Who Killed JFK? Wanna Know?

Originally posted by Aleister
reply to post by cultureoftruth

 

We went through this pages ago!!! A reflection of the sun on one side of the street is not the same as a reflection or no reflection on the other side of the street. Zapruder was standing well above the car, and the angle that the sun hit the agents hair (or part in the hair) created what he caught on film. Across the street, taking pics or film from the opposite side, there would not be the same or likely any reflection. Please at least think about that for a second, or go run a test outside at the exact same time and angle of the sun as on that "Fateful Day in Dallas".

You are absolutely correct about the reflections Aleister,alot of men used hair gel or pomade(sp?) in those days.As to Greer firing the fatal shot,I say no way.If you notice Greer turns to look at the rear,looks forward then turns and looks to rear again,sees the fatal shot then takes off.If he had a gun in his left hand,trying to sight while driving,shoot a shot over his right shoulder and hitting his target would be a little tough.If you play the video at normal speed,the time Greer turns to look back is very fast.No way he made that shot.

I thought this theory was debunked long ago here on ATS.I believe the fatal head shot did come from the front though.

In my Humble and My own Opinion I would say that the driver did fire the fatal shot that killed JFK , I would also like to point out that I think Jacqueline knew Exactly who Fired the fatal shot, Hence her human survivalist reaction , she did not crouch or try to get to the floor of the car ,she can be seen scrambling over the back rest to exit the rear of the car . this for me is basic human survival, instinct . Get away from the area of greatest threat.

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
reply to post by spooky24

 

I dont buy the Hickey theory either but they are making a docudrama about it. I think that there were at least 3 shooters (triangulation kill zone) and besides the grassy knoll there may have been one hiding in the sewer drain who shot the president in the head as the limo passed with a Remington XP-100 (rifle in pistol configuration with a .221 Fireball cartridge with a custom frangible bullet).

edit on 29-7-2013 by CosmicCitizen because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-7-2013 by CosmicCitizen because: (no reason given)

I too believe the storm drain played a part in the fatal shot.Thats why the Zapruder film was cropped,to hide the muzzle flash.

reply to post by crazyeddie68

I thought this theory was debunked long ago here on ATS.

Oh, It's been debunked many times, both on ATS and off it. Despite this, people still hold onto it with all their lives. I guess simply choosing a theory at random and sticking to it is much easier work than further research.

I also suggest people watch this video by a pretty decent researcher called Bob Harris:

I believe the fatal head shot did come from the front though.

I do too, from the position selected by Holland to be specific. What do you think about the possibility of 2 shots in quick succession as well out of curiosity? A lot of witnesses do report the last 2 shots being almost on top of each other after all and we can see JFK makes a quick forward movement, then a dramatic move back back and to the left.

reply to post by Riouz

In my Humble and My own Opinion I would say that the driver did fire the fatal shot that killed JFK , I would also like to point out that I think Jacqueline knew Exactly who Fired the fatal shot, Hence her human survivalist reaction , she did not crouch or try to get to the floor of the car ,she can be seen scrambling over the back rest to exit the rear of the car . this for me is basic human survival, instinct . Get away from the area of greatest threat.

Her husbands head literally exploded a mere few inches away from her, of course she would try to escape. It's not in anyway proof the shot came from inside the car.

Every single one of us would react in the same way she did.

Her husbands head literally exploded a mere few inches away from her, of course she would try to escape. It's not in anyway proof the shot came from inside the car.

Every single one of us would react in the same way she did.

No Sir incorrect , if she had not seen the shot, but knew it came from the front ,she would have crouched down, laid down on the floor using the seats infront of her as a barricade, like you state most would do ,we would not try and climb out over the rear of the car, if we only knew that shots where coming from the front area .

She in my opinion saw the fatal shot from the driver and that's what made her climb out the rear.

reply to post by Riouz

No Sir incorrect , if she had not seen the shot, but knew it came from the front ,she would have crouched down, laid down on the floor using the seats infront of her as a barricade, like you state most would do ,we would not try and climb out over the rear of the car, if we only knew that shots where coming from the front area .

Well no one really saw the shot from the knoll so that's a bit of a moot point really, the theory is primarily based on the movements, reaction, and impact on JFK's skull. All they knew that was happening was multiple shots were flying in at them, and again.. his head exploded literally right in front of her, the natural reaction is of course to escape, which is what she did try to do.

Such a shame her actions are, and have been, so scrutinized. It's totally unfair. No one in this position would be thinking straight, or be thinking about the smart thing to do.. you go to your basic human instincts which are escaping the danger, which is what she attempted to do. The driver theory is just silliness.

She in my opinion saw the fatal shot from the driver and that's what made her climb out the rear.

The above video I posted disproves this.

Originally posted by Riouz



She in my opinion saw the fatal shot from the driver and that's what made her climb out the rear.

Did Greer make mistakes in Dealey Plaza? Yes. He faltered and panicked, slowed the limo to look into the back seat, and didn't step on the gas until Roy Kellerman shouted for him to do so. Greer is a sad figure in this tragedy. He made mistakes that any untrained layperson would make, but he was no murderer, he held no weapon, and there is no evidence that he played any part in the conspiracy.

Did the Limousine driver shoot JFK?

He was simply a driver.

Well Gentleman it would seem after watching the Video Clip you posted and the links from the other poster .
I will Admit that ,that clearly shows no driver involvement , so my apologies gentleman.

Riouz

Jackie Kennedy testified that she had no recollection whatsoever of ever climbing on the trunk to retrieve a part of her husbands skull. She remembers feeling hot because of the sun and thinking how cool it would be once they went through the underpass. Next, she said she remembered trying to hold her husbands head together-"trying to hold his hair on" A fact kept from the public for 38 years.

