Is the lower class gone or being written off? I dont hear any discussing them @ all in the debates?

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


It's because they think we're all just a bunch of lazy no good moocher whiners living off government subsidies, we are the new slave class (As far as rights and respect are concerned). Shoot if they hear I turned down men asking me "do you want to make some money?" (In other words they were trying to solicit me for sex) They'd probably use that to prove that see just some of you are too lazy and don't want to work. No A$$hat, I don't want to desecrate my spirit and principles, nor objectify or degrade myself. That doesn't make me lazy, that makes me someone with values tyvm.

reply to post by queenannie38


You're wrong dead wrong...I love food all kinds, and the only thing I refuse to touch or make is tuna casserole.

And I'm not wealthy, but I'd rather have spaghetti with butter and garlic powder before tuna casserole. Just had to add that.
And soo sorry about going off topic but I had to interject here.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Let me ask you (and this is the second time I have posed this question in this thread)....exactly who is it that would consider themselves "lower class"? No matter how poor someone is, they will generally look at themselves as "middle class", even if near homeless. What differentiates lower and middle class? Is it really income? Because I know people with only welfare income who enjoy a better standard of living than myself (an executive with a wife that is a nurse). While anyone on Earth would call me "middle class", i would retort with "there is no middle class any more". And I feel it, too.

bigfatfurrytexan, my bad for not responding to your comment kinda got feeling that the lower class doesn't matter but on topic.
[color=cyan] @exactly who is it that would consider themselves "lower class"?
I personally wouldn't consider any sapiens sapiens who dwell on this sphere anything other then a striving herd to clear- now who within this thread is 1 considering the lower class in relation to debates for elections, that would be those who are the people of this nation who seem to be the left behinds to summarize it up.

-Those who may not have sustainable funds in their bank accounts to keep up on their bills so they have fallen to check to check lifestyles or are seeking loans with high interest rates attached that can possibly sink them further into debt- They need a president who does or will keep them in mind as he regulates.

-Those who are the hard workers who work the less paying jobs to feed their families but may depend on a good decisions making president to at least provide better future visions/debates for their offspring to get a chance to experience the American dream. So a father and mother working may have subsidized housing or rent or something similar and may want to have and experience the American dream to (buy a house gain the financial integrity to support their family and children with credit who may enter college). Some may have even seen it becoming a reality but as of now cannot fully adjust to the interest rates the banks of today are producing for their credit cards or mortgages car payments ect.

This is why I ask these people may have had past issues with their families (like parents on drugs or parents bankrupt ect) and have overcome them but are just now getting to a level of lower class recognition since they don't possess stock/credit and enough money within their accounts to even make a down payment on their property or business ect (dont they count too????????? is the OP question more less) ?

These bigfatfurrytexan are the people I am discussing but not only for there are some within middle class boundaries who if they experience a 'wrong turn' from the influences may be on their way to the next level down all based off of bad decision making from presidential candidates. This should be another reason for those close to actual lower class who are still lower middle class to want to keep in mind the lower class experiences. But it seems the lower class is looked at like well get up already do something (but with no real guidance)??? or plan for them to thrive? they vote too but I guess if they live in impoverishment areas their votes really dont count that much?

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
So, how do you pit the "middle class" against the "lower class"? Does anyone really say that they are "lower class"? I would bet that most Americans see it as an insulting term (in this hypermaterialistic society that we have). And I doubt that many would self identify in such a manner, regardless of the reality of their circumstances.

I claimed it, and yes it was a hard ride watching mom & dad at that point in time trying to work to look out for us to the point @ 14-15yrs old I went to get my workers permit to help out and by 16 I didnt feel mom who was alone at that point should have to by my school clothes since she had my younger siblings behind me as well to look out for. And this is what I am saying there are many issues that are overlooked and yet part of society seems important why another part seems expandable smh.

It seems this type of thinking and behaving with not acknowledging the lower class may have played parts in failing empires of the past (maybe that's why) ??? hmm those empires didnt support all of the men?
cont..

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

When you hear the term "lower class" used in politics, it is used during times of financial prosperity to help push social programs through by making people feel like they are helping out those poor unfortunate saps. When the prosperity ends, the political debate is about the "middle class", because to talk about "lower class" would alienate 99% of the nation. No one identifies as lower class, they only thing of others in that way.

