Feds: Nevada teen militia leader planned "mass killings"

Originally posted by bowtomonkey

Originally posted by 3chainz
reply to post by Destinyone

 

I didn't say anything anti-gun in the debate thread....I pointed out there was a military grade convert used at Aurora, which was related to the debate itself, that's it.

I'm personally pro-2nd amendment but think there should be stricter rules to buy a gun, like close the gun show loophole. People with schizophrenia should not be able to buy weapons, they are dangerous...They can go to a gun show and buy one with no problem though.

edit on 17-10-2012 by 3chainz because: (no reason given)

You won't get far here. These guys have been brainwashed to think that owning a gun is their 'right' and they have closed their minds to any argument no matter how clear and concise.

Owning a gun is our right.

Bill of Rights.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
If scheming, planning and conspiring are crimes why arent fiction authors rounded up everyday? Why are the professional "wargamers" tried for war crimes? Why isnt the Red Cross arrested for planning and practicing triage? How come all the paintball and airsoft players arent rounded up and sent to Gitmo?

All of those example are far more prepared and capable than some idiot kid with a hardware store pipe bomb.

So why paint the idiot kid as some kind of terror master-mind hellbent on slaughtering thousands?

The difference is intention and capability.

People can write what they want when it relates to fiction. An author writing about the killing of someone is creating fiction, a work of fantasy. A person threatening to actually kill someone SHOULD be treated as though he is a threat!

Your comparison is weak, and quite ridiculous.

reply to post by 3chainz


I'm not sure you're thought this one through.

Of all the thigs he had, the guns were the least lethal.

Those bombs were made with ordinary chemicals you would fine in any high school chemistry lab.

Do you want to ban high school chemistry too?

Originally posted by ElohimJD

Originally posted by bowtomonkey

Originally posted by 3chainz
reply to post by Destinyone

 

I didn't say anything anti-gun in the debate thread....I pointed out there was a military grade convert used at Aurora, which was related to the debate itself, that's it.

I'm personally pro-2nd amendment but think there should be stricter rules to buy a gun, like close the gun show loophole. People with schizophrenia should not be able to buy weapons, they are dangerous...They can go to a gun show and buy one with no problem though.

edit on 17-10-2012 by 3chainz because: (no reason given)

You won't get far here. These guys have been brainwashed to think that owning a gun is their 'right' and they have closed their minds to any argument no matter how clear and concise.

Owning a gun is our right.

Bill of Rights.

Patriot Act.

2nd Line.

Some of the teen’s familiarity with firearms, the court document says, came while he was a member of Boy Scout law enforcement “Explorer Post.” "

Gee, now who would have been the scoutmaster for this 'law enforcement' troop that trained the suspect in firearms use? A cop, of course.

In the E-mail, the document says, Fernandes said the “327th Nevada Militia (has) ...four or five of these members physically attending training.” ... One of the FBI’s three informants in the case...

So, basically, the 'militia' consisted of the patsy and a bunch of undercover cops.

....the young bomb-builder detonated at least three improvised explosive devices on Sept. 11

9/11? 000-eeee-000000!

Originally posted by detachedindividual

A person threatening to actually kill someone SHOULD be treated as though he is a threat!

Did he do that? The article says he made general plans and broad statements. Doesnt say he made specific threats to individuals.

The only thing he's really been charged with is the homemade firecrackers.

I dont know anyone who hasnt made a "bomb" or cannon or other sort of exploding boom toy at some point in their life.

This highlighted passage is quintessential fiction writing / gaming brainstorming:

“He explained that an individual could go to the Bellagio (hotel and casino) and rent a room. According to the defendant, the rooms in the Bellagio are sound proofed so one could sit in the rooms all day long and shoot people on the Strip without anyone knowing where the bullets were coming from.”

Quick, arrest Richard Marcinko for either planning horrible acts or suggesting horrible acts or maybe both.

reply to post by 3chainz


Our country was founded by gun-toting rebels trying to kill and maim the status quo government. three cheers to him and his plan. may the next one succeed.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


I know exactly what you are saying. When I was 19, I cased a bank, and had a solid and serious plan to rob it. Thankfully I came to my senses, and decided against it after a few months of careful planning. If someone came across my plans, should I have been arrested for bank robbery before I actually went through with it?

This stinks to me, I wouldn't be surprised if it was another case of the feds putting the idea into an impressionable teenager's head, teaching him how to make the bombs etc etc. Then swooping in like they are some kind of hero, when in fact they were the mastermind.

