Satellite Images of the CIA's Secret Bin Laden Training Facility

Originally posted by buddhasystem
does it really matter?

Oh well, I guess it's a fascinating subject after all, and I just don't see it as such.

Like I said it wasn't fascinating enough for me to buy the seal's book. But it's not every day a manhunt that lasted over a decade is finally concluded, so it's at least unusual.

Originally posted by steppenwolf86
Nothing about the mission itself was impossible or even that unusual other than the full size mockup, which was not so much for training purposes as it was to convince the brass that the operation could be carried out successfully.

And I thought it was mostly for training. So they really couldn't convince the brass without the mockup?

Thanks for the additional insights.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
"Not exactly in a hurry"? It never dawned on you that it might have actually been DIFFICULT to pull this one off?

They certainly had to plan for the possibility that it would be difficult to deal with the security of a multimillionaire who had a multi-million dollar price tag on his head. If they catch everyone by surprise and that makes it easier, that's a bonus.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by buddhasystem
does it really matter?

Oh well, I guess it's a fascinating subject after all, and I just don't see it as such.

Like I said it wasn't fascinating enough for me to buy the seal's book. But it's not every day a manhunt that lasted over a decade is finally concluded, so it's at least unusual.

Originally posted by steppenwolf86
Nothing about the mission itself was impossible or even that unusual other than the full size mockup, which was not so much for training purposes as it was to convince the brass that the operation could be carried out successfully.

And I thought it was mostly for training. So they really couldn't convince the brass without the mockup?

Thanks for the additional insights.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
"Not exactly in a hurry"? It never dawned on you that it might have actually been DIFFICULT to pull this one off?

They certainly had to plan for the possibility that it would be difficult to deal with the security of a multimillionaire who had a multi-million dollar price tag on his head. If they catch everyone by surprise and that makes it easier, that's a bonus.

That comes from the book, but the mockup was certainly overkill, as seals and other Special Ops teams routinely fly off on missions without rehearsals. These guys are true pros, show them a map or drawing of a site, where they have to be and what they have to do, and they will take it down with ease. The raid itself was nothing spectacular, Obama just needed to be convinced.

The book is worth it, there is nothing earth shattering in it, especially for people who have read many like it. But if you are new to the subject you will learn quite a bit, and gain a lot of respect for these anonymous men. The one thing that annoyed me was the press making a big deal out of what he wrote about Obama/Biden... In actuality it was less than half a page.

I find it a little too hard to believe that OBL was shot on sight. Just think what treasure trove of information this guy is. I'm not saying "was".

The book was a big great cover up, to give credibility to the notion that he was killed. It is my opinion that he was quickly whisked away to face the (probably ongoing) interrogation. And then we have the silly "burial at see" thing. Yeah right.

So the author of the Spec Ops book is the "fall guy", who took the blame for being a traitor while being in fact a patriot. He had to resign from the force and all.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
I find it a little too hard to believe that OBL was shot on sight. Just think what treasure trove of information this guy is. I'm not saying "was".

The book was a big great cover up, to give credibility to the notion that he was killed. It is my opinion that he was quickly whisked away to face the (probably ongoing) interrogation. And then we have the silly "burial at see" thing. Yeah right.

So the author of the Spec Ops book is the "fall guy", who took the blame for being a traitor while being in fact a patriot. He had to resign from the force and all.

Get your facts straight. He retired, then wrote the book, mostly because he was upset at all the BS the media came up with. They got all of OBLs computers, notes, videos, everything.

reply to post by buddhasystem


difficult? one old man having medical problems in a bed surrounded by few women and maybe a few others compared with a hundred billion dollar a year military the RICHEST military in the WORLD.

no not difficult at all,

however from the perspective of it only being a handful of people, seal team six, sure that makes it a bit harder, then you must ask why the hell they would leave it to only a team, time was more important, and in this case they wanted it handled by a small team at the right time, rather then ASAP as so many americans demanded, they choose to ride it out till the pres knew he had a good PR moment for it.

just how it appears to me.

as someone who grew up listening to military stories from my parents and other relatives who served each decades of their own, im pretty confident it wasnt difficult at all our military is pretty damn capable of alot, and this one dude despite having millions (from the us) was still old and bed ridden in a single house,


mute point, they only question im trying to ask here is how is it justifiable that they delayed taking action for such an amount of time to be able to totally rebuild a mock up of ladens house? i guess when it comes to military discretion its their decision and we can all # off right? not like they have any oversight or owe any answers to the taxpayers funding them......

