State's Secession is a Viral Meme. You can't leave!

reply to post by RedmoonMWC


Wow, I didn't think they'd get that many.

I wonder where it goes from here. Ignored by the Obama Administration, or actually addressed? I do see reports coming in, I wonder how long before the MSM picks up the story. As you know, we break news here 2-3 days before the MSM does, so maybe in a few days we'll hear about it on the news?

Probably not, but still....

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by Druid42

 

Wouldn't such a split weaken the nation (and whatever new nation arises) to the point where we would be ripe for attack from those that hate us?

No, each Nation State could divide up the weapons amongst them. California is a big state and on the coast so I say they get all the Tomahawk cruise missiles and half the B52's.

Originally posted by timetothink
There is nothing in the constitution barring states from seceding. It's going yo be another drawn out debate.

Many states ratified the constitution and joined the union with the stipulation they could leave if warranted by their population.



In the civil war after the south seceded, Lincoln decided to fight to bring them back.

edit on 11-11-2012 by timetothink because: (no reason given)

True. Prior to 1860, ALL states assumed the right to secede. The New England states were constantly threatening secession from 1803 to 1812. A major debate that took place during the Hartford Convention was whether or not to secede over Westward expansion and war with England.

New York and Virginia joined the Republic with the expressed belief that they could leave at any time.

States right to nullify federal law and/or secede face a major setback during the Jackson administration and the Nullification crisis with South Carolina. Even after that, though, there was a minor movement in the mid-Atlantic states to seek secession.

In 1861 11 states (13 if you include the secessionist governments of Kentucky and Missouri) actually drew up articles of secession and did the deed.

Petitioning the President had no part in the process. As pointed out earlier on this thread, signing your name to the petition would likely only get your name on a DHS "terrorist" list.

But if a group of states decided to try again, they would not ask permission. They would just do it.

And 200 years ago they said we couldn't be a country, look what happened. The only thing binding us to anything is the WILL OF THE PEOPLE, documents or not, if a governor didn't sign and separate and use state militias to back up words , IM pretty sure an entire state of people doing absolutely nothing for a year x 1,2 ,3 ,4 ,5 ,6 or as many states that want to secede, leaving cars in roads no gas in them, blockading , setting towns on fire,stealing mail setting fire to federal banks and buildings ect, ect. You get the idea.

So we can either leave on own, or set the whole damn state on fire so there's nothing left they want ^^ raise and blaze I think the term is ? ^^

State secession ambitions seem to be a reaction to the trend of bigger centralized governments. To me, it is a reaction that serves no interests. I highly doubt any of these states would be better off on it's own.

What we have is a small minority on the political fringe assuming the absolute worst, overreacting to the trend of centralization and trying to "regain" sovereignty.

The problem is, our rights really have not been diminished to any serious extent. I am basically free to do as please. The idea that our government, or the elite or whoever, is in the process of staging a complete coup and overtly enslaving the public is a misinterpretation of what is happening, IMO. We are in a highly transitional society with a rapid pace of change on all levels. So far, the increased centralization of government and business may be stripping power from locals and individuals. But our system should allow for some eventual reversal.

While secession is an overreaction, shifting government responsibilities to states and localities is a great idea. Health care, education, and poverty management should be more efficient closer to home. We have to remember that these areas are relatively new as a government responsibility all together, and for the most part instituted by the fed. Our system will be able to iron out wrinkles with time and experience.

We do need a strong centralized system, not just in America but worldwide. The UN is a good idea if done correctly. But, Capitals need to allow governments to function at the smaller level with a lot of freedom.


Mostly, my point it that we need to stay unified on large scales but free and productive on small.

reply to post by Druid42


No State needs federal "permission" ro secede.

This is pure B.S,

reply to post by 11235813213455


Good way to put it,

Definitely the zombie virus which is leading to flesh eating disease in those to close.

reply to post by Druid42


It was still a death warrant in those times.....showing their opposition to the king with their signatures.

Look how many died to give us our constitution.....maybe the time has come to renew it.

Too many don't know or care what being American means. The republic is being chipped away and the Obama administration has woken up far more than the Bush administration did.

reply to post by DarthMuerte


"Nowhere in the Constitution does the document state that the voluntary association of the states is "permanent" and unalterable."

Your forgetting to take into account the State Constitution. The Federal Constitution may indeed not say that, but the State Constitution may well say that separating from the Federal Union is unlawful. AND... you must also realize that many States have Federal land within their boarders, meaning that State does not own it, the Federal Government does. Sure, they can legislate that Federal Land back to State Land, but in the process they'd slit their throats in the form of denied Federal hand outs. The Federal Government literally has the States by the gonads.

reply to post by Druid42


You made a comment about police being trained for this kind of stuff....ive never had a "terrorism" class or training...people bitch all the time in the city i work and we don't arrest anyone...and I don't see how you would be put on a no fly list cause you want your state to leave the union....other than that...good post! haha

reply to post by jiggerj


They haven't attacked us for 11 years now. Oh wait, that was an inside job.

