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"The looming GOP civil war"

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posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 10:22 AM
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www.politico.com...


...Regardless of whether Romney wins or loses, Republicans must move to confront its demographic crisis. The GOP coalition is undergirded by a shrinking population of older white conservative men from the countryside, while the Democrats rely on an ascendant bloc of minorities, moderate women and culturally tolerant young voters in cities and suburbs. This is why, in every election, since 1992, Democrats have either won the White House or fallen a single state short of the presidency.

“If we lose this election there is only one explanation — demographics,” said Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.).

But Republicans are divided on the way forward. Its base is growing more conservative, nominating and at times electing purists while the country is becoming more center than center-right. Practical-minded party elites want to pass a comprehensive immigration bill, de-emphasize issues like contraception and abortion and move on a major taxes-and-spending deal that includes some method of raising new revenue.

But many rank-and-file Republicans in Congress and grass-roots activists won’t sanction amnesty for undocumented immigrants, are determined to advance restrictions on abortion and have no appetite for any compromise with Democrats on fiscal issues. And that doesn’t even get at the growing cleavage on foreign policy in the GOP between the party’s hawkish wing and the rising voices who prefer a more restrained role abroad.

There’s not much of a moderate wing left in the GOP, but the pragmatism versus purity battle that looms on the horizon could be as fierce as Republicans have seen since the Goldwaterites sought to wrest control of the party in the 1960s.


This was obvious at the RNC as it has been at countless campaign stops around the country. Mostly white faces in the crowd.

This was obvious in the several controversies regarding rape/abortion this last two months.

This was obvious in Romney's hard line stance on immigration.

The GOP is dead in the water unless it drags itself into the 21st century. We are a multi-cultural society. We are a huge society. From a purely practical stand point, we need some measure of government. We need taxes to pay for infrastructure and government services.

It's just reality.

The world isn't as simplified as the 1950's/60's Leave it to Beaver or Andy Griffith show . It's crowded, it's diverse, it's complicated and it demands nuanced solutions that are comprehensive to all of our citizens, not just a few.

Obama is going to win by a narrow margin. On Wednesday morning, the GOP is going to wake up with one hell of an ultra-right wing hangover and see how their backward-thinking campaign of exclusion, alienation, division and fear has scared away potential moderate, independent and swing voters.

The GOP needs to scrap it out and decide how to best represent the views of all conservatives - of all colors and creeds - and moderates...not just the hard core base.




posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by Sergeant Stiletto

The world isn't as simplified as the 1950's/60's Leave it to Beaver or Andy Griffith show . It's crowded, it's diverse, it's complicated and it demands nuanced solutions that are comprehensive to all of our citizens, not just a few.


The world really wasn't that simple back in the 50's, 60's or at any other time in the past. As a people though, we have a tendancy to view the past throuh rose colored glasses.

"Ah! The good 'ol days!"

But I believe that this article is right to a degree. Both Repubs and Dems need to look at their respective parties as third parties are rising in power due to the disinfranchised populace.

I don't see either party fixing themselves until it is to late. And then they'll say, "Whoa! When did that happen?!"

The ball is rolling and stops for no one.
edit on 5-11-2012 by TDawgRex because: Need coffee



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 10:35 AM
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Since everyone ages there will be plenty of Conservatives to take the place of the ones who die. As people get older and have children/grandchildren they move to the right generally. Having your children/grandchildren be slaves to the government is not an option for most. So, no the Republican party is not dieing.



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 10:50 AM
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Sorry but this is a self inflicted wound.

If the GOP was serious about demographics they would have embraced Ron Paul supporters. They were young, they were from all walks of life. Instead, the GOP shunned them and disenfranchised every single one of these voters. So now if all the sudden there is a problem with the demographics... they only have themselves to blame for it.



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by MrWendal
Sorry but this is a self inflicted wound.

If the GOP was serious about demographics they would have embraced Ron Paul supporters. They were young, they were from all walks of life. Instead, the GOP shunned them and disenfranchised every single one of these voters. So now if all the sudden there is a problem with the demographics... they only have themselves to blame for it.


And both parties have disenfranchised many, by latching on to a few points of interest.

Hence, the rise of third parties. I think that we'll be seeing four major parties in the US within twenty years...easily. If not more.



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 


I agree completely, but this thread is about the GOP hence why I directed my comments directly to the GOP. However, you are right. Both Parties have disenfranchised voters, although I feel the Democrats have not done so quite as blatantly as the GOP has.