reply to post by steppenwolf86


it was not that long of a time you say? by this comment you clearly must know just how long of a time it actualy was, so just say it, how long did it take them to build this mock up compound then train in it? how much time did they know his whereabouts before actually "going in for the kill" if you dont have an answer to that then you cant say what you just said without guessing and making assumptions, if you guess and make assumptions in defense of the government then you certainly are the perfect sheep.

if they werent even sure if it was his compound then why the hell would they build a mock up of the building and train in it? seems that is a clear indicator they knew where he was.

why are you telling me not to second guess something? defensive much? besides what i questioned was not the mission but the amount of time it took them to actually act it out from the time they knew his location.

reply to post by steppenwolf86


btw you telling that guy to "get his facts straight" then you didnt actually say anything that contradicted his own conjecture other then your own conjecture, hardly any facts present at all, nothing but opinion vs opinion.

reply to post by Jason88


Ya I think this was the other location

Originally posted by pryingopen3rdeye
reply to post by steppenwolf86

 

btw you telling that guy to "get his facts straight" then you didnt actually say anything that contradicted his own conjecture other then your own conjecture, hardly any facts present at all, nothing but opinion vs opinion.

According to the book, the Seals found out in early spring, and by that time the mock up was already built. Once they were in Afghanistan, the mission was postponed one day because of cloud cover, since the drones would not be able to see through it. Also, they usually fly these missions when the moon is darkest. So is that an unreasonable delay?

I really do not understand WHAT you are arguing here, it is not as if an attack was carried out while the mission was being debated. If anything, the Intelligence Agencies and the Military are not to blame for any perceived delay, the blame for that falls on the politicians. The CIA tracked down the driver and intercepted a phone call saying that he was working for his previous employer(UBL) in 2010, and that was what led to finding the compound.

Once again, even with the luxury of hindsight, what would have been prevented, or where is the advantage in taking him out earlier than they did? If you are going to second guess something that was successful, at least come armed with more than conspiracy theories.

Also, I told the guy to get his facts straight because he stated that the author of the book Mark Owen left the Navy due to the repercussions of writing the book when in fact he simply decided to call it a career and wrote the book after becoming fed up with conspiracy theories and dumb media speculation. He dedicates at least 10 pages to how he was fed up over the details of the mission becoming public and the stupidity of many in the media. He is not viewed as a traitor by his team mates, and claims to be giving most of the money earned from the book to charities that look after families of fallen SEALs. The only people calling him a traitor have not read the book, he reveals nothing that is secret, and does not even mention that the Blackhawks were of the stealth variety.

Also, you seem to be criticizing me because I read the book and refuse to spoon feed the facts to everyone... How is it my fault that I did the backround research needed to comment on this thread? Why is it my responsibility to back up every statement I make when you can find out the truth just as easily?

Furthermore, the reason they used the SEALs is because THIS IS WHAT THEY DO. This is the exact mission they train for day and night for years. You are going onto foreign soil and need to get in/out quickly because there is a base right down the road, you send in the guys who specialize in this area, a small elite team.

Also, it wasnt like they build a replica of the house with marble countertops. They had no idea of what the inside looked like, and they simply stacked up containers to mimic the wall and the doors the teams would enter by. The only thing they knew about the inside of the home was the correct assumption that it was split into two different areas, the top for Bin Ladens family and the bottom for the Driver or drivers brother. They only really knew that Bin Laden always came out of the same door, and that no one but his family used that entrance. So yeah, how long does it take to stack containers in the general layout of a building? A day or two is my guess. HUGE DELAY, CONSPIRACY!

Originally posted by pryingopen3rdeye
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

difficult? one old man having medical problems in a bed surrounded by few women and maybe a few others compared with a hundred billion dollar a year military the RICHEST military in the WORLD.

no not difficult at all

Apparently you didn't bother to read my post and/or try to understand the rather simple concept I presented. I never said that shooting a person in the head was difficult. What I said was simply that I believe it was to the US advantage to capture him alive.

Originally posted by steppenwolf86

Originally posted by buddhasystem
I find it a little too hard to believe that OBL was shot on sight. Just think what treasure trove of information this guy is. I'm not saying "was".

The book was a big great cover up, to give credibility to the notion that he was killed. It is my opinion that he was quickly whisked away to face the (probably ongoing) interrogation. And then we have the silly "burial at see" thing. Yeah right.