The feds need to stop with that crap, it will blow up in their faces. What happens when these taught patsies start getting out of prison? If it was me, I would be plotting my revenge.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

I know exactly what you are saying. When I was 19, I cased a bank, and had a solid and serious plan to rob it. Thankfully I came to my senses, and decided against it after a few months of careful planning. If someone came across my plans, should I have been arrested for bank robbery before I actually went through with it?

Even now as an adult and then some I still think about stuff like that. Even go so far as to get layouts and plan with "ghostmen" how it would all go down.

I'll hear some nonsense on the radio on the way in to work about a heightened terror level or some idiots who bungled a robbery or something and often spend the rest of the work day day-dreaming about how it could have been better done or how some mythical terrorist attack could maximize damages.

Out walking the dog I sometimes consider how a mugging or an assault would take place and game what I would do from both the defenders side and the attackers side.

I've always thought everybody does this from time to time. Maybe I'm wrong and nobody thinks about things other than sports and TV?

For the record it's not just criminal or violent things. Yesterday I was contemplating how I could build a treehouse garage and get a vehicle up there safe and sound. I spend a lot of time figuring out how to get mechanical and electrical machines to do things they may have not been designed to do.

It's simple imagination and creativity with thorough steps and measures rather than abstract grand ideas like the ones politicians are so fond of.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


So, he wasn't planning to kill civilians, he was just being imaginative.

Except that the kid had already built and detonated multiple explosives - it had progressed pretty far past the what if phase. Your ridiculous argument falls flat on its face.

Originally posted by Monger

Except that the kid had already built and detonated multiple explosives - it had progressed pretty far past the what if phase.

Right. And he was charged with the explosive building.

Assuming he will do a thing before he actually does a thing with 100% certainty doesnt strike you as just a bit overzealous?

Human beings are a bit more than a simple if/then statement and pre-crime enforcement doesnt do anyone any good.

This reeks of that Hutaree nonsense where a dozen people were rounded up because somebody somewhere said "I'd like to shoot some cops" only to all be released and recieve settlements months later:

They were the last two Hutaree members still in jail of seven arrested two years ago following an undercover operation by the FBI, and charged with plotting a violent revolt using weapons of mass destruction.

Link

Just more cops pretending to be important to pander to a paranoid population who watches too many Lifetime movies.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere



With me, it's always thinking up and building badass boobytraps. Started when I was about 10 and my uncle started teaching me the survivalist stuff. That included traps to kill food. I just started adapting the same principals for much bigger and smarter prey.

It is fun stuff. If making and setting off kabooms is bad, I guess that makes me bad too. Should seen the ones I set off last fourth, blew some nice craters into my shooting range.

Also like making different little hidden bunkers supply drops.

Most of my free time is either spent working out, out in the woods scouting new trails, and thinking up stuff. I watch very little TV, maybe 5 different TV shows during the year, a movie now and then. I don't even watch much hockey anymore, thats almost a blasphemy here in canuckistan

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

If scheming, planning and conspiring are crimes why arent fiction authors rounded up everyday?

Because they have no actual intent to commit the crime they are writing about. You would have to have evidence thy were, like stockpiling guns, telling people they plan to murder children, and have a bunch of bombs built.

reply to post by AGWskeptic


Um, I never said anything about banning guns.

But even if I did, your argument is weak. Shootings kill more people a year than intentional set bombs do in probably a couple decades.

Plus the chemicals in bombs are used for a variety of actual purposes. Guns are made to kill and that is it.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Uhhhh no. If there is serious evidence someone was planning to kill cops then they should be locked up. I don't think you understand conspiracy to commit crime laws. Muttering a sentence isn't going to get you charges.

Originally posted by Destinyone
reply to post by 3chainz

 

Aaahhhh...I see. Carrying your anti-gun message from the Presidential debate thread to here. Guess you didn't like a lot of the replies you got there.

Des

Yeah, who would of thunk it, Romney is more anti-gun than Obama.

Romney still thinks automatic weapons are banned and wants to keep it that way, except they aren't anymore, so I guess that means Romney wants to ban them again.

Read more: www.foxnews.com...

We of course don't want to have automatic weapons, and that's already illegal in this country to have automatic weapons.

Uh oh, someone is busted as being an anti-gun person.

Originally posted by 3chainz
reply to post by AGWskeptic

 

Um, I never said anything about banning guns.

But even if I did, your argument is weak. Shootings kill more people a year than intentional set bombs do in probably a couple decades.

