Police: Gunman opens fire in chapel of Georgia megachurch; 1 person critically wounded

reply to post by Sissel

True, so, does that make this okay?

These things are happening at schools now, too, which makes it even worse.

Good question. OK? I don't think its ever ok to hurt innocent people, but it certainly makes it expected.

By any means necessary? Most people hate that concept, but most people also hate those who do nothing, or those who just talk and never act. I don't really know what is right or wrong these days.

Originally posted by Sissel

From Spas's to Churches...the amount of recent gun violence in this country recently is amazing to me.

321....here come the gun lovers!

It seems we are not safe anywhere we go.

Are people just becoming more insane, who have access to guns?

Should there be stricter rules on who is allowed to have guns?

I'm baffled.

www.miamiherald.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 24-10-2012 by Sissel because: (no reason given)

i'm suprised it's been so restrained....with the amount of guns, poor people, job loses, foreclosures, lowered pay with part-time work, middle class people losing everything...;.there should be a hell of alot more violence, and shootings.

Originally posted by Sissel

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask


Really? Thats the only way to take it? That really does explain your stance on gun control and this whole issue.....

Maybe you should expand your mind some more.......

It was a jab at a massively large church being run by a man who cares about nothing but money, and what a lucrative business Idea it was.......

Nice try to pigeon hole me into some kind of religion hating man of violence tho........

Prove it. Most large mega church's like the one I attend are in the business of making money somehow, or they wouldn't exist. Mine is so structured that they have day care for church goers, broken down into separate buildings for kids in certain age groups. The also have a book store........restaurants, even a starbucks on their campus. Do I think that is wrong? Nope, it encourages people to hang around and meet other people who are also interested in the faith.

Nobody does anything for free, and that includes Pastors.

Prove it? Whats to prove? You basically tried to call me a religion hating violent person because a comment I made to someone else about this church......

You tried to say that I was condoning the action......

how bout YOU prove thats what I meant? Its quite clear what I was referring to.........

And to be honest I really really really dont care about your church ..........what i was referencing was the information that Hefficide posted, its there in black and white........

If that sent you over the edge id place my bets on you being the angry one here......not me

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask


Prove it? Whats to prove? You basically tried to call me a religion hating violent person because a comment I made to someone else about this church......

Prove that all the guy who runs the church cares about is money.

Somewhere in your odd logic, it was justification for the shooting, which remains to be seen, so, please enlighten us all as to why this was normal for this to happen in a church? Or anywhere else?

reply to post by Sissel


Ummm the pastor this church was investigated by the Senate.

On November 6, 2007, United States Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa announced an investigation of several ministries by the United States Senate Committee on Finance. Grassley asked for financial information to determine whether Dollar made any personal profit from financial donations and requested that Dollar's ministry make the information available by December 6, 2007. The investigation also asked for information from five other televangelists: Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Eddie L. Long, Joyce Meyer, and Paula White.[17]

Source

Kind of hard to defend that or compare it to other churches.

Originally posted by Sissel

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask


Prove it? Whats to prove? You basically tried to call me a religion hating violent person because a comment I made to someone else about this church......

Prove that all the guy who runs the church cares about is money.

Somewhere in your odd logic, it was justification for the shooting, which remains to be seen, so, please enlighten us all as to why this was normal for this to happen in a church? Or anywhere else?

How about reading the above post with this pastor and his long history of money hoarding and investigations by federal officials......

There again, you claim to know something about my logic.......by an offhand comment I made to a mod to throw in some humor....

Youre new here so ill give you a pass.......but you might want to refrain from making accusations on such minimal of speculation........unless you plan to back them up.....which in this case you cant.....its just an all out attack on me......

I never even eluded to any such claims........

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by Sissel

 

Ummm the pastor this church was investigated by the Senate.

On November 6, 2007, United States Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa announced an investigation of several ministries by the United States Senate Committee on Finance. Grassley asked for financial information to determine whether Dollar made any personal profit from financial donations and requested that Dollar's ministry make the information available by December 6, 2007. The investigation also asked for information from five other televangelists: Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Eddie L. Long, Joyce Meyer, and Paula White.[17]

Source

And what was the outcome? Do you have that information handy? Obviously, it wasn't to the detriment of the church or it would no longer be in existence.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask


How about reading the above post with this pastor and his long history of money hoarding and investigations by federal officials......

There again, you claim to know something about my logic.......by an offhand comment I made to a mod to throw in some humor....

Youre new here so ill give you a pass.......but you might want to refrain from making accusations on such minimal of speculation........unless you plan to back them up.....which in this case you cant.....its just an all out attack on me......

I never even eluded to any such claims........

edit on 24-10-2012 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)

I did read that, thanks. And I appreciate you allowing me a pass, since I am new. As for personal attacks....LOL, you are pretty good at that yourself. It's not my intention to personally attack you. I already had a comment to the above post while you were typing yours.

If there was any wrong doing by this church, it wouldn't be in existence, today.

People, as you know being a conspiracy theorist, are accused of things all the time. Now, with that said, what ever happened to being innocent, unless proven guilty?

reply to post by Sissel

I did read that, thanks. And I appreciate you allowing me a pass, since I am new. As for personal attacks....LOL, you are pretty good at that yourself. It's not my intention to personally attack you. I already had a comment to the above post while you were typing yours. If there was any wrong doing by this church, it wouldn't be in existence, today.

Where did i personally attack you again? I simply stated that you seem to have an agenda with the many many many times you mentioned gun control, despite the many times myself and other posters presented logic to you....

In response you basically called me a violent person who condones the actions this man took........

as to the last part of your post......