Her testimony was universally accepted.

Now did Frank, Billy and Dusty get the name ZZTOP from the floor of Pat Kirkwoods Cellar Coffee House?

reply to post by Riouz


I'd just like to also say that truly, there is much evidence for a conspiracy in multiple different areas of the case, and I can say that as someone who's spent years of his life researching, studying, and trying to understand as best as I possibly can.

The driver theory really is just bunk though, I can promise you that much. It's the evidence which says so and that's why I and others hold the positions we do. Evidence, facts, unbias and honesty are everything and they should be the core values of any conclusions made by anyone on any topic.

Star for you at this time for at least being honest. Many people would carry on regardless just because they don't want to be proven wrong when in reality, It's the truth we should be focusing on and spurring us on, not egos. So thank you.

Great thread which has always fascinated me. Can anybody clarify something for me which is that Oswald was purported to be an awful shot.Is there any truth in this ?

reply to post by macpdm


Oswald joined the marines right after his 17th birthday. Former and fellow Marine Sherman Cooley was quoted in Jim Marrs' book, Crossfire, on page 102 on the very first line (I have the book with me right now and I'm quoting it exactly), the following:

Sherman Cooley recalled that Oswald was given the name "[SNIP]Bird" because initially he couldn't qualify on the M-1 rifle. Cooley said "It was a disgrace not to qualify and we gave him holy hell."

On line 11 of the very same page, 102, we also have the following:

Oswald went on to qualify as a "sharpshooter" by only 2 points in December. "Sharpshooter" being the second of three grades of marksmanship. He did not do nearly as well when he again fired for the record shortly before leaving the marines.

Don't let the title of sharpshooter fool you either. So he was relatively capable but no where near the world class marksman he was made out to be. No way. He was even bullied for his shooting abilities at times.

Hope this clarifies thing's for you a little bit and if more quotes from this book and some others are desired, I'm happy to provide.

Well the FBI admitted the existence an LHO imposter that was an incredible shot. The Sports Dome gun range in northern Dallas and the infamous "Mr Hatch episode"

Mr Hatch and his friends were target shooting when they saw a young man shooting a Mannlicher-Carcano rifle with amazing speed and accuracy. The man then started shooting Mr Hatch's target from across the range hitting the bulls eye twice.

When Mr. Hatch confronted the man he told him he was "Practicing to shoot that son-of-a-bitch Kennedy" He said his name was 'Lee Oswald' and he was a former Marine and had lived in Russia. Mr Hatch and his friends agreed with 'Lee" and said someone does need to "Shoot that son-of-a-bitch Kennedy. They watched him shoot for more than 45 minutes and his speed with such an inferior weapon amazed them.

However, our Lee Harvey Oswald worked his full shift that day at the Book Depository and never left the building.

The Oswald doppelganger has never really been explained by anyone other than it's obvious someone was setting LHO up. The 70's movie 'Executive Action' has an excellent spin on this and of course Oliver Stone used in a sort of comical way.

Just another one of the things in this case that makes little sense. Or better said 'just another brick in the wall'

reply to post by Rising Against


Brilliant thankyou

reply to post by spooky24


Again fascinating and something that was included in the JFK Stone movie but I have kind of been a little mistrustful of the film since I read it was using artistic licence to the max ?

Anyone who has spent a considerable amount of time on this case knows Oliver Stone's film 'JFK' is a load of crap. From the point of cinematography, and the skill of veteran actors the movie is a masterpiece. However, the film is presented in a factual documentary style and there is no disclaimer pointing out that it is strictly a work of fiction. I'm not saying it's not a good movie-it's a great movie-and uninformed persons after seeing it believe they have been shown the truth-problem being it's mostly supposition and atomic leaps in logic.

Mr Stone manages to piece together several different conspiracy theories while not explaining or proving any of them. District Attorney Jim Garrison was about as unlikely a hero as OS could ever find and the trial of Clay Shaw was a farce that destroyed the man regardless of his not guilty verdict.

Some of the brilliance of the film comes from the grand jury and courtroom testimony from that trial and they are both very interesting reading. The late John Candy's portrayal of scumbag lawyer Dean (Deno) Andrews is classic and his testimony before the Orleans Parrish Grand Jury is both funny and timeless.

www.maryferrell.org... 1017

One must remember this is the late 60's before the insanity of political correctness so expect some vivid talk. Andrews assessment of homosexual men as "dem faggy boys" is just a start.

reply to post by Riouz

I thought that she crawled to the back of the limo to help an agent who was trying to climb in......

Originally posted by spooky24
If you would use the frames released by the ARRB-that are at a much higher resolution it is plain to anyone that SA Greer's arm is on the steering wheel 5/16th of a second after the shot. Purposely using the blurred images to prove a point shows deception and that is not debate. I admire your dedication to your belief however not using images that clearly disprove your hypothesis just drains your credibility.

Both his hands were off the wheel four seconds before he shot President, during which he transferred the gun to his left hand. His left hand didn't return to the wheel until some time after he shot jfk.

Frame 241 shows both hands off the wheel just before he passes gun.

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by Riouz

 

The driver theory really is just bunk though, I can promise you that much. It's the evidence which says so and that's why I and others hold the positions we do. Evidence, facts, unbias and honesty are everything and they should be the core values of any conclusions made by anyone on any topic.

:

If the driver shooting jfk is simple bunk as you say, then why doesn't his real left arm extend over with the headshot in Zapruder as it clearly does in both other films? Why doesn't Bob Harris show that Greer was passing an object with both hands off the wheel right before the shot? These are video facts that you continually ignore because the answers refute your deception.