim Christianity helped the corrupted leaders of Israel to commit genocide against people and to shape their satanic influence in the world ! and they remained silent when the movies mocking Jesus spreaded through the world ! where do you expect that the anti_christ emerges !? I am seeing it like a sun in the middle of day !





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