I am hoping we will see the rise of some New Parties. My only hope for this election is the Gary Johnson, or any 3rd Party Candidate for that matter, can achieve 5% of the vote. Doing so will enable them to receive the same federal funding that the Democrats and Republicans enjoy, then maybe third parties would not have to spend 3/4 of their funds just to get on the Ballot.



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 12:03 PM
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Another whats wrong with the Republicans acording to completely unbiased, agendaless liberals. What kind of racist bigot truly believes that white males have a different set of values from everyone else? The party has hurt itself by trying to fill the middle, and thusly has caused a watering down of its once conservative values. The left would love to see two center left parties fighting for control, some would argue that we already have two center left parties in control. What the GOP needs is a strong resurgence of conservative values, and to disregard the helpful input of the left. We will very shortly see a strong swing to the right in the country, and the GOP would do well to be on the right side of history when that occurs.



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by onthedownlow
 


And what are these "conservative values" that you are referring to. Specifically.

Is it the Pro Life stance?

Is it fiscal responsibility?

Please, tell us what these "conservative values" are that the GOP should be returning to. I am very interesting in hearing your take if you are willing to provide specifics.



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 12:24 PM
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This is an covertly racist post that makes a weak attempt to paint the republicans as a bunch of old monocle wearing daddy war-buck white guys sitting around in their tux's, sipping scotch and brandy, toking on their cigars and laughing about who has made more by cheating the poor and "not whites" out of their hard earned money.

Not going to work any more, you guys have gone to that well too many times and it is now dried up.

One only needs look at todays political landscape and listen to conservatives to hear that they're is a very large and collective sigh of relief to see that more and more minorities not buying the progressive agenda of the democrats. It is an empirical fact that cannot be denied.

And Lindsey Graham? He is one of the wost RINO's in the senate. On par with the late Arlen Specter if you ask me and no true conservative would take his opinion seriously.
edit on 5-11-2012 by 11235813213455 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 


Absolutely! Lets start with a smaller central government. No more encroaching on state rights! Abortion, immigration, and smaller taxes. We are seeing the liberal movement advance a dumbing down of morality in this country. An all encompassing value system that the GOP has been using to hold ground has truly hurt its base, we need to hammer out compromise in the senate instead of meeting in the middle during voting season, and just meeting in the senate to trade votes for lobbyists and special interests. I used to be a moderate conservative, I still am but I want a party that is much further right than myself to stop the decades long slide to the left. We could be alright with some common ground, but the center has continually shifted to the left for far to long. I think most conservatives are alright with a strong foreign policy that shows the US is willing to protect its own interest around the world, as well as values we believe to be inherently right. No more buying peace from rogue nations, and no more turning a blind eye to the political plite of third world countries. Not nation building, just good old arrogance that holds its place in this world through respect or fear, whichever it takes. Yeah, I may sound a little extreme, but this brand of leadership will be necessary to find some equilibrium, and curtail the moral shortfall our country is facing. --- More of a rant than anything productive, but I believe that most of the frustration on the right is because we have seen all of our values watered down, and we want a strong backbone in the WH, not a bunch of appeasing panzies.



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by 11235813213455
 




Seriously?

I guess it's easier to whine and point fingers than it is to admit something is seriously off-kilter with the party.

Ah well, at least you changed overtly to covertly, though it's not either.



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by Sergeant Stiletto
reply to post by 11235813213455
 




Seriously?

I guess it's easier to whine and point fingers than it is to admit something is seriously off-kilter with the party.

Ah well, at least you changed overtly to covertly, though it's not either.



Off kilter with the party?....Hmmm...Interesting since conservatives can still kludge together enough of a coalition sufficient to oust BHO.

It defies common sense to think that they are all white doesnt it? I mean..you dont honestly think that people can take a hyperbolic post such as yours with any grain of credibility do you?

People like you sound like a broken record your voice has now been relegated to nothing more than background noise. Good luck with that....



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by onthedownlow
Absolutely! Lets start with a smaller central government.


Ok let's start with this. How do you then explain Republicans increasing the size of Government? They expanded the DOE, they created DHS. Republicans have been just as responsible for expanding the size of Government as the Democrats have and I would argue that this issue is now a Libertarian issue as they are one of the few third parties that will even discuss it.


No more encroaching on state rights!

While I agree with the sentiment I am not so sure this is a Republican value. The Republicans have had no issue encroaching on States rights, unless it is done by a Democrat. This issue is now a Libertarian issue is anything.


Abortion, immigration, and smaller taxes.