What makes you think that anyone is going to attack the US if a few states secede?

reply to post by cosmicexplorer


The source for the article said North Carolina. Thank god that is not the sentiment everywhere! Thanks for the info.

reply to post by Jobeycool


If you look at the blue counties in Ohio (and most every state) that is where the large cities are. By strange coincidence it also is where most crimes occur and where most welfare benefits go. The red counties also have more individual home owners versus renters as well.



The Constitution does not spell out secession procedures however look at the Preamble:

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

It is We the People that have the ultimate check and balance. In fact every one of the ten amendments of the Bill of Rights are specifically addressing the rights and powers of the individuals including that we retain rights that are not enumerated. The Constitution places limits to the powers of both the Federal and State governments so that the order of precedence of power is We the People, the States and lastly the Federal government. That power structure was fundamentally changed during the course of the Civil War and expanded upon during the Reconstruction Era with finalization in 1913 with both the 16th and 17th Amendments. The proof can be found in the 18th, 19th The policies of The New Deal, (then 22nd as a result of The New Deal), 23rd and 26th Amendments.

The Federal government now has precedence over the States and We the People in direct violation of the principals and limitations of why we changed from The Articles of Confederation to the Constitution. Furthermore, it has delegated considerable amounts of the limited powers that it did have to private companies. The IRS, Federal Reserve and US Postal Service to name three examples.

reply to post by Ahabstar


Is it a requirement of moderators to be extremely ignorant?

I'm sure you're not aware that red states suck away a lot of the tax dollars from the blue states.

Obama Supporters Subsidize Romney Supporters

Blue States Subsidize Red States Studies show that states that elect Democrats contribute the most in federal taxes relative to what they consume in government services. Conversely, many states that elect Republicans contribute the least in taxes relative to the services they consume. This is true even though many Democratic states contain large, poor, urban populations of color.

With the exception of New Mexico and Virginia, 8, count the, EIGHT of the most tax-dependent states are Red states (Mississippi, Alaska, Louisiana, West Virginia, North Dakota, Alabama, South Dakota and Kentucky).

Please do your research next time.

Also, if the most tax-dependent states wish to secede, they'll lose quite a bit of money.

Not a very bright move, eh?

Am I the only one here who read the thread title in a very ominous tone?

"NO ONE escapes the great UNITED STATES!"



None shall get out alive....



Sorry... I just hear it that way in my head each time I see the title. Almost funny. Would be, were it not for the long video news compilation I watched last night.


Warning: About 35 minutes long and may give "patriots" and freedom-lovers nightmares. You've been warned.








And on that note, Titor was right?

You know what will really give "patriots" and "freedom-lovers" nightmares?

Paying for all those affected by a secession from the union.

All it took was the re-election of Obama to bring all the racist, ignorant idiots out of the woodwork and they came to ATS of all the places.

reply to post by Druid42


it is not going to be pretty. its going to be very messy

Originally posted by VaterOrlaag
You know what will really give "patriots" and "freedom-lovers" nightmares?

Paying for all those affected by a secession from the union.

All it took was the re-election of Obama to bring all the racist, ignorant idiots out of the woodwork and they came to ATS of all the places.

I agree that the re-election brought out a whole mess of ignorant whiners. However, I don't think the idea of a secession has to necessarily be all about that. I think a lot of people have grievances they feel won't be addressed no matter WHO is the president.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by your second line, above? Paying...etc?

Originally posted by Druid42

every person who advocates, teaches, advises or practices the duty, necessity or propriety of controlling, conducting, seizing or overthrowing the government of the United States … shall register with the Secretary of State.”

Under the sweeping terms of the law, members of tax protest organizations, the Tea Party movement and the States’ Rights movement based in South Carolina are

all domestic terrorists

if they fail to register their dissent with the authorities.

Each member has to register, or you are a Domestic Terrorist. Really?

Only if you are a citizen of the great state of North Carolina.

This is a growing problem on ATS, atsers want less government but can't tell the difference between federal, state, and local law.

It is really sad.

You want the Federal government to be dissemenated? Welcome to state law where states rule and SC can decide to install slavery again tomorrow.

And sometimes ATSers take these laws too seriously, and they think that agents (South Carolina agents apparently) are going around and stalking you to see if your gardent fits this law. A lot of these are generated as backups. There is a term for it but I can't remember what it is right now. It is like basically using a tax loop hole to catch capone, it is a net to get the seriously crazy people.

The third problem with ATSers, a bloated sense of self importance, that the government is actually interested in them, and every law is generated to catch them.

reply to post by iwilliam


Did you read the post I made prior to it?

I'm talking about tax dollars. Who's going to make up that windfall?