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Is the lower class gone or being written off? I dont hear any discussing them @ all in the debates?

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posted on Oct, 5 2012 @ 02:22 PM
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I hear a lot of pandering to the middle class from Obama and Romney and some contempt toward us from Romney, but true solutions... not a bit.




posted on Oct, 5 2012 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by Kali74
I hear a lot of pandering to the middle class from Obama and Romney and some contempt toward us from Romney, but true solutions... not a bit.


The US is that the "lower" class and middle class are one now... and it will be evident sooner than later IMO. The only reason they are pandering is because they can wring us dry for money. Its a sick play being acted by these people.



posted on Oct, 5 2012 @ 03:38 PM
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[color=cyan]
I would like to thank all who came in and shared. The issue I see with society today is some wish not to recognize their positions in society so its easier to ignore what may be very important factors to many families. that factor is where did the lower class go and is the use of middle class really allowing those who really are lower class the feeling that they are not part of this class so issues with the lower class dont matter to them. Do not matter until God forbid they are forced to see yes they are lower class and had a chance to speak up on it but felt ashamed to do so for some reason. I also feel if many recognize ok im in a lower class they will present debate data to the 2 runners up. With that I hope if any get to read this who are in positions of power to actually do something about this from inside or outside will do so somehow. Take care ATS very interesting times



posted on Oct, 5 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
 


I have lived below or very close to the poverty line my entire adult life. When I made more money, I had more expenses, and worked much longer hours. I value time more than $$, so I do without it and have loads of free time to do whatever I want. (except of course take fabulous vacations and anything that cost more than a few hundred) To me this is the trade off and I'm happy with it. In all this time I have to say it makes very little difference to poor people who the president is, our lives are more impacted by local and state gov hierarchies. Cities have lots more resources for the poor, rural poor can be sucky.

I know people who scrounge for every last dollar, scrapping metal, delivering newspapers, whatever, and when it all comes crashing down, I am more concerned for the people who have something to lose, it will be much harder on them than on those who have been struggling all along. It doesn't matter if you call them ex-middle, lower middle, lower, poor, up-#es-creek-without-paddle class, they will be astonished and probably desperate.


"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -John Steinbeck
edit on 5-10-2012 by Pilot because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2012 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by Pilot
To me this is the trade off and I'm happy with it. In all this time I have to say it makes very little difference to poor people who the president is, our lives are more impacted by local and state gov hierarchies. Cities have lots more resources for the poor, rural poor can be sucky.

I dont know I feel what your saying but I am not rich and see many who are not rich and they do care who the pres. is from what I observe. These people if not taken serious would still fall even lower on the ladder due to the middle class needing many of the resources the lower class use now. Which means that either more money will be needed (TAXES) to sustain a larger lower class or that the middles will absorb the entire lower class existing budgets totally knocking the lower class into 3rd world like living. Keeping in mind now still living in same cities ect with the new struggling middle class. So I see if this issue is not taken serious potentials for serious revolt??? All because an entire class was accepted as eliminated (the current low class). Who do depend on the pres. just as much as everyone else. They have children who may enter colleges in future so they are concerned with whats going on with interet rates ect even if they themselves cannot rise out of the issue they want their children too I know my parents did.

Here is something I experienced being part of the lower class growing up that many others realized as well who were in similar situations. Its like this basically if your parents or the previous generation does not push the upcoming generation up in finances or class the burden falls on the next generation and if they dont by some magical way fix it it then goes to the next generation until it almost seems impossible to climb out of and then they give up and get talked about like why they act like that? And what does this do it either makes some have to work multiple jobs why trying to have a family or go into more illegal financial practices to fix the issue which can add more set back to the upcoming generation as they try to make up for their daddy or mommy being in prison for trying to make up for their grand and great grand parents class issues why at the same time feeding extremism globally outside the borders
. NOW LOOK AT THE ENTIRE CHAIN of activities I AM PRESENTING AND WHEN YOU GO SO FAR BACK A OPPRESSION POINT IS THERE which can make it and has made it hard for many today descendants from then to get on track if ever possible. This is why its very important to acknowledge these issues, that is if any really want to fix things or just allow the chain to continue and hey maybe next 2 generations a NEW group (pay attention) will grow from not making it yet into something that may destroy all the classes...