Yes its observed but many in those lower class poor sap positions people are strong due to experiencing struggle (MESSIAH ANYONE) and may have input to assist a better world. I always think link man wants this cure and that cure or this tech or that, but what if the Creator intentionally placed those who could produce these cures or techs inside 3rd world or lower class situations to signal a species advancing together?

bigfatfurrytexan thanks for your time and input

Originally posted by Bluesma
The lower class ain't got no computers. They don't count none in this cyber werld.

I'm kidding. I am not in the US and don't know what all is up there.

(though I don't deny there isn't something to consider there, about the modern world and communication....)

edit on 7-10-2012 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)

I can understand your not in the US but the policies here may effect where you are so its still just as important Bluesma. Thanks


NAMASTE*******

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman

The lower class and impoverished classes are just a glorified political football. Used as a ends to a political means.

Which in some ways means they don't matter, wow nice to know I didn't matter when I was in the projects growing up hmmm. Wild thing is I knew I didnt as do many who still are growing up in those hoods smh

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


Right now both sides in this political battle see clearly that the middle class are the ones that need won over. Thats all. No one has forgotten the poor or the wealthy.

In fact the middle class sees itself as the ones that pay for it all. The poor mans free cell phone and the rich mans yacht. To the middle class the poor or the rich mans whining is equaly disgusting.

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman

The lower class and impoverished classes are just a glorified political football. Used as a ends to a political means.

Which in some ways means they don't matter, wow nice to know I didn't matter when I was in the projects growing up hmmm. Wild thing is I knew I didnt as do many who still are growing up in those hoods

smh

Well if you ever ate off of food stamps or live by some government means you can thank the middle class......cause were thinkin about you.

Originally posted by Pilot

I digress, not trying to be off topic, but when the systems are not constructed to favor certain individuals, and they ARE constructed to favor others, I look to the systems as the origin of "lower" classes existing in the first place.
A conceptual leap but I think still fairly on topic.

Ok I see your point now Pilot makes sense. At times I can see it that way as well as it segregates and forgets some who are part of the nation as well.

Originally posted by Pilot

I don't know why politicians say half the crap they say, usually it's diversionary, so to the point, they aren't discussing the poor because pretty soon, the poorest of the poor are going to be on their own. The drought that hit the states this year has sent food prices way up, and I'll bet food stamps won't be increased to make up the difference. Whomever gets the presidency will not have the power to do anything about it because by then we will be caught up in another military operation somewhere in the world, and money will be ever tighter, even for the mythical middle class.

I think you see or sense what I sense all the way down to the mythical middle class smh if not worst.

Originally posted by Pilot

All this class talk is another divide and conquer bit. We are one species that certain members of which like to control and abuse the rest. There are issues both rich and poor can agree upon, but that won't happen, the divide is psychological concrete, and takes effort to break.

Rambling, but more on topic?

ALL appreciated Pilot you make very good points here the conscious segregation within some is amazing and very deceptive. I cannot feel better then another knowing we both or all are still in learning phases of EA*RTH still and cannot even go beyond financial gain = power but it is what it is until all see we all need to help each other. If you place everyone outside you kingdom in poverty and the numbers begin to out number those inside the kingdom who are not poor what do you think the numbers will do?????

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman

The lower class and impoverished classes are just a glorified political football. Used as a ends to a political means.

Which in some ways means they don't matter, wow nice to know I didn't matter when I was in the projects growing up hmmm. Wild thing is I knew I didnt as do many who still are growing up in those hoods

smh

Well if you ever ate off of food stamps or live by some government means you can thank the middle class......cause were thinkin about you.

Which is why I dont mind payng taxes to assist others who may need the assistance now. Point accepted.

Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

 

It's because they think we're all just a bunch of lazy no good moocher whiners living off government subsidies, we are the new slave class (As far as rights and respect are concerned).

I hear you Idyserenity and many will be shocked when its realized who are the real slaves and who are the brightest within this herd who tried their best to manage what they had with what they had and didn't fall into materialistic im better then you ego fail which may require more school but that's another topic. I dont know ldyserenity you would think in these days many would of just seen the issues globally and said this will fix it but instead its mean looks and more weapons smh.

