Canadian police urge Parliament to pass domestic spying bill

reply to post by fenceSitter


The last time this happened I signed the petition. I wrote to my local MP. Unfortunately for me, the entire province I live in (minus 1 riding) bleeds blue. And with a Conservative majority, my MP (who, btw, got caught with a DUI), will vote the way his party wants him to. There is no hope there.

Off Topic Statement: I want to live somewhere where people vote sensibly... fricken oil neck Albertan's.

Originally posted by denver22

 

I think we have to stop all this putting the blame on the government when civllian - con artists
crime gangs/ kiddy fiddlers are the ones to blame here too...

I hear so many people shouting THE ELITE - THE ELITE ...No it's the general population of the
said catergory are the most to blame...

Who's 'blaming' the government and for what? There is no doubt that the problems are the con artists and pedophiles, we just don't want any of our civil liberties taken away.

So the real problem is the 'general population'? Are you trolling or are you just used to having your civil rights taken away since you live in the UK?

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed


I apologize but I am unsure if your post was sarcasm or meant to be serious.
The government deserves all the blame when it comes to this bill. I urge you to educate yourself about the details of this bill and then tell us that you still stand by what you posted.

I was not being sarcastic i was saying that the public are to blame to .

As others and myself have mentioned, the kiddy fiddlers are horrible people and need to be stopped but this goes beyond that. And for you to doubt the fact that their is a high prevalence of pedophilia among the elite either proves you are uninformed or in denial.

I never doubted.

I believe you have a lot of research to do before you can fully comprehend the complexity of the situation so good luck in your quest for the truth.

Now that was sarcastic or assuming on your part.

Originally posted by fenceSitter


So the real problem is the 'general population'? Are you trolling or are you just used to having your civil rights taken away since you live in the UK?

I am just saying civillians are to blame too and don't call me a troll sir..
what is that all about? im saying both are to blame..

Originally posted by fenceSitter


So the real problem is the 'general population'? Are you trolling or are you just used to having your civil rights taken away since you live in the UK?

Was there any need for that comment when i am merely saying both factions are to blame.
I never said the category only are to blame..

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


I mean no disrespect to anyone and i get attacked for posting my view of it being down to
both factions, the government and the people in my view..

Originally posted by TheSparrowSings
The other thread didn't get the attention that this story needs anyway. I found in the article, when the police chief said "There could be gang members out there, planning murder right now, and there is nothing we could do about it" to be the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard. Talk about trying to "play" up fear and lying just to get support.
I posted in the other thread that someone had told me, after the Amanda Todd stuff, this bill would be resurrected. I didn't believe them at the time... I am eating my words now.

Yup, all this hyperbole as well as that Amanda story is a blatant attempt to line up a kill shot on our internet rights. They are using real issues but are hyping them to absurd levels. I also think this story needs more attention because the internet is one of the only places people are, for the most part, free. When they start dropping the hammer on this, things can easily get out of hand everywhere else.

As for that gangs planning murders over the internet: LOL. Yeah, just picture something like that on Facebook or wherever:

"Gonna kill that b***h**s cop 2nite boyz."
SmokeyThaGun liked this.

reply to post by denver22

I'm not calling you a troll. I just interpreted your post as something along the lines of 'civilians brought it upon themselves'. I think these types of sickening behavior exists in all 'class' levels from the bottom of the barrel (where I like to think most of these people are from) to highest levels of government and wealth. I'd love to see every last one of them locked up...

... but I don't think we need to sacrifice rights to do so. I do not believe that passing this bill will somehow make finding and catching these criminals so much easier.

Originally posted by XLR8R
reply to post by denver22

 

Of course it's not just the Elite. But when people that are supposed to lead be example, our elected officials and people of power, people who we put in positions of trust are part of the problem we have to ask our selves; do we want to keep those creeps in power? We work for them. we elect them, we go to war for them. But of course this is only part of the problem which is even scarier. Pedophilia is only PART of the problem. Plundering, rape, murder, genocide to only name a few. The world is going to hell in a hand basket if the people don't stand up unified and take the power away from those psychopath.

I know all this sir, however both factions are to blame ...
What are we going to do when these criminal gangs get new ideas look what i am saying is
these elite are not the only ones capable of the horrors of the world..


Hackers
people messing with kids
crime gangs battling the system to beat it.
Charlatans predators etc

I do blame the elite too

Originally posted by fenceSitter

I'm not calling you a troll. I just interpreted your post as something along the lines of 'civilians brought it upon themselves'

No i was merely saying the classes all of them are to blame too as i wrote down.

. I think these types of sickening behavior exists in all 'class' levels from the bottom of the barrel (where I like to think most of these people are from) to highest levels of government and wealth. I'd love to see every last one of them locked up...

We are in agreement, both factions or should i say all classes who do wrong.

but I don't think we need to sacrifice rights to do so

i agree again however these crime gangs online fraud predators as such are getting smart just like you're antivirus updates we have to be one step ahead
I feel.

I do not believe that passing this bill will somehow make finding and catching these criminals so much easier.

It will help but what else can we do... ?

denver22, wow, just, wow. To put the entire population of a country into one basket, ie. your all child predators, is insane. So do you mean the entire population are all guilty until the RCMP and the federal government deems you innocent? Don't mean to be rude just asking a question.