Originally posted by Pilot
I know people who scrounge for every last dollar, scrapping metal, delivering newspapers, whatever, and when it all comes crashing down, I am more concerned for the people who have something to lose, it will be much harder on them than on those who have been struggling all along.

I disagree none are comfortable being at the bottom and if they see the top fail then they know then nothing good is present for them at all, so why should they care to participate in legitimate lifestyles and not try and over throw the system (speaking in future terms perhaps). So again all will feel the effects, but I see what you were trying to say.

ITS A SAPIENS SAPIENS ISSUE OF NOT PULLING YOUR BRO/SIS UP WHEN THEY ARE DOWN AND JUST LEAVING THEM BEHIND UNTIL THEY KNOCK AT YOUR DOOR DEMANDING GOODS.

Thanks Pilot for your input very well thought out I can tell


NAMASTE*******
edit on 10/5/12 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2012 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
 


Obama tends to refer to the lowest income earners or most poverty stricken members of our citizenship with something along the lines of 'those who aspire to the middle class.' Aspire might not be the best word and it's my word, not his...but the idea being that those who are in the lowest socioeconomic class are oriented by a generally common goal of trying to get OUT of abject poverty and join the majority of us...aka the 'middle class' in what might be best defined as moderate, survivable, or tolerable poverty.

Romney does not seem to be aware that there are class distinctions at all under his own socioeconomic experience...if he does, then evidently he's been advised to progress in his understanding since it is IMPOSSIBLE to understand abject poverty if you've never even been moderately poor...or poor at all. Eating tuna noodles every night before thinking about which inherited stocks to trade to make it through to graduation from an Ivy league school (said education not being funded on student loans and scholarships, mind you) just doesn't seem like poverty to most of us. They evidently ate tuna noodles for the same reason we still do at my house...there are 101 ways to make a tasty casserole involving pasta and tuna and it's just plain yummy.



The latter reason being the same for our penchant for still loving to eat beans and cornbread and also spaghetti.



posted on Oct, 5 2012 @ 05:23 PM
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Do you believe what you hear from those idiots?

You don't discuss the "lower class" when you are trying to connect with people during rough times. People want to be spoken to during these debates, and people are hurting. We all know the unemployment numbers are a load of crap.

So when you get on TV and start talking to these hurting people, you speak directly to them. You call them :"middle class" (which was uttered more times than I could count by both Obama and Romney). Aferall, who takes kindly to being called "low class"?

Now, on the other hand, when the nation is doing well, people are not hurting, you want to connect with their empathy, not them directly. So you talk about plans for those poor "lower class" people. No one considers themselves "lower class". Especially when there is no real "middle class" anymore. So, in essence, it is empty promises to help no one, other than a new potential voting base.
edit on 5-10-2012 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2012 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
reply to post by Soloro
 


I understand what your saying now and that's good you know you have it under control. There are many though who may not even sense what may happen.

edit on 10/5/12 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)


Well, and you yourself know...and I also know..many of us know...that when it is a matter of survival how to make sure there is something to eat and a warm place to sleep that is safe...politics are about the furthest thing from your mind and even if they come to mind...there is no power...no time...no ability to actually even get involved much less voice an opinion that someone might hear...or rather, be interested in hearing.

It takes more and more existential energy to remain in existence...it is diversion and it works really well. It is not much of a choice to choose survival over giving up. It is basically capitalist slavery binding a wealth of potential in human free thought. And GOD forbid someone break free and speak out what they are thinking in their impossible-to-enslave mind! Because if they do, they are branded a socialist at best or silenced in ways I do not want to even contemplate or speak of.

1% of the US are millionaires. 46% of the Congressional membership are millionaires.
A sad case of the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few...but in reverse, somehow.
You dig what I'm saying.

And while I do not begrudge anyone the fruits of their own hard-won efforts, it is hard for me to believe that all those Congressional millionaires earned their fortunes with their own blood sweat and tears...because politics is a full time job and a lifetime one, at that. If you're in Congress all the time, then you don't have time to be working as hard as is necessary to become a self-made millionaire. What you do have time for, however, is manipulating and making laws that make it possible to become a millionaire without ever having to 'earn' it in an honorable fashion.



posted on Oct, 6 2012 @ 06:54 AM
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reply to post by queenannie38
 


The "needs of many outweighing the needs of the few"....that is called "mob rule" and SHOULD be 100% precluded by our Constitution. Being a Republic, there are SUPPOSED to be measures in place that prevent mob rule.

