Abortion - Free Will and Responsibility of Women, NOT Mankind

reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog


even more so, never once have I personally met someone who is anti-abortion that also has adopted children.

If the best solution we get given for abortion is "well, have you considered adoption?" Any idea how many unadopted foster children I have met in my life? I couldn't begin to count. And, at the same time, I have never known a single person to adopt, unless they adopted because they were unable to have children themselves.

I am wholly antiabortion. But, having said that, I admit that my stance is purely idealistic. And that there are problems that we haven't even begun to address.

Then I am faced with the stark reality of people like Annee. She is proven, at least to me, to be very intelligent and insightful. Her testimony creates issues for me. And it is what ultimately puts me in the camp of, "Do what you want with you and yours, just leave me and mine out of it".

reply to post by Annee


Thank you.

I have know 2 other women that had abortions I was aware of. My step sister was one, and she is a horrible person regardless. The other was a lady i used to work with.

With my sister, it is just another action she has taken that causes me to think more and more poorly of her. She had an abortion out of expedience.

The coworker had 1 because of religious beliefs of her "man", and the fact that she already had 5 kids and was only 20. She was on full medicare for each cihld. They told her, "We don't tie tubes unless you are at least 21, no matter how many kids you have, and no matter how much you request it." Seems strange to me, as they are encouraging more cost and more people of a poor social class.

Regardless, I appreciate your response. And I am sorry that there are some people who have enough hate in their heart to talk to you the way they have in this thread. Not a very Christian behavior, to say the least.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan


Regardless, I appreciate your response. And I am sorry that there are some people who have enough hate in their heart to talk to you the way they have in this thread. Not a very Christian behavior, to say the least.

Thank you.

I'm a tough old broad - - - but appreciate the personal sentiment.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Agreed. And even when you suggest to them that they adopt such and such unwanted child they usually backtrack or come up with a reason why they can't do it.

Nor does it mean that if I am pro-choice I am pro-abortion. I want to see abortions decrease not because they have been outlawed but rather because there is no need beyond medical reasons to have one.

They also assume if you are someone who is infertile you are automatically pro-life. I was unfortunate to be diagnosed at 18 with fertility issues and while devastated (still am on occasion) never did it affect my stance on this issue. I didn't look at it from the point of view "well I can't have any children so now you have to every child you physically can."

I starred your one post where you talked about your experiences as a father because it sounds like you know better than most what it takes to raise a child even in a co-parenting situation.

reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog


Well. I know a lot about being a father doing it my way. I know very little about being a parent in general. No one does. We just all try our best, hope for the best, and enjoy every moment that we can (because there are plenty that you just won't enjoy no matter how hard you try).

One of the downsides of having your grandparents raise their kids in Kwajelein in the 60's seems to be a slew of fertility issues and lupus. Every female in my families generation has lupus, and all have had extraordinary trouble getting pregnant. I have my own issues, but having children wasn't one of them. Can't prove it was Kwaj....but they were there testing missiles over the island (and nukes just over the horizon).

Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog

Nor does it mean that if I am pro-choice I am pro-abortion. I want to see abortions decrease not because they have been outlawed but rather because there is no need beyond medical reasons to have one.

I am Pro Choice - - not Pro Abortion.

Choice - - is a personal Right. Choice - - - the Right for each person to decide what is best for themself.

I made a decision/Choice that was Right for me and my circumstances. If I had made the opposite Choice - - - its still Right of Choice. It is still Pro Choice.

No one is Pro Abortion - - like YAY! HEE HAW! LET'S GO GET AN ABORTION. That is just not how it is.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Couldn't have been more perfect but I just saw a commercial for diapers and it was all fathers taking care of the babies. I hope they start doing more advertisements like this.

I think our society still paints the idea of the father being the provider and the mother being the nurturer when they shouldn't be mutually exclusive.

reply to post by Annee


Sort of the same when pro-lifers start pointing fingers at doctors and calling them "abortion doctors" when they are OB/GYNs. Misnomers are a popular dirty tactic.

My real fear with people wanting to criminalize abortions again is a return to the back alley abortions that all too often meant the death of the woman too.

Originally posted by Annee

NO - - I do not regret it at all. It was the right decision for me and my circumstances.

I see right through this "tough ole' broad" front you're putting up... no regret my ass. The regret can be found in your own writing if one only pays attention...

It was one of those personal discussion cry fests that led to - - well you know.

I'm appalled at how you can be so open about what you did, yet so full of crap about how you felt.
That decision left a hell of a scar and you know it. You lost a piece of your soul that day and became at least a little bit colder and a little bit meaner.

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by Annee

NO - - I do not regret it at all. It was the right decision for me and my circumstances.

I see right through this "tough ole' broad" front you're putting up... no regret my ass. The regret can be found in your own writing if one only pays attention...

You don't see anything.

You are blinded by your own belief - - - which I have no interest in.

Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog
reply to post by Annee

 

Sort of the same when pro-lifers start pointing fingers at doctors and calling them "abortion doctors" when they are OB/GYNs. Misnomers are a popular dirty tactic.

My real fear with people wanting to criminalize abortions again is a return to the back alley abortions that all too often meant the death of the woman too.

Being 66 I am very familiar of the horrors women put up with without choice.

Not only back alley butchers - - - but young women being forced to carry the child - - sent off to homes - - then having the baby ripped away from them never to see it again. Remember you were a minor until age 21.

There was very limited birth control and sexual education.