So the author of the Spec Ops book is the "fall guy", who took the blame for being a traitor while being in fact a patriot. He had to resign from the force and all.

Get your facts straight. He retired, then wrote the book, mostly because he was upset at all the BS the media came up with. They got all of OBLs computers, notes, videos, everything.

He got out, he didn't retire from the Navy. He's only 35/36 yrs old, depending on the article you read. He did 14 yrs active duty from what i've read.

He pretty much got out to write the book. Now he's in talks with Speilberg to do a movie. Supposedly proceeds from the book are going to wounded veterans programs and foundations. I hope the same happens with the movie, if it comes about.

Confident the SEALS didn't need this and would have been fine without.

reply to post by Jason88

One of the reasons U.S. Navy SEALs were able to so skillfully execute the raid on Osama bin Laden's compound....

Please explain what is skill full about murdering an unarmed man... He should have been arrested and tried in a court of law. None should be above or below the due course of law... Of course dead men do not talk.. Do they...?

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by Jason88

 

One of the reasons U.S. Navy SEALs were able to so skillfully execute the raid on Osama bin Laden's compound....

Please explain what is skill full about murdering an unarmed man... He should have been arrested and tried in a court of law. None should be above or below the due course of law... Of course dead men do not talk.. Do they...?

I'm on the fence with this one. On one hand I wish he was alive to properly go through the US justice system and to hear what he has to say about 9/11. On the other, now that OBL is dead we no longer having to hear about him in the present tense.

I don't know what to believe. As you say, "dead men do not talk" or tell "tales" as pirates used to say, though It may have been very important hear what he had to say during the course of a trial. God knows, the US did train him and that is a fact so there was a lot more to learn that we don't know about.

As for the Seals, all I have to say is "perfect practice makes perfect."

Originally posted by bg_socalif

Originally posted by steppenwolf86

Originally posted by buddhasystem
I find it a little too hard to believe that OBL was shot on sight. Just think what treasure trove of information this guy is. I'm not saying "was".

The book was a big great cover up, to give credibility to the notion that he was killed. It is my opinion that he was quickly whisked away to face the (probably ongoing) interrogation. And then we have the silly "burial at see" thing. Yeah right.

So the author of the Spec Ops book is the "fall guy", who took the blame for being a traitor while being in fact a patriot. He had to resign from the force and all.

Get your facts straight. He retired, then wrote the book, mostly because he was upset at all the BS the media came up with. They got all of OBLs computers, notes, videos, everything.

He got out, he didn't retire from the Navy. He's only 35/36 yrs old, depending on the article you read. He did 14 yrs active duty from what i've read.

He pretty much got out to write the book. Now he's in talks with Speilberg to do a movie. Supposedly proceeds from the book are going to wounded veterans programs and foundations. I hope the same happens with the movie, if it comes about.

Nitpick much?

Originally posted by steppenwolf86

Originally posted by pryingopen3rdeye
reply to post by steppenwolf86

 

btw you telling that guy to "get his facts straight" then you didnt actually say anything that contradicted his own conjecture other then your own conjecture, hardly any facts present at all, nothing but opinion vs opinion.

According to the book, the Seals found out in early spring, and by that time the mock up was already built. Once they were in Afghanistan, the mission was postponed one day because of cloud cover, since the drones would not be able to see through it. Also, they usually fly these missions when the moon is darkest. So is that an unreasonable delay?

I really do not understand WHAT you are arguing here, it is not as if an attack was carried out while the mission was being debated. If anything, the Intelligence Agencies and the Military are not to blame for any perceived delay, the blame for that falls on the politicians. The CIA tracked down the driver and intercepted a phone call saying that he was working for his previous employer(UBL) in 2010, and that was what led to finding the compound.

Once again, even with the luxury of hindsight, what would have been prevented, or where is the advantage in taking him out earlier than they did? If you are going to second guess something that was successful, at least come armed with more than conspiracy theories.

Also, I told the guy to get his facts straight because he stated that the author of the book Mark Owen left the Navy due to the repercussions of writing the book when in fact he simply decided to call it a career and wrote the book after becoming fed up with conspiracy theories and dumb media speculation. He dedicates at least 10 pages to how he was fed up over the details of the mission becoming public and the stupidity of many in the media. He is not viewed as a traitor by his team mates, and claims to be giving most of the money earned from the book to charities that look after families of fallen SEALs. The only people calling him a traitor have not read the book, he reveals nothing that is secret, and does not even mention that the Blackhawks were of the stealth variety.