Again I ask if you would please offer specifics. What about Abortion? What about immigration? What about smaller taxes?


We are seeing the liberal movement advance a dumbing down of morality in this country.

I disagree that there is a liberal movement to dumb down morality. If anything people are realizing that morality is a subjective issue and a matter of choice. Something I consider moral, others may not view it the same as I do. That is not something that can be controlled. A perfect example is abortion. For many it is an issue of morality. Do I believe abortion is murder? I do not, many others do see it that way, but the truth is that this is a non issue. If I have an abortion today, it will not effect your day to day life. My decision holds absolutely no consequence on how you live your life.


An all encompassing value system that the GOP has been using to hold ground has truly hurt its base,

I would argue that telling people what their values should be is what hurt the base. Focusing on social issues that Government has no business being involved in, is what has hurt the base.


we need to hammer out compromise in the senate instead of meeting in the middle during voting season, and just meeting in the senate to trade votes for lobbyists and special interests. I used to be a moderate conservative, I still am but I want a party that is much further right than myself to stop the decades long slide to the left. We could be alright with some common ground, but the center has continually shifted to the left for far to long. I think most conservatives are alright with a strong foreign policy that shows the US is willing to protect its own interest around the world, as well as values we believe to be inherently right. No more buying peace from rogue nations, and no more turning a blind eye to the political plite of third world countries. Not nation building, just good old arrogance that holds its place in this world through respect or fear, whichever it takes. Yeah, I may sound a little extreme, but this brand of leadership will be necessary to find some equilibrium, and curtail the moral shortfall our country is facing. --- More of a rant than anything productive, but I believe that most of the frustration on the right is because we have seen all of our values watered down, and we want a strong backbone in the WH, not a bunch of appeasing panzies.


The remainder of your post sounds all too familiar, and yet I am left with the feeling that you are stuck in this make believe left vs right paradigm. Most of what you say in the remainder of your post are all things that we hear from the Libertarian Party. Perhaps it is time for you to look elsewhere to a Party that believes as you do, cause everything you posted here are not things we hear from Republicans. The current Republicans want to arm rebels in Syria, they want to increase our presence around the world and involve ourselves in other Nations business. They want to Nation build.



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by Sergeant Stiletto
 


Let’s be honest here. When you say the GOP needs to “drag itself into the 21st century” you mean conservatives should dump our morality and bow to the demands of progressives and moderates within our ranks. No thanks! That’s why we lost in 2008. The majority of the GOP swung left years ago.

There already is a huge internal battle within the GOP. The fight is between conservatives and the more moderate members of the party (McCain - Romney types). The fight will continue but it isn’t going to go in the direction you want…..the GOP is going to swing farther right, otherwise the conservative base will likely split from the GOP.



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 



And what are these "conservative values" that you are referring to. Specifically.

Is it the Pro Life stance?

Is it fiscal responsibility?

Please, tell us what these "conservative values" are that the GOP should be returning to. I am very interesting in hearing your take if you are willing to provide specifics.


Protecting the Unborn

Strengthen Marriage and Family

Limited Government

Fiscal Responsibility

Defense of the Constitution

Tax Reform

A Well Defined Foreign Policy (think Reagan)



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
Protecting the Unborn


The unborn is protected. I can only assume you are referring to the abortion issue which I think my views on this are pretty well documented.


Strengthen Marriage and Family

You believe this can be done through Legislation?


Limited Government

Once upon a time Republicans did believe in limited Government, but that is no longer the case and has not been the case for over 20 years.


Fiscal Responsibility

See above answer. Once up on a time this was a Republican position but that is no longer the case and has not been for decades.


Defense of the Constitution

This was never a Republican issue. This is an issue that crossed Party lines and BOTH Parties have thrown this idea out the window.


Tax Reform

Again, this was not strictly a Republican issue and Republicans are just as responsible for the mess that we call out Tax system as anyone else.


A Well Defined Foreign Policy (think Reagan)


The Republicans have a well defined policy... they call it policing the world and sticking our nose where it dont belong. The problem is not how defined it is, the problem is how they have defined it and that was one of Reagan's points. Reagan did not want the US to be the world's policeman and actually spoke in favor of non intervention and that is what the Republican platform USED to be.



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 



Ok let's start with this. How do you then explain Republicans increasing the size of Government?


That's because the GOP is not conservative…..its moderate.



The Republicans have had no issue encroaching on States rights, unless it is done by a Democrat.


That is also because the GOP is not conservative.…



Again I ask if you would please offer specifics. What about Abortion? What about immigration? What about smaller taxes?


