State's Secession is a Viral Meme. You can't leave!

So far it looks like all the [snip] Conservative Red states looking to leave.

All this over a BLACK President who wants to help the working folks more than the wealthy ones??

Geez!!

Originally posted by MojaveBurning
If any of those petitions were to reach 25,000, what would happen next? What would have to be the actual process for something like this to happen? IS there a process in place for a state to separate from the US?

You are pressuring the President, not Congress. Would he listen? I would like to think so, but it's doubtful.

There is no process or solution. It kind of reminds me of Occupy, with teeth. Eventually, I would think they would just have the webadmin take down the petitions, and forget about them. Honestly, though, I don't know.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by Druid42

 

Solution? The answer to 1984 is 1776.

You know, that is actually a good slogan. "1776 for 1984". I'll bet people would rally with that, Fema camp interment, or not.

Originally posted by oper8zhin
So far it looks like all the low-IQ Conservative Red states looking to leave.

All this over a BLACK President who wants to help the working folks more than the wealthy ones??

Geez!!

He seems to want to help the non working folks more than anybody else.
Adding 1.5 trillion to the deficit each year only helps the wealthy.

Originally posted by Druid42
reply to post by DarthMuerte

 

We have the right and duty to change the government with violence if necessary

Use violence and you'll be in a FEMA camp, labeled as a Terrorist. All our rights are slowly fading away. If we try to overthrow the government, it won't be pretty.

My point was is the the Declaration, while stating we may replace the government and redress, it's not considered a law. Those words are not in the actual Constitution. The Constitution is what the Supreme Court uses when setting a new precedent, and there is nothing in that grand ol' document stating our right to secede.

The threat of the "FEMA camp" is present only when the numbers are low. It would require a very very large, uncontainable number of pissed off people to stand together against the tyranny, at the same time!
Not just some stand around protests like ows, but "taking back" style.

As for secession being a point of attack for other countries. I think that they'd wait it out to see what becomes of the tearing apart of the U.S before they made any moves. Besides, who's to say that they wouldn't want to work with the side that has liberated themselves from the tyranny that they share hatred in??

And on the notion of being "torn apart", that is not exactly the case. Just because a state doesn't want to be ruled by tyrannical government doesn't mean that those lands would become un-American and not willing to cooperate in some situations.

reply to post by LightWarrior11


Those are some very good points. I'll bet there are other countries that dislike the government, but have no problem with it's citizens. Would it boil down to the individual states getting aid from other countries? That's interesting to think about.

Here's another: Would the government ever fire on it's citizens during a protest? What would that reaction be? Polarizing, to be sure.

Whenever people complain about America, people say "feel free to leave".

Guess what...you don't get to keep your state in the divorce.

Feel free to go live someone else and good luck.

There is nothing in the constitution barring states from seceding. It's going yo be another drawn out debate.

Many states ratified the constitution and joined the union with the stipulation they could leave if warranted by their population.



In the civil war after the south seceded, Lincoln decided to fight to bring them back.

reply to post by zroth


Never heard of states rights and sovereignty?

We are a union of separate states, joined together under the protection, not rule of a central government.

States decided to join and should retain the right to leave if their population agrees on it.

reply to post by timetothink


None of which changes my point.

Any other time of the year, these same douchebags say "don't like it, leave".

I extend the same offer to them now.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

It is highly doubtful that the majority of citizens in these states actually want this. These are just sore loser, red party leaders throwing a tantrum.

Originally posted by Druid42
reply to post by jiggerj

 

That would be the best time to attack. Thus the emphasis on the bogus petitions.

The world has to love us about now.

Y'all are nuts to think people will join the Administration for fear of being attacked. That would be the ultimate cowardice. These petitions are just people sending the government a message of how pi$$ed off they feel. Does anybody think the White House will do anything with these?

Nobody needs to attack us now. It's two elections too late. The revolution occurred within the government.

Communist Party Leader: Obama Victory “Dawn of a New Era”
www.trevorloudon.com...

Only change I see is that the Dems should be labelled the Red party now.

reply to post by zroth

It is highly doubtful that the majority of citizens in these states actually want this.

It's also highly probable that the majority of citizens don't have the means or willpower to do anything to change. The true patriots are few and far between, and the rest are sheeple. Disturbing the status quo is taboo.

But, I can almost agree with your points. The states rely upon the federal government. The whole system is intertwined. There is no solution. None at all.

I signed the Texas petition. Saying that we should not have for fear of fema camps is weak.

I don't think any major breaking points wilo happen for a while, but still think it's best to stick to our principals and lead the way for when more minds are activated properly.

We're still 5-10 years off from the states breaking up, WW3, revolution type chaos potential. It's simply not too messed up out there yet to reasonably expect it to happen within he next year.

You just can't please everyone, either some people want a war over raising taxes or not raising them, some people want war over keeping slaves and free labor as opposed to human rights and knowing slavery is wrong.