Originally posted by ldyserenity
. That doesn't make me lazy, that makes me someone with values tyvm.

edit on 8-10-2012 by ldyserenity because: spelling

Keep those values they are soul strengthening overall never sell yourself short. and thanks for stopping by and sharing some input

NAMASTE*******

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


Enjoying your thread and everyone's responses. Thanks Ophichus.

one thing I have to admit is when I hear the word "class", I experience a visceral understanding of this word as an outmoded, old world construct, and at the same time a reality that is uncouth to discuss, like religion and politics. It is fairly driven into your head that our great democracy has transcended something so backward, like monarchy and a peerage.

Yet you certainly experience the class differences in real life. It's just not a subject many people are willing to discuss freely in a reasonable manner. wingnuts like to use the term "class warfare" to whip up more discomfort around the subject. I hear poor people whisper their resentment toward the well off, and you don't have to look hard to find "upper class" hysteria over "welfare queens".
The exploitation of those emotions about class keeps the divisions alive, and it is not easy to break free from. I know it is possible. Shame is one of the biggies.

It's easy enough to imagine how shame is visited on the poor while still in childhood. When they get to school, they learn that the Dentist or Executives kid gets treated better by teachers, and they set the trends, etc. Those same privileged kids might grow up feeling a bit of shame and guilt for their privilege, and get jobs in the public sector, to help the poor. It's all so stupid and uninteresting how we get funneled into these roles because of economics and everything important about being human is secondary to this false god.

Can't we move on? I'm so booooored!! There is always an alternative. It is useful to ask, "what" at this point. I don't think we can pre-plan a revolution. I think what makes a revolution authentic is an energetic groundswell that emerges spontaneously, and cannot be predicted. I think it would be amazing to be a part of a non-violent revolution in my lifetime, we just have to imagine what it might look like, not try to have all the pieces of the puzzle in place beforehand. All we have to do is imagine.

I think a fun mass experiment would be: "Tell someone how you really feel day" Criteria: something you are dying to tell someone, but hadn't the nerve. whether it's "I love you" or "YOU SUCK" just do it, and the earth will shiver with delight at all the released energy of truth.

Just an idea.

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13

These bigfatfurrytexan are the people I am discussing but not only for there are some within middle class boundaries who if they experience a 'wrong turn' from the influences may be on their way to the next level down all based off of bad decision making from presidential candidates. This should be another reason for those close to actual lower class who are still lower middle class to want to keep in mind the lower class experiences. But it seems the lower class is looked at like well get up already do something (but with no real guidance)??? or plan for them to thrive? they vote too but I guess if they live in impoverishment areas their votes really dont count that much?

Most of what you describe is me. I am an executive with a wife that is a nurse. We live paycheck to paycheck. Not always, but usually. Especially since I have had a string of job losses (call center closed down, hotel i was running was bought out and all managers fired, etc). I am smart enough, however, to realize that I can offer myself as a person with all the knowledge of a college graduate, but with no degree and 15 years experience. And I offer this at a bargain rate, only really wanting to make a living and to gain the sheer pleasure of being able to outperform my peers (my little chip on my shoulder is mostly regarding the college certificate of indoctrination).

However, my question about who is "lower class" was mostly rhetorical, meant to catalyze thought.

When you ask, "why does no one talk about the lower class anymore? Do they not care?", the ansewr is simple: because of political speaking.

Right now the majority of the nation would fall into the lower class. But no one wants to be called "lower class". So when the presidential debates, at the current moment, refer to "middle class relief", they are actually meaning "lower class relief". They are using the words that people self identify as.

When times are good, they refer to the "lower class" because the majority of people know they aren't hurting, and the bigger gain in votes comes from the feeling that the candidates give that they will help us be more charitable. It makes us feel pious when times are good to talk about helping those poor "lower class".

Let me ask you this: are you concerned with the lower class because you, yourself, are struggling to make ends meet? Or because you are concerned about your fellow human? I don't ask this in any sarcastic way, so please don't take it as such. But your answer may, if put in the framework of the above, answer your initial question from the OP.