Abortion should be illegal except in the cases of rape, incest or to protect the life of the mother. I don’t think having a high regard for LIFE is a bad thing…..do you?

Our immigration laws should be enforced….period. The laws on the books work fine.

We don’t have a tax problem….we have a spending problem. Conservatives would balance the budget and cut waste (notice I said conservatives….not the GOP or Romney) so that we could alleviate the tax burden on the 50% of Americans who pay all of the taxes.




I disagree that there is a liberal movement to dumb down morality. If anything people are realizing that morality is a subjective issue and a matter of choice.


Being immoral is a choice….that doesn’t make it right!





A perfect example is abortion. For many it is an issue of morality. Do I believe abortion is murder? I do not, many others do see it that way, but the truth is that this is a non issue.


It is murder...

Just because you’ve found a way to justify it in your head doesn’t change the fact that a human life was taken.




I would argue that telling people what their values should be is what hurt the base. Focusing on social issues that Government has no business being involved in, is what has hurt the base.


Who is focusing on social issues?? All laws reflect values….do you want lawlessness?



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 02:04 PM
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I for one can not fathom why ANY minority would vote for a Democrat.
Seriously, look at what has been done to them.
They are being surpressed and held down to keep many of them poor and voting for democrats.
The Black American family has been decimated under them. Over 70% of their families live in single parent homes.

Less not forget that the Rebuplicans tried to pass the civil rights bill 4 times in the 50's. Blocked each time by democrats. It was not until the democrates got entitlements passed with the civil rights bill that they actually passed it in 64.
They did this to move them off of the southern plantation to the federal plantation. Dems were after all the founders and supporters of the KKK.
History books have been changed but not history itself.
If you want to find a bunch of old racists white guys, do a little research into the highest level Dems.
Quad



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 



You believe this can be done through Legislation?


In a way….

If the government would stop funding garbage programs that promote abortion and instead give tax breaks to private companies that educate people on family and personal responsibility we would be better off. Why does the government continue to make it easy to have children with no income? Why does the government promote laziness and an entitlement mentality?? There are many things that can be done.



Once upon a time Republicans did believe in limited Government, but that is no longer the case and has not been the case for over 20 years.


I agree. That’s why there is an internal battle within the GOP.



This was never a Republican issue. This is an issue that crossed Party lines and BOTH Parties have thrown this idea out the window.


I agree…..NDAA, the Patriot Act, SOPA, ACTA, etc……



Again, this was not strictly a Republican issue and Republicans are just as responsible for the mess that we call out Tax system as anyone else.


Historically speaking, Republicans cut taxes - Democrats raise taxes…..this has been the case for a century.



The Republicans have a well defined policy... they call it policing the world and sticking our nose where it dont belong.


Really??? How many wars has Obama got us into?


The GOP isn’t conservative! I advocate conservatism not the GOP crap. As far as I'm concerned the GOP is only a shade different than the Democrat party.

How many wars happened on Reagan’s watch?



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 


Your so called "Make believe Paradigm" is an attempt to assert your extraordinary understanding, that which you believe, or would like others to believe, makes you far superior in your analysis of government views. The problem is that left versus right is just an analogy of value and belief systems. We could just as easily call it up versus down or good versus evil. Republicans are traditionally conservative where as Democrats are typically more liberal, believing that government should progressively advance with society in social beliefs and morality. Not all conservatives agree on all issues, as neither do liberals, but conservatives do generally agree on preserving traditional values, the same as most liberals tend to desire a broadening of the traditional moral code to make it more lax and excepting. I have very staunch conservative values, but I believe that there should be a middle ground, as each of us are entitled to our own value systems- but the middle has continually shifted to the left... er, uh, I mean down. You are correct in thinking that my party may have left me, but the libertarian party is not a viable choice as it believes in very liberal values at home and an almost non-existant foreign policy.

I believe Rowe v. Wade is a perversion of values that greatly oversteps in its attempt to create equality.
I believe that imigration laws are perfect, but they need to be inforce very stringently.
I believe that the Federal government should only provide its intended purpose of protecting the sovereignty of the republic and maintaining constitutionally accurate laws within the states.
I do not believe that the rest of the world is entitled to free trade within the US, but I do believe that we are responsible for maintaing global relationships that are highly conducive of American prosperity.
I believe that free market capitalism creates opportunity for wealth.
I believe that we are all entitled to the same rights, but not equal prosperity, many of us will fail in our quest for a better life.
Etc... Etc... Etc...



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