Some want to relive the world of the past where revolutions were fought with muskets, crossbows and cannons, well fantasy revolution fans, now is not the time and you will lose, and quickly.


I sum all of this nonsensical talk up with my own analysis, it is purely ego driven.

I mean with the human condition right now especially in those that want revolution or to leave the U.S. I ask what will please the basic human being ? they are never satisfied, either they remain in the anal state, reject anything they do not like, I don't really believe democracy could ever stay in a nice, medium moderate state where everyone is happy and pleased, both parties truly cooexisting together, never arguing.

I think the mind, pride, inablity to accept change and overall stubborness is the problem, this has nothing to do with politics at all, plain and simple it starts with individuals that have too many perceptions (wrong or right) of what really pleases their own individual egos and interests, when they do not get what they want or see what is right in their own minds, they cannot handle it if there is a different result from their own thinking, so what do they do, they protest that something is wrong and start to develop even more extreme irrational thinking.

Baby does not get the rattle, baby cries o I want my bah bah LOL .

What do people think about how the democrats had to suck it up when they lost an election but won the popular vote....can dish it, but can't take it is how I see it, Obama resoundingly won the electoral college, and also over 3, count them 3 million popular votes that says something.

I mean states that want to leave, let them take inventory of all of the federal money they get for all of the programs they enjoy and take stock in, then really think about what they are doing, re analyze whether this is a smart idea to even ponder, we that think with common sense know, it makes no sense and will end in calamity and war.

Most of the states proposing these things have people in them that talk about the "welfare state" , I warn them, leave the U.S. and thats what you will have is a welfare state with many people that will actually revolt against these very states that would leave the union because they will not be able to balance budgets, or sustain their states population on their own, creating their own little banana republics, where they have made promises to their constituents that they cannot keep.

Just my thoughts on this nonsense.....

With a population of over 25.5 million ( Texas that is), paying an income tax rate of 17% equates to $43,350,000 less revenue to good ol'e Uncle Slam. Throw in, oh say at least 14 more states and that is a fair chunk of money. Wonder who would make up the difference when this tax base is no longer there?

reply to post by ajay59


You may have something there. 43 million is a nice chunk of change for revenue input. That's a REAL good reason to not allow secession.

The government would have to shrink due to lack of funds.

A good science fiction book would have two governments, two presidents. Sorry, if there is a split, there would by need to be a second leader to lead the splinter faction. We don't have anything close. Pipe dreams.

The Federal government is an advasary to the US Constitution. Why? Because the Costitution dictates restrictions to which the Federal government is allowed to govern. The Constitution does not unleashes the government, but restrains it. The Constitution also defines the powers the State have. Amendments are modifiers to the Constitution and can be repealed or enacted.

The first thing the people should demand is the repeal of the 17th amendment. Back in the day, State legislatures voted for senators and the people voted for representitives. The Senate represented the will of the State and the House represented the will of the poeple. Since the 17th Amend., Senators have been subjected to intrest groups and lobbists. This was not ment to be. Take away the vote of the people for Senate and give it back to your State, we may start to see more balance in Congress. Repeal that one amendment, and your Senator's will be immune to intrests outside of your State.

No, States do not need to suceed, although, there are no restrictions to do so in the Constitution. We just need to correct the function of government and bring back balance. Power should be restored to the States, not enslaved by federal money.

Off Topic: Lincoln was a tyrant who prepatrated an illeagal war, which cost the lives of tens of thousands. IMO he was the worst president in US history.

There will be no need for any violent overthrow of the current FedGov. Too late. The spending and interest on the debt has already killed the govt. It just doesn't know it's heart stopped beating some time ago. We are moments before all the "lights go out". Not with a bang, but with a whimper.

It's the citizens fault for electing reps so they will spend money they don't have to give you things you don't deserve.

I think anyone who says that someone proving their point is a fool, is the real fool. If you don't stand for what you believe when you believe the time comes, then what purpose do you serve at all?

However, I think Obama and the current state of affairs is a ploy by TPTB to rile the nations 'parties' into inciting action against one another. This would be the trigger to flip the switch on national marshall law and to allow the UN to come in to 'support/supplement' the US forces with reigning in the American people and their 'opinions.'

In the end, the ONLY way to beat socialism is to remain united. We are all in this country together and your dollars speak more volumes than your fists or guns ever could. Civil war is bad ju-ju and no one wants to be hurt by their neighbor over political beliefs. America deserves more than a two party system, and we don't need a millionaire politician/liar making all the rules for all of us working folk.

I really hope everyone can come together before this nation comes apart from within. Regain your morals, find yourself helping one another with simple good deeds and chivalry, and focus on your own home life being so good that it reminds you what all of those less fortune who laid down the ultimate sacrifice so that we could live the way we do today.

Smile. Unite. Remember that power is ALWAYS in numbers. Buy smart. Think smart. Don't get caught up in BS. Think LONGTERM.

STOP WATCHING THE NEWS.