BTW, for what its worth....i grew up poor oilfield trash. Life in the West Texas during the big bust years of the 80's was no cake walk. Matter of fact, I remember winning a cake at a cake walk, and how excited the whole family was to have it at home that night. I remember getting food from churches and food pantries. I remember having only 1 pair of Wrangler jeans for the school year (we couldn't afford the more fashionable Levi's). And wearing shoes bought from Safeway (nope...no social acceptance for me growing up). I remember the big Christmas my little sister had one year when she had her name selected from the Angel Tree by some very generous benefactor (who is still, to this day, anonymous to us). I have been there. I still work to be there. The poor...they are my people. Why do you think I do so well as a business manager? My people see me as "one of them", not "the man". Because I grew up with them. I think most of us have a similar story, to be honest.

Originally posted by Pilot
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

 

Enjoying your thread and everyone's responses. Thanks Ophichus.

one thing I have to admit is when I hear the word "class", I experience a visceral understanding of this word as an outmoded, old world construct, and at the same time a reality that is uncouth to discuss, like religion and politics. It is fairly driven into your head that our great democracy has transcended something so backward, like monarchy and a peerage.

Yes the way the word labels many seems to degrade somewhat so i too can understand how you feel about hearing it and I also relate it to an old world type of thinking, but feel this modern world should have developed ways to pull each being up to a overall better living standard which in turn would/should eliminate the class labeling.

Originally posted by Pilot
Yet you certainly experience the class differences in real life. It's just not a subject many people are willing to discuss freely in a reasonable manner.

Yes you do and htis is something I could not understand when viewing the debates of the Americanaz I just kept hearing middle class this and that but started to wonder what of the lower class who also depend on a good decision making pres are their needs and lifestyles as important as the rest?

Originally posted by Pilot
It's easy enough to imagine how shame is visited on the poor while still in childhood. When they get to school, they learn that the Dentist or Executives kid gets treated better by teachers, and they set the trends, etc. Those same privileged kids might grow up feeling a bit of shame and guilt for their privilege, and get jobs in the public sector, to help the poor.

Yes I can imagine there are hard days with peers but fortunately as a child many are so busy being children they cannot fully lock on to the point of well living and less then well living class issues. As you stated those who are aware may tend to go into STO or Services to Others type job positions to help out others which to me is like a sign or attribute we all have from the Creator of all to assist each other as creations as we all develop and that's a beautiful thing and those are beautiful beings for seeing the issues as children and then becoming adults to try and help out wherever possible to trim or eliminate the issue...

Originally posted by Pilot
Can't we move on? I'm so booooored!! There is always an alternative. It is useful to ask, "what" at this point. I don't think we can pre-plan a revolution. I think what makes a revolution authentic is an energetic groundswell that emerges spontaneously, and cannot be predicted. I think it would be amazing to be a part of a non-violent revolution in my lifetime, we just have to imagine what it might look like, not try to have all the pieces of the puzzle in place beforehand. All we have to do is imagine.

See Pilot I understand your energy as far as a revolution to adjust the issues but I too related that to old world practices. I say this because there always seemed to be some hidden agenda or influence trying to derail or manipulate weak links within so that type of practice may not work as it requires all to be on the same pages and may only get people in trouble if not killed so there has to be a better way.

I can see you carry lots of compassion for this herd and it shows in your writings nice to see and hopefully many more will some how gain a conscious vibe to begin to assist each other better & drop the egos lets advance as a species imagine a planet that has reached this level of awareness how they may be advancing instead of -class tied into -power which then feeds -race hate and then -oppression which = this herd is not advancing as it should be they need more time ect...

thanks again for you input to the thread Pilot see you in the boards..

reply to post by ldyserenity


I appreciate your replying to my post and sharing your opinion but I'm a bit confused on you saying I'm 'dead wrong' followed by the fact you don't like tuna noodles. I was speaking strictly about my own family and household only, in reference to something Ann Romney said in her RNC speech, where she mentioned tuna noodles. It was more like an example and tended toward the facetious side. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear or if you felt I was presuming to speak for other people because that wasn't my intention.

reply to post by queenannie38


oh I thought you were saying everyone loves it. LOL My bad.
I know it was off topic but just had to say not everyone likes it...but I took the post wrong.
I am willing to bet none of the elite has ever had to eat tuna casserole though.

Personally, lately I am leaning toward classifications (if we MUST have them, that is - even if only to begin to break away from such labeling) such as 'the worker class' and 'the idle rich.'