Just because they are still in existence doesnt mean there was no wrong doing........there are MANY MANY institutions in the US who have repeated violations spanning various types that are still doing business.......Including the catholic church......

This however, is not the topic of your thread..........that is unless when the facts come out, that there was a scandal involved with this church that led to the shooting.......

reply to post by Sissel


Why didn't he go to West Borrow Baptist Church? Way smaller and easier targets. But seriously Jeezz....people...stop shooting each other. You want to shoot someone? Shoot yourself and save us the trouble.

Originally posted by Sissel

Originally posted by ubeenhad
If your scared mofo go to church.
wait.
Doesn't work anymore.

Seriously..even the last bastion of safety, isn't safe anymore!

Since when is a church safe?
There have been shooting in churches for years now. Google search it.

Then google search church bombings.
Churches are dangerous.

Originally posted by butcherguy!Since when is a church safe?
There have been shooting in churches for years now. Google search it.

Then google search church bombings.
Churches are dangerous.

Yes, we discussed this back in the thread. Pretty sad, isn't it?

A nice person posted statistics back in comments as well if you are interested in reading them.

Originally posted by Sissel
Hey, and to any haters on this thread...........DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!

This is really just to point out another yet horrific crime in less than a week in a place where nobody expects gun violence.

As said, little details yet on the incident.

Well, almost nobody expects violence.

www.tithing.com...

And the prescribed killing method?

uzis, of course.

It is a mental disease.

Originally posted by Sissel

From Spas's to Churches...the amount of recent gun violence in this country recently is amazing to me.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but how many women do you think have avoided being kidnapped, raped, or brutalized in some way, because they had a gun to defend themselves. I know one who would be dead if she didn't have a gun (she was approached by someone at a gas station who ordered her into his car, pulled out her gun, and she never had to discharge it, because the guy ran away), so...do you blame guns, or hail them for their ability to allow people to defend themselves?

She would most likely be dead if it wasn't for her gun. Or, at best, she would have been raped, beaten, and left for dead. So...which is it?

Originally posted by Sissel

Originally posted by butcherguy!Since when is a church safe?
There have been shooting in churches for years now. Google search it.

Then google search church bombings.
Churches are dangerous.

Yes, we discussed this back in the thread. Pretty sad, isn't it?

A nice person posted statistics back in comments as well if you are interested in reading them.

edit on 24-10-2012 by Sissel because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-10-2012 by Sissel because: (no reason given)

I started typing my post while this was on page 1. Then I got busy at work, and when I returned to hit send.....
It was on page...
and I said 'wth' to myself.
Then i said 'Oh well.'

Originally posted by Catacomb

Originally posted by Sissel

From Spas's to Churches...the amount of recent gun violence in this country recently is amazing to me.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but how many women do you think have avoided being kidnapped, raped, or brutalized in some way, because they had a gun to defend themselves. I know one who would be dead if she didn't have a gun (she was approached by someone at a gas station who ordered her into his car, pulled out her gun, and she never had to discharge it, because the guy ran away), so...do you blame guns, or hail them for their ability to allow people to defend themselves?

She would most likely be dead if it wasn't for her gun. Or, at best, she would have been raped, beaten, and left for dead. So...which is it?

edit on 24-10-2012 by Catacomb because: (no reason given)

The other sides entire argument(if you avoid unproven conspiracy theories) is that it would be harder for would-be-thugs to gain access to guns if they were banned.

Being a veteran of foreign conflict, and then returning home with a "# it" attitude I became someone who would justify violence with violence. Over time I learned this was wrong, and now am with the mindset I am today. Experiencing both sides of the law, armed, I realized that access to guns is the problem. Most of my battle buddies would have never became a fighter without the support of the US Army. And most of my thug friends would not have robbed anyone if young jeezey didn;t tell them to, and if they didn't live in a city(phoenix, az) with the most relaxed gun laws in the country.

Originally posted by Catacomb


Just playing devil's advocate here, but how many women do you think have avoided being kidnapped, raped, or brutalized in some way, because they had a gun to defend themselves. I know one who would be dead if she didn't have a gun (she was approached by someone at a gas station who ordered her into his car, pulled out her gun, and she never had to discharge it, because the guy ran away), so...do you blame guns, or hail them for their ability to allow people to defend themselves?

She would most likely be dead if it wasn't for her gun. Or, at best, she would have been raped, beaten, and left for dead. So...which is it?

edit on 24-10-2012 by Catacomb because: (no reason given)

I will play devils advocate here too, and say she is extremely lucky he didn't grab the gun away from her and use that in whatever crime he was going to commit as well.

The reason I could never own a gun is because I was taught that if you pull one on somebody you better be willing to use it! I know I never could. No arguments on that one either, please.

Originally posted by Sissel

From Spas's to Churches...the amount of recent gun violence in this country recently is amazing to me.

321....here come the gun lovers!

It seems we are not safe anywhere we go.

Are people just becoming more insane, who have access to guns?

Should there be stricter rules on who is allowed to have guns?

I'm baffled.

www.miamiherald.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 24-10-2012 by Sissel because: (no reason given)

Stricter laws on guns? Won't solve the problem. In the end all you will do is make the rest of the citizens helpless against criminals, because criminals are always going to have access to guns via blackmarket, so in the end all you do is make things worse. I guarantee you if someone knows you have firearms in your house they will think twice about going in there uninvited. This is why carrying guns should be legalized and not only legalized but required by all law abiding citizens. Then you won't see some fool storm into a church, or a post office or a movie theatre with guns blazing, because they know a hail of copper will be flying back at them. Our system is too lenient on crime. If everyone was packing heat people would be on their best behavior and for those who weren't? Well, thats what undertakers were invented for.