But to your point about congressmen and how they have earned all that wealth....spot on.



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


You make a good point, I always enjoy your posts, BFFT. I find myself agreeing with you most of the time. However, I have always believed rightly or not, that the systems in place need to be brought down for any real change to happen. I don't think it's possible to change the systems from within. That's why I stated that the presidency has so little effect on the lowest of the low.

Off-topic: as a medium sized, mostly hairless Okie, did you catch that OU/Tech game yesterday??

Boomer Sooner.

Pilot




posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by HawkeyeNation
Who cares they are low class scum and that's why out economy sucks
Ah Yes.
But isn't this the very thing that the Repub Platform is founded on?
That from Rags, one can rise to Riches without Gov Assistance.
Your use of "low class scum" denotes that the Repubs Beliefs are a Farce, making the Repub Party a Farce as well.



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo5
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
 


Short answer?...Rising cost of living with stagnant wages has merged the middle and lower class together into one amorphous...we need more money...class, thus forward referred to as the middle-class.


Most of the world population operates on very little money. In America is the one of the few places where you can be considered poor but make 50k per year. We are a society of materialism and this is our down fall.

Back when I was a poor 20 year old I paid 1/2 rent on an apartment 1/2 on a house phone and didn't have cable. Drove a older car and thought cinder block furniture was cool. Today our poor seem to need a computer, Smart phone, internet, Cable, nice car etc etc, and other stuff as what they perceive as minimum life standards. I saw a homeless guy talking on his IPhone saying "ya I'm still homeless" lol.

When you start to add up all this minimum life standards crap you can easily be poor on a 15 dollar an hour wage.



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 12:31 PM
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The lower class ain't got no computers. They don't count none in this cyber werld.

I'm kidding. I am not in the US and don't know what all is up there.

(though I don't deny there isn't something to consider there, about the modern world and communication....)
edit on 7-10-2012 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by Kali74
I hear a lot of pandering to the middle class from Obama and Romney and some contempt toward us from Romney, but true solutions... not a bit.


What do you consider a true solution that either candidate can explain in 90 seconds without drifting off into the weeds...hehe

One side sees big government as the answer to fix the problem, and the other side sees small business as the answer to fix the problem. It comes down which way do you believe will work.

Oh, for everyone...maybe just reading more on what each candidate will do than only listening to sound bites and saying they don't explain enough will get you a better picture of their platform.



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by Pilot
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


You make a good point, I always enjoy your posts, BFFT. I find myself agreeing with you most of the time. However, I have always believed rightly or not, that the systems in place need to be brought down for any real change to happen. I don't think it's possible to change the systems from within. That's why I stated that the presidency has so little effect on the lowest of the low.

Off-topic: as a medium sized, mostly hairless Okie, did you catch that OU/Tech game yesterday??

Boomer Sooner.

Pilot



My oldest son is a junior at Tech. He was attending the game. I am a life long, die hard Sooner fan (BOOOOOMER!!!!!). He tried to talk smack to me during the fist quarter of the game via his cell phone. I told him that he was awfully cocky so early in the annual butt kicking. Oh, it was sweet...all he could say is "yeah, our qb can't throw." I told him, "Oh, he throws the game pretty well!" It was so sweet to see the revenge!

RE: the topic, to bring down the entire system, at this point, might be nearly impossible. Technology, being the spiderweb that it is, has made the control of the system that much tighter. The concept of "too big to fail", as repulsive as it is, is true when applied to the worlds technology grid. And the two apparatus that have been used are money and war. They are all part of the same machine.



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
Are they not part of the country of this nation anymore? Just a important question I felt the need to ask because I don't hear any speaking of the lower class to much just middle and up. Or has the middle class really became the lower and many are hiding the denial with middle class label.

Something I felt some should think about. With that good luck to the who will assist the best those in need.