Also, you seem to be criticizing me because I read the book and refuse to spoon feed the facts to everyone... How is it my fault that I did the backround research needed to comment on this thread? Why is it my responsibility to back up every statement I make when you can find out the truth just as easily?

Furthermore, the reason they used the SEALs is because THIS IS WHAT THEY DO. This is the exact mission they train for day and night for years. You are going onto foreign soil and need to get in/out quickly because there is a base right down the road, you send in the guys who specialize in this area, a small elite team.

Also, it wasnt like they build a replica of the house with marble countertops. They had no idea of what the inside looked like, and they simply stacked up containers to mimic the wall and the doors the teams would enter by. The only thing they knew about the inside of the home was the correct assumption that it was split into two different areas, the top for Bin Ladens family and the bottom for the Driver or drivers brother. They only really knew that Bin Laden always came out of the same door, and that no one but his family used that entrance. So yeah, how long does it take to stack containers in the general layout of a building? A day or two is my guess. HUGE DELAY, CONSPIRACY!

edit on 11-10-2012 by steppenwolf86 because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-10-2012 by steppenwolf86 because: (no reason given)

so you believe "the book" then hope is already lost on you, you actualy believe as the book states that they finished building a mock up of bin ladens home BEFORE they even knew where he was...... that makes alot of #ing sense alright then you actualy tell me not to discuss conspiracy theories...l. on THIS site..... tell me then, what IS the purpose of this site? rhetorical, it is to DISCUSS CONSPIRACY THEORIES!

yes he wrote the book and retired is your point of view, and the person you argued withs point of view is he wrote the book and was persuaded to retire, either of you have any proof one way or the other? no, hence my point, it is only opinion. not FACT as you claim it to be, your only reason for believing that? was reading it in the book, like i said youve already swallowed the books story as fact, hope is lost on you

and then you describe as if it is FACT in detail how they contructed the house what it was made out of and what its insides looked like... have you seen it yourself? are you witness to it? no, rather you swallowed all that right out of the book and nothing more, yet it is fact to you,

reply to post by buddhasystem


yes they wanted to capture him alive thats why when they found him unarmed in bed they killed him, lota sense there. surely is a simple concept glad you can grasp it.........

Originally posted by pryingopen3rdeye
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

yes they wanted to capture him alive thats why when they found him unarmed in bed they killed him, lota sense there. surely is a simple concept glad you can grasp it.........

At least I have a book to reference, you have nothing.

I never said they built the mock up before they knew who he was/where he was.

He was killed when he peaked around the corner as someone who had a weapon would do, he stuck his head out and was shot. They had intended to take him alive up to that point, when they thought he was armed.

I am done with this thread, if you are going to criticize me for believing the book and you offer nothing of substance on your part, and NOTHING to reference. Sure, this site is for conspiracy theories, but what is the point of conspiracy theories when the truth makes so much more sense?

You never even answered my main question: What would have been the benefit of going into Abottobad on an earlier date? Your objective seems to be to sew doubt, but when all of your nonsense is easily refuted, all you are left holding is wild conspiracy theories without a source. Sadly typical of this site, question everything and remain uniformed should be the motto.

Originally posted by steppenwolf86

Originally posted by bg_socalif

Originally posted by steppenwolf86

Originally posted by buddhasystem
I find it a little too hard to believe that OBL was shot on sight. Just think what treasure trove of information this guy is. I'm not saying "was".

The book was a big great cover up, to give credibility to the notion that he was killed. It is my opinion that he was quickly whisked away to face the (probably ongoing) interrogation. And then we have the silly "burial at see" thing. Yeah right.

So the author of the Spec Ops book is the "fall guy", who took the blame for being a traitor while being in fact a patriot. He had to resign from the force and all.

Get your facts straight. He retired, then wrote the book, mostly because he was upset at all the BS the media came up with. They got all of OBLs computers, notes, videos, everything.

He got out, he didn't retire from the Navy. He's only 35/36 yrs old, depending on the article you read. He did 14 yrs active duty from what i've read.

He pretty much got out to write the book. Now he's in talks with Speilberg to do a movie. Supposedly proceeds from the book are going to wounded veterans programs and foundations. I hope the same happens with the movie, if it comes about.

Nitpick much?

No, not very often.