I have a sinking feeling there is no stopping this Bill, this time. Short of all Canadians marching on parliament, there is not much we can do. I am not fatalistic but the Conservatives have something now that they didn't have back then. An overly agreeable majority government and opposition parties that are in shambles. Lets all hope that Harper prorogues government, for the 1000th time, and this gets brushed aside for awhile. Allowing Canadians a time to group and react.

Originally posted by RedShirt73
denver22, wow, just, wow. To put the entire population of a country into one basket, ie. your all child predators, is insane. So do you mean the entire population are all guilty until the RCMP and the federal government deems you innocent? Don't mean to be rude just asking a question.

edit on 29-10-2012 by RedShirt73 because: (no reason given)

I didn't say that i said people are to blame the ones that commit these crimes below
too, not just the elite read my posts..

civillian child molestors
criminal gangs cyber thieves etc
charlatan con artists

I repeat not just the eliteists ..

Both are at fault ...

reply to post by denver22


But what this bill is saying is that their (Federal government, RCMP, etc.) can hack your system for even being suspected of a crime. This bill just doesn't go after child molesters, rapists, gang members but the entire population. Say you have 10 speeding tickets, would the government be justified hacking that persons computer just to get info on him/her?

Originally posted by RedShirt73
reply to post by denver22

 

But what this bill is saying is that their (Federal government, RCMP, etc.) can hack your system for even being suspected of a crime. This bill just doesn't go after child molesters, rapists, gang members but the entire population. Say you have 10 speeding tickets, would the government be justified hacking that persons computer just to get info on him/her?

I'm not disputing anything about what you guys are saying
about this bill.Please show me where i have said i dispute it.I think it is wrong too .I am
just pointing out the fact both can be to blame.I doubt they would hack your're computer for
speeding ticket's but rather a more serious crime.

Online gangs and fraudsters con artists criminals have forced the governments hand..

Originally posted by RedShirt73
reply to post by denver22

 

But what this bill is saying is that their (Federal government, RCMP, etc.) can hack your system for even being suspected of a crime. This bill just doesn't go after child molesters, rapists, gang members but the entire population. Say you have 10 speeding tickets, would the government be justified hacking that persons computer just to get info on him/her?

Just to clarify, this bill does not make it legal for police to 'hack' your computer. It allows them to call up your internet provider and request your personal information such as your name, IP address and possibly your history on the internet. The part I don't like is that they would be able to do this without a warrant. There is even talk of requiring ISPs to develop services that police can use to gather that information themselves.

It directly conflicts with Section 8 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms which states that ‘Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.’ Unless you are suspected of a crime, law enforcement should have no right to search your personal activities and even then those suspected activities need to be proven to a judge and have a warrant issued. If getting a warrant is time consuming or troublesome, then maybe they need to look at that process to make it more efficient.

Originally posted by fenceSitter

Originally posted by RedShirt73
reply to post by denver22

 

But what this bill is saying is that their (Federal government, RCMP, etc.) can hack your system for even being suspected of a crime. This bill just doesn't go after child molesters, rapists, gang members but the entire population. Say you have 10 speeding tickets, would the government be justified hacking that persons computer just to get info on him/her?

Just to clarify, this bill does not make it legal for police to 'hack' your computer. It allows them to call up your internet provider and request your personal information such as your name, IP address and possibly your history on the internet. The part I don't like is that they would be able to do this without a warrant. There is even talk of requiring ISPs to develop services that police can use to gather that information themselves.

It directly conflicts with Section 8 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms which states that ‘Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.’ Unless you are suspected of a crime, law enforcement should have no right to search your personal activities and even then those suspected activities need to be proven to a judge and have a warrant issued. If getting a warrant is time consuming or troublesome, then maybe they need to look at that process to make it more efficient.

As I said before, if this bill does indeed go through then Vic Toews would/should be labelled a child predator.

Originally posted by RedShirt73


As I said before, if this bill does indeed go through then Vic Toews would/should be labelled a child predator.

He better get labled and i agree he should ...!!

reply to post by RedShirt73

ust to clarify, this bill does not make it legal for police to 'hack' your computer. It allows them to call up your internet provider and request your personal information such as your name, IP address and possibly your history on the internet. The part I don't like is that they would be able to do this without a warrant. There is even talk of requiring ISPs to develop services that police can use to gather that information themselves.

The last time it was getting tabled it also required ISPs to upgrade their systems so they kept records of every users online habits which had to be stored in massive data modules. This not only is violation of privacy, it gives an unfair advantage to larger ISPs that have more capital to work with installing and maintaining the systems.

One of the major weaknesses with a system like this is the possible corruption within ISP companies themselves, someone who works at one of these corporations in theory, could find a way to access the stored information and have access to a mountain of personal information from credit card numbers, to personal contact information, right up to daily habits.

If the Catholic Church, the TSA and Boy Scouts have taught us anything, it's that delinquents are naturally drawn to careers that give them access and control over other people's lives.

If the Catholic Church, the TSA and Boy Scouts have taught us anything, it's that delinquents are naturally drawn to careers that give them access and control over other people's lives.

Agreed.