NAMASTE*******
LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA
edit on 10/5/12 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)



The lower class and impoverished classes are just a glorified political football. Used as a ends to a political means.



posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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My oldest son is a junior at Tech. He was attending the game. I am a life long, die hard Sooner fan (BOOOOOMER!!!!!). He tried to talk smack to me during the fist quarter of the game via his cell phone. I told him that he was awfully cocky so early in the annual butt kicking. Oh, it was sweet...all he could say is "yeah, our qb can't throw." I told him, "Oh, he throws the game pretty well!" It was so sweet to see the revenge!

LOVE it!! I was at an Oct Fest and everybody was screaming at the jumbotron...in a good way.

RE: the topic, to bring down the entire system, at this point, might be nearly impossible. Technology, being the spiderweb that it is, has made the control of the system that much tighter. The concept of "too big to fail", as repulsive as it is, is true when applied to the worlds technology grid. And the two apparatus that have been used are money and war. They are all part of the same machine.

I have to agree, but harbor some hope that kids your son's age will be more informed and hopefully more pro-active than those of us older kids. The system can be used against "them" and the younger generation will likely figure out how. Again, hope.



posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by Pilot

RE: the topic, to bring down the entire system, at this point, might be nearly impossible.


Pilot is this the correct forum you wanted to post within for this OP isn't to bring down the system
just trying to find out if the lower class matter or if the middle and lower class have been consciously manipulated to look at each as they are the same meaning lower thinks its middle and middle not knowing its actually lower only 2 classes seem to exist so with elections coming up I wondered why I don't hear about the lower class especially since they are people as well? I hope they are considered people since many of the powerful deities of the past seem to incarnate within the poor zones it seems (better empire observations I guess) ? Again not sure if you meant to post here or not Pilot?

edit on 10/8/12 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13

Originally posted by Pilot

RE: the topic, to bring down the entire system, at this point, might be nearly impossible.


Pilot is this the correct forum you wanted to post within for this OP isn't to bring down the system
just trying to find out if the lower class matter or if the middle and lower class have been consciously manipulated to look at each as they are the same meaning lower thinks its middle and middle not knowing its actually lower only 2 classes seem to exist so with elections coming up I wondered why I don't hear about the lower class especially since they are people as well? I hope they are considered people since many of the powerful deities of the past seem to incarnate within the poor zones it seems (better empire observations I guess) ? Again not sure if you meant to post here or not Pilot?

edit on 10/8/12 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)


Let me ask you (and this is the second time I have posed this question in this thread)....exactly who is it that would consider themselves "lower class"? No matter how poor someone is, they will generally look at themselves as "middle class", even if near homeless. What differentiates lower and middle class? Is it really income? Because I know people with only welfare income who enjoy a better standard of living than myself (an executive with a wife that is a nurse). While anyone on Earth would call me "middle class", i would retort with "there is no middle class any more". And I feel it, too.

So, how do you pit the "middle class" against the "lower class"? Does anyone really say that they are "lower class"? I would bet that most Americans see it as an insulting term (in this hypermaterialistic society that we have). And I doubt that many would self identify in such a manner, regardless of the reality of their circumstances.

When you hear the term "lower class" used in politics, it is used during times of financial prosperity to help push social programs through by making people feel like they are helping out those poor unfortunate saps. When the prosperity ends, the political debate is about the "middle class", because to talk about "lower class" would alienate 99% of the nation. No one identifies as lower class, they only thing of others in that way.
edit on 8-10-2012 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
 


I digress, not trying to be off topic, but when the systems are not constructed to favor certain individuals, and they ARE constructed to favor others, I look to the systems as the origin of "lower" classes existing in the first place.
A conceptual leap but I think still fairly on topic.

I don't know why politicians say half the crap they say, usually it's diversionary, so to the point, they aren't discussing the poor because pretty soon, the poorest of the poor are going to be on their own. The drought that hit the states this year has sent food prices way up, and I'll bet food stamps won't be increased to make up the difference. Whomever gets the presidency will not have the power to do anything about it because by then we will be caught up in another military operation somewhere in the world, and money will be ever tighter, even for the mythical middle class.

All this class talk is another divide and conquer bit. We are one species that certain members of which like to control and abuse the rest. There are issues both rich and poor can agree upon, but that won't happen, the divide is psychological concrete, and takes effort to break.

Rambling, but more on topic?



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