Women with abusive husbands - - with no recourse but to stay with them.

This was a time before women equality - - where most jobs were low pay - - and you put up with anything to keep your job. Lots of sexual harassment.

Younger people today do not understand just how different it was before legal abortion and women's rights movement.

Originally posted by Annee

You don't see anything.

You are blinded by your own belief

Then maybe you could be so kind as to explain the pause at the end of this statement...

Very emotional times. It was one of those personal discussion cry fests that led to - - well you know.

Was that simply an attempt to "sound" remorseful? Or is that genuine remorse?

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by Annee

You don't see anything.

You are blinded by your own belief

Then maybe you could be so kind as to explain the pause at the end of this statement...

Very emotional times. It was one of those personal discussion cry fests that led to - - well you know.

Was that simply an attempt to "sound" remorseful? Or is that genuine remorse?

That was about ending my marriage.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by Annee

You don't see anything.

You are blinded by your own belief

Then maybe you could be so kind as to explain the pause at the end of this statement...

Very emotional times. It was one of those personal discussion cry fests that led to - - well you know.

Was that simply an attempt to "sound" remorseful? Or is that genuine remorse?

That was about ending my marriage.

I'll stop short of calling BS on that one. I guess I was wrong. I guess you really don't feel any remorse.

reply to post by Bone75


but you should.

It has been painful watching this thread over the last few hours. Time to unsubscribe.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Bone75

 

but you should.

It has been painful watching this thread over the last few hours. Time to unsubscribe.

This is an abortion thread. Those of us who choose to participate in these discussions are very passionate and grounded in our beliefs. I didn't even realize how passionate I was about this subject until joining this site and reading some of these threads. Abortion is something that I rarely get to talk about in the real world because believe it or not, I am sensitive to other people's feelings, and I am surrounded by women who have had at least 1 or 2.

These threads provide me an opportunity to voice my opinion without hurting the feelings of those I am close to.
This isn't the first time Annee and I have butt heads on this issue and I'm sure it won't be the last. She is a formidable opponent who would've never posted her abortion record if she wasn't prepared to face the ridicule.

So no, I don't and shouldn't feel any remorse. All I have done is voice my opinion and asked some tough questions... its not like I killed my baby or anything. (pun intended)

Originally posted by Bone75You lost a piece of your soul that day and became at least a little bit colder and a little bit meaner.

And every male that walks away from a sexual experiance does the same thing and from the time they start with a playboy mag until they leave a teenage 'woman' with a potential child to raise on her own, those males have become pretty damn mean themselves, why would they not be? they started when the sneaked their fathers naughty magazines to become 'men', the centerfold never complained or got , why would the live girl you finally got close to object? The picture or blow up doll never did. Oh she didn't really say yes? Well you saw a lot of movies where no really meant yes. Oh, you were driving the car and you stopped 50 miles from nowhere with no cell phone reception and told her to put out or get out, while she knows her body will not be found even if she still says no but you dont need to beat her to death to have your way... that is not really rape now is it?

Annee,

So now when I come into these type threads I post my story - - my real experience. "Hey! I made this decision. I actually experienced it. Where does your position come from? If its a belief system - - then it's your belief system etc etc".

No disrespect intended,
I have real experience in this area as well.
As someone who should not have made it. I can tell you that, because I now have the voice, abortion is WRONG.
You can justify it anyway you choose but that does not make it right.
I did not have a voice in my mothers womb but now I do.
This one question answers a lot.......
What if I had been aborted?
You would of had to have a very sucky life up to this point to answer any other way than abortion is just wrong.
It is a HUMAN BEING in the womb. You may have the advantage of them not being able to speak for themselves but given the chance what do you think they would say about it?
I was given the chance and I can tell you, IT IS WRONG.

Originally posted by Quadrivium
Annee,

So now when I come into these type threads I post my story - - my real experience. "Hey! I made this decision. I actually experienced it. Where does your position come from? If its a belief system - - then it's your belief system etc etc".

No disrespect intended,
I have real experience in this area as well.
As someone who should not have made it. I can tell you that, because I now have the voice, abortion is WRONG.
You can justify it anyway you choose but that does not make it right.
I did not have a voice in my mothers womb but now I do.

So you yourself did not experience the circumstances to make the decision to have an abortion or not. Got it.

I'm really not interested in your story.

Originally posted by VforVendettea

Originally posted by Bone75You lost a piece of your soul that day and became at least a little bit colder and a little bit meaner.

And every male that walks away from a sexual experiance does the same thing and from the time they start with a playboy mag until they leave a teenage 'woman' with a potential child to raise on her own, those males have become pretty damn mean themselves, why would they not be? they started when the sneaked their fathers naughty magazines to become 'men', the centerfold never complained or got , why would the live girl you finally got close to object? The picture or blow up doll never did. Oh she didn't really say yes? Well you saw a lot of movies where no really meant yes. Oh, you were driving the car and you stopped 50 miles from nowhere with no cell phone reception and told her to put out or get out, while she knows her body will not be found even if she still says no but you dont need to beat her to death to have your way... that is not really rape now is it?

edit on 6-11-2012 by VforVendettea because: (no reason given)

Well of course that's rape, but this isn't about rape, its about abortion. And please don't tell me the 2 go hand in hand because the reality is that less than 1% of abortions are the result of being raped.

I'd also like you to stop putting all the sexual immorality off on men. Women are just as horny as we are... if not more.