Politically incorrect, I know. Not applicable for me since I am not a politician and I would rather see labels not confine but define, as I said...if we MUST have them.

Those two distinctions make it about what a person DOES to contribute...what they can personally contribute and/or are willing AND able to contribute. There are unemployed poor and unemployed rich...and the same for the employed. And those that would be employed if it were possible, for whatever reason.

reply to post by ldyserenity


I figured you just misunderstood! No problem! lol

I agree with you, for sure...and that was my point about the comment. Ann Romney attempted in her speech to put herself and her hubby on 'that' level by saying that they ate a lot of tuna noodles when he was in Harvard...but also she said they supported themselves by selling stock he had inherited.

Back in 2000, before the economy started to tank because of the extreme cost of protracted wars being waged across the ocean...I could go to Wal-Mart with $10 and get enough to feed my bf and myself for 3 days or so...and we developed an affection for tuna noodles during that time! And I learned many ways to make it. Now we could not afford to eat just one day on $10 and thankfully no longer have to try...but we love tuna noodles still.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Most of what you describe is me.

bigfatfurrytexan im afraid this is how many are surviving those who aren't multi millionaires or higher. and this is one of my main points im making many may not even know what class they really are in. I dont know if its denial related or just plain ole ignoring reality that over the past 12 years the middle class had to be eliminated to pay for these many wars that have costed massive amounts that could of very well went into building this nation up. With better homeless programs, drug dependent programs and even young workforce programs to get youth who are willing on track with early work permits so they can have another way of making money instead of looking around and seeing a few friends prosper who may be into less legal activities.

Just think if all that money on wars alone had not left the Americanaz pockets?? where this nation would be if it just spent the money at home and maybe sent a powerful black ops force that could of been financed for say approx 2 billion to find OBL or UBL in secret and his associates responsible for the (911 attacks on the innocent of the herd of EA*RTH).

But yet massive money went out OBL or UBL was just supposed recently found and the Americanaz gained more hate and wasted lots of money on issues like Pakistan to support the US smh, where OBL or UBL was found JOKES mis money management yes?? and yet homeless still roam the streets of the US teens are not being educated as they need to be to flourish better in society, the prison business is growing and with more financial strains 1 can see it grow more smh and many are lost in thinking they are part of a class that seemed to be sold for the price of wars. And since many who may have power to make change are caught up in thinking the middle class is them or exist they wont even try to fix the issues effecting many who may be looked at as below them until sadly they also become trapped into the lower class and then realize how messed up thigs really are (somewhat a karmic energy)

So in actuality there is no middle class to me bigfatfurrytexan just rich and poor as with the rest of the herd of the globe and any who cannot see are in denial. Now I may be a little ruff around the edges in my descriptions because yes some may be making high 6 figures and are maintaining but many are not who may even be making high 6 figures when you factor they may have built their lifestyles based on their finances as they are to do so here but again future events may be upon related to presidential good decision making or not that may cause that last group of what can be considered higher middle class to fall into the lower class and it can be prevented if some just acknowledge the lower class for what it is those other then the higher class, at least until this countries finances get on track. Now I know Nasdaq and others like are where you can see certain numbers that those in higher levels of finances are interested in thee are also the numbers that reflect a countries markets but those market number good or not are reflections of the finances of the rich not the other then rich so as long as those numbers stay up the country is financially doing well the market part of the country (high class) but check those unemployment numbers ect assistance ssi or other numbers and you get a real feel of the second part of the countries interest (the lower) cannot see BP being interested in unemployment?

cont...

reply to post by queenannie38


I see. I dunno think tuna noodles actually costs more than rice and beans. I developed a love of chili and rice for me...I found it a great cheap food and comforting as well as potato soup mmmm.
Ok now I am really going off topic.

This is currently what I am surviving on and lots of ramen noodles. So I can relate but supplement the food hahaha.