Plus the chemicals in bombs are used for a variety of actual purposes. Guns are made to kill and that is it.

If the guns go away, the bombs will come out.

In Ohio in the 70's bombs killed more people than bullets for close to 5 years.

Originally posted by 3chainz
reply to post by AGWskeptic

 

Um, I never said anything about banning guns.

But even if I did, your argument is weak. Shootings kill more people a year than intentional set bombs do in probably a couple decades.

Plus the chemicals in bombs are used for a variety of actual purposes. Guns are made to kill and that is it.

If the guns go away, the bombs will come out.

In Ohio in the 70's bombs killed more people than bullets for close to 5 years.

from the ...
Motion for Detention pending trial, United States District Court, District of Nevada
www.freedomfighterradio.net%2fSteven_Fernandes.pdf


"Defendant claimed... that he often wore military type clothing; that he revealed a photograph of his pump shotgun and Mossburg automatic shotgun to one of his teachers; that he told this same teacher that he also owned a 30.06 rifle and a AR-15 that is fully automatic; that defendant was overheard discussing how to make homemade mortar rounds; that one of his fellow students referred to defendant as crazy; that defendant always seemed wound too tight; that the teachers always kept an eye on him; and that they think the FBI should speak to defendant.

"He bragged about being voted the ‘most likely to show up to school and just start killing people.’

"In August of 2012, a Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department (LVMPD) Officer observed defendant wearing a Police vest and directing traffic at a traffic incident in Las Vegas. Defendant had stopped his tan colored Saturn coupe, which displayed bright white flashing lights in the windows, behind the vehicles involved in the traffic incident.

"Defendant also stated that he would like to go to a nursery school and use kids as target practice. He talked about raping or hurting every girl he saw. Fernandes commented several times about hurting babies. He said "I #in hate babies." He said it would be funny to chop off a baby's foot. He also thought it would be funny to blend up a baby in a blender."

---------------

This kid doesn't need incarceration. He needs to:

1) Stop with the Paxil/Ritalin/Adderal

2) Get laid.




/

More details from the
Motion for Detention pending trial, United States District Court, District of Nevada:

"In July of 2012, the Esmeralda County Nevada Sheriff's Office stopped defendant for driving without headlights. During the traffic stop, defendant, who was driving his tan colored Saturn coupe, had in his possession a number of suspicious items, including a gas mask, a 7.62mm Mauser rifle, 150 rounds of ammunition, 20 knives.....
[You might remember the date of the Aurora, CO Batman massacre was on 7-20-12. Interestingly, the motion does not mention the exact day of this traffic stop, but if it was anywhere near the 20th, this should have raised big red flags with the local PD.]

Also interesting is that he has a uniquely different version of why the bombs at Holmes' house failed to detonate:

"In talking with the CHS about the recent mas shooting in Aurora, Colorado .... He stated that the Aurora guy would have killed more people when police went to search his house. However, the booby traps in his house were not actuated. A girl went over to his house to turn down the music while he was gone, and noticed something funny before going into his house. If she had not gone over in advance, then the explosives he setup would have worked."

The official version of events at James Holmes' apartment that night was that biology student Kaitlyn Fonzi, who lives below Holmes, says loud techno music began playing in his apartment promptly at midnight. Against the advice of her boyfriend, Fonzi says she went up and banged on the door but no one answered. She said she called police to report the loud music, which was playing on a loop and stopped at exactly 1 a.m., she says.

So the question is, did Fernandez have a little inside info on what really transpired at Holmes' apartment? Did the neighbor going into that house to turn off the loud music in fact unknowingly deactivate the trigger to the bombs? How else did the loud music playing on a loop get shut off?

Did the suspect have connections where he could have found out the truth? Fernandez strongly hinted that he did have access to people who might have been privy to such events:

"Defendant claimed to be proficient at shooting firearms due to his past Las Vegas Metro Police Department Explorer program involvement;

"Each of the 327th members, who are viewed by defendant as private security contractors, have individual jobs within the militia,

"The source reported that defendant is not worried about discussing improvised explosives with individuals or posting his contact information on blog websites. Defendant claims to be so well connected and protected that he does not have to fear anything.

"On September 10, 2012, in Utah, a third reliable human source (“CHS”) advised that Defendant purports to train with homemade explosives (HME) at the DOA Tactical training facility in Southern Utah."
(D0A Tactical is some kind of privately operated shooting and sniper training school. See doatactical.com...)