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Originally posted by Quadrivium
Please show me which part of my logic you find "messed up"
Based on universally accepted scientific criteria, a new cell, the human zygote, comes into
existence at the moment of sperm-egg fusion, an event that occurs in less than a
second. Upon formation, the zygote immediately initiates a complex sequence of
events that establish the molecular conditions required for continued embryonic
development. The behavior of the zygote is radically unlike that of either sperm
or egg separately and is characteristic of a human organism. Thus, the scientific
evidence supports the conclusion that a zygote is a human organism and that the
life of a new human being commences at a scientifically well defined “moment of
conception.” This conclusion is objective, consistent with the factual evidence, and
independent of any specific ethical, moral, political, or religious view of human life
or of human embryos.
Originally posted by Quadrivium
Not a word about "beliefs" in there
So, if I am correct, you believe that when an abortion occurs then a humans life has not been taken away?
There's no consensus that they are human beings in the scientific community, and their circumstances deem it impossible to treat them and legally grant them the same rights as human beings.
Thus, the scientific evidence supports the conclusion that a zygote is a human organism and that the life of a new human being commences at a scientifically well defined “moment of conception.”
You can sit here and wave your morality and ethics around and call fertilized eggs human beings but this is all you can do at the end of the day. There's no consensus that they are human beings in the scientific community, and their circumstances deem it impossible to treat them and legally grant them the same rights as human beings.
Really? Attack the source huh?
Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog
reply to post by Quadrivium
Any particular reason why you are quoting a document published by a Catholic ethics institute? Seems not only biased but disingenuous.
Here is a startling revelation: I am a mother of two and a woman who earlier in her life had an abortion. I am unapologetically pro-choice. And I know life *begins* at conception (which itself is the product of a complex process), because I kinda already knew that having a child required, as a first step, the successful integration of a sperm and an egg, or fertilization.
In other words, "life" begins at conception, if by "life," we mean the essential starting place of a potential human being. Neither my 16-year-old daughter nor my 13-year-old son would be here if they were not first conceived, if the fertilized eggs had not gone through the process of cell division, successfully implanted in my uterus and developed into healthy embryos, and subsequently gone successfully through the many other phases of development leading to their births.
I don't know where the other quotes are coming from, however, I learned that when a sperm and egg come together and are implanted into my uterus and continue to grow.That is pregnancy.If implanted into my fallopian tube that is ectopic. now what exactly am I choosing?
Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog
reply to post by Quadrivium
Any particular reason why you are quoting a document published by a Catholic ethics institute? Seems not only biased but disingenuous.
Originally posted by Quadrivium
You are putting words in my mouth again.
Originally posted by Southern Guardian
You keep on referring us to an article where it states that human life begins at conception, and I keep on reminding you that human life doesn't automatically mean human being. If you can point to a part of the article where it specifically defines a fertilized egg as an actual human being, I'd be interested.
Thus, the scientific evidence supports the conclusion that a zygote is a human organism and that the life of a new human being commences at a scientifically well defined “moment of conception.”
If I am incorrectly stating your position then why aren't you simply telling us where I got your position wrong? You keep on telling me that "I'm putting words in your mouth", yet you continue to argue the very position I see you continue taking.
Is your position not in the view that fertilized eggs are human beings? Is this not what you're saying?
Is your position not to grant rights to fertilized eggs in the same way as human beings?
These aren't your positions you argue, right? These are just words I'm putting in your mouth? Correct me here, because when a person tells me that aborting a fertilized egg is the same as murdering babies, I have a really hard time understanding how that position doesn't apply to the argument of "personhood" and fertilized eggs.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
of course human life is taken away
Pregnancy begins at implantation. Human life has to begin with conception, but conception is not the same thing as pregnancy, the latter of which reason, science, and medical evidence agree begins when a fertilized egg successfully implants in the uterus and develops into a healthy embryo. Fertilized eggs take between six to 12 days to implant in the uterine lining. There simply is no pregnancy until this happens, which is why any method that prevents fertilization or implantation can not cause an abortion. A large share of fertilized eggs never successfully implant to establish a pregnancy: Between 50 and 80 percent of fertilized eggs never successfully impant and end in spontaneous miscarriage (and before a woman even knows she is pregnant) because of insufficient hormone levels or an non-viable egg or for some other reason.
Anti-choicers are, of course, against both birth control and emergency contraception, which they attack by confusing conception with "personhood," and then misrepresenting the mechanisms of action of contraception and the medical definition of pregnancy to blur the lines between contraception and abortion. By endlessly repeating "life begins at conception," anti-choicers, "egged on," if you will, by the USCCB and fundamentalist evangelicals, are trying to simultaneously sow confusion about when pregnancy begins and how birth control works to declare a fertilized egg to be a person. This is a precursor to promoting their goals of eliminating both contraception and abortion, making abortion the equivalent of murder, and by extension, controlling women's bodies and their economic and social choices.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Seems not only biased but disingenuous.
www.rhrealitycheck.org...
Here is a startling revelation: I am a mother of two and a woman who earlier in her life had an abortion. I am unapologetically pro-choice. And I know life *begins* at conception (which itself is the product of a complex process), because I kinda already knew that having a child required, as a first step, the successful integration of a sperm and an egg, or fertilization.
In other words, "life" begins at conception, if by "life," we mean the essential starting place of a potential human being. Neither my 16-year-old daughter nor my 13-year-old son would be here if they were not first conceived, if the fertilized eggs had not gone through the process of cell division, successfully implanted in my uterus and developed into healthy embryos, and subsequently gone successfully through the many other phases of development leading to their births.
Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog
reply to post by beezzersbride
Funny you should mention that.
About 10-15 years ago my aunt had her fallopian tubes tied because she didn't want to have anymore kids. A couple of years after the procedure my aunt suddenly started to have severe pain in her abdomen and they rushed her to the hospital.
Amen brother,
So you do make a choice but sometimes they come from real places not just opinions.edit on 11/8/2012 by MonkeyFishFrog because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Quadrivium
Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog
reply to post by beezzersbride
Funny you should mention that.
About 10-15 years ago my aunt had her fallopian tubes tied because she didn't want to have anymore kids. A couple of years after the procedure my aunt suddenly started to have severe pain in her abdomen and they rushed her to the hospital.
Rhetoric aside, I am sorry to hear that about your aunt, from what I understand, that can be really painful.
Amen brother,
So you do make a choice but sometimes they come from real places not just opinions.edit on 11/8/2012 by MonkeyFishFrog because: (no reason given)
Quad