I think no matter who is elected we are looking at a lot more becoming lower class. I am not ashamed to say I am in the lower class now, I would have never classified myself middle class everything I did have over necessities were either gifts from family or bought secon secondhand if you get my meaning. It doesn't make me feel disparaged by any means. What does is the fact that even that which I used to be able to keep going I cannot now. It's not for trying because you wouldn't believe how many times I fell to losing everything in my possession and got it all back working my tail off (without government help), but now If I do want to provide these things I am left with one choice selling my body,(and getting government help) yes I have been lowered to getting government help, sorry but I'd rather live in a box in squallor before I do sell my body and continue looking for honorable work even if I starve first. What I have learned is strategies the rich employ to achieve wealth and instead of trying to beat them, I am joining them. If nothing I learned what to do in certain ways to access money for myself and my family without hooking. If I ever get enough capital somehow, I'll be a force to reckon with. I guess this is why I never win the Powerball, because unlike mostly all the winners I know exactly how to grow that fortune instead of being broke again in a matter of years. Also I don't have a great debt to pay if I were to win...sadly I think for these reasons I'll never winn lottery lol.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
However, my question about who is "lower class" was mostly rhetorical, meant to catalyze thought.
When you ask, "why does no one talk about the lower class anymore? Do they not care?", the ansewr is simple: because of political speaking.

Yes and understood but those politicians are also speaking for part of the nation depending on them the most so they should be talking about them but I guess if they can do without and not upset any then skip is the plan smh.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Right now the majority of the nation would fall into the lower class. But no one wants to be called "lower class". So when the presidential debates, at the current moment, refer to "middle class relief", they are actually meaning "lower class relief". They are using the words that people self identify as.
When times are good, they refer to the "lower class" because the majority of people know they aren't hurting, and the bigger gain in votes comes from the feeling that the candidates give that they will help us be more charitable. It makes us feel pious when times are good to talk about helping those poor "lower class".

In a conscious effecting type of way I can see how this is used. And how it works the minds who are fine tuned into the debates word for word.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Let me ask you this: are you concerned with the lower class because you, yourself, are struggling to make ends meet? Or because you are concerned about your fellow human? I don't ask this in any sarcastic way, so please don't take it as such. But your answer may, if put in the framework of the above, answer your initial question from the OP.

Well to be honest its about my fellow man and somewhat about me & genetic family around me who may be effected by good or bad decision making from the P.O.T.U.S, so I care and don't want to see more people then already are in bad situations. I am a survivor had to eat that gov. cheese and butter as well as powdered milk some days along with them recreation center lunches at times, and basically have learned how to adapt to class and financial strain somewhat. Adapt from seeing my mom and dad try their best to take care of us mom in and out of different tech schools trying to find the right way and dad working odd roofing and carpenter type jobs when he was around and I see how much they really wanted to reach that dream but they could not no matter how hard it seemed they tried. I am not saying they didnt provide the best they could with what they had for I appreciate all their help and attention it just seemed so hard for them to get ahead no matter how many jobs. Seemed like they were destined to just make it to maintain level and no further. So a combination of others and 1 as well bigfatfurrytexan as far as my concerns. I just see many out here with massive amounts of hope for whoever wins the elections to make it better here and hope many see in order to get better the problems have to be seen and if many dont even see middle class went out the window when US entered M.E then how shall the issue to restore a middle class be presented if its not even acknowledged as being dissolved

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
BTW, for what its worth....i grew up poor oilfield trash. Life in the West Texas during the big bust years of the 80's was no cake walk. Matter of fact, I remember winning a cake at a cake walk, and how excited the whole family was to have it at home that night. I remember getting food from churches and food pantries. I remember having only 1 pair of Wrangler jeans for the school year (we couldn't afford the more fashionable Levi's). And wearing shoes bought from Safeway (nope...no social acceptance for me growing up). I remember the big Christmas my little sister had one year when she had her name selected from the Angel Tree by some very generous benefactor (who is still, to this day, anonymous to us). I have been there. I still work to be there. The poor...they are my people. Why do you think I do so well as a business manager? My people see me as "one of them", not "the man". Because I grew up with them.

I think most of us have a similar story, to be honest.

I think most do as well, many got to remember many came here trying to avoid the lifestyles they had oversees like my great grands did and they had to work hard to get by and to advance here so its like part of being from here comes with recognizing the struggle being experienced now by us or from our ascendants of the past and trying to overcome it so there should not be no ignoring of the lower class as much as there should be a goal to eliminate it and push those here ahead.
Thanks for bringing some serious content to the thread OP in time hope is the whole world gets better but there has to be a nation to lead by example.