Fact-checking the Denver presidential debate

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posted on Oct, 4 2012 @ 01:05 PM
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Fact-checking the Denver presidential debate


President Barack Obama and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney traded barbs Wednesday night on taxes, jobs, health care and the economy — and often stretched the facts. "Mr. President," Romney said, "you're entitled as the president to your own airplane and to your own house, but not to your own facts." Romney also would have benefited from that advice. We're combing through the pair's remarks from the University of Denver's Ritchie Center, where moderator Jim Lehrer focused on the economy, health care, the role of government and governing.


All in all not too bad a night for the facts. Only one false statement and that went to Romney. With this one.


"Right now, the (Congressional Budget Office) says up to 20 million people will lose their insurance as Obamacare goes into effect next year." Mitt Romney, Wednesday, October 3rd, 2012.


And two mostly false which also went to Romney.


Says Barack Obama "put in place a board that can tell people ultimately what treatments they're going to receive." Mitt Romney, Wednesday, October 3rd, 2012.



Romney said six tax studies look at a study that Obama described and "say it's completely wrong." Previously, Romney has claimed that five studies back his tax plan. We found that Mostly False. We saw no more than two independent studies out of the five claimed.
edit on 4-10-2012 by buster2010 because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 4 2012 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by buster2010
 


I find it funny that people see the debates as a sporting event type game, and that when the debate is ended you can declare a "winner".

The fact is that Romney buried himself just a little deeper last night be revealing some of the uglier details of his plans that hurt the middle class, and by also lying his ass off on that stage.

Unlike a sporting event, the game of the "debate" goes on well after they step off that stage.



posted on Oct, 4 2012 @ 02:07 PM
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I honestly thought the Obama team would have been better prepared for this.

Newt Gingrich explained Romney's debate style back in January



"He would say thing after thing after thing that just plain wasn't true," Gingrich said of the former Massachusetts governor in reference to last Thursday debate's on CNN.

"I don't know how you debate a person with civility if they're prepared to say things that are just plain factually false. "

www.cnn.com...

You have to have a strategy to confront BS, Lies and light-speed flip-flopping. Somone willing to tell bald-faced lies without hesitation.
edit on 4-10-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 4 2012 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by buster2010
 


Have they gotten to this one yet?

"actually, this $2.8 billion goes largely to small companies, to drilling operators and so forth."

Romney claimed that the subsidies for Big Oil goes to small natural gas and coal companies. The truth is that $2.8 billion in subsidies go to the FIVE BIGGEST oil companies.

priceofoil.org...



posted on Oct, 4 2012 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by buster2010
 


Wasnt there a comment by Romney that alluded to most of the green companies that the $90 billion in aid went to have failed? The fact is that while one is rather high profile, less than half of those companies have failed.

I identify more with democrats than republicans, but I usually give it a couple of days so I can head out and check the actual facts about their number-slinging, on BOTH sides. They're just playing a game.



posted on Oct, 4 2012 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo5
I honestly thought the Obama team would have been better prepared for this.


I honestly thought so too. But I don't think they anticipated Romney clearing his etch-a-sketch again. At that point, there wasn't much to debate...unless Obama wanted to go all 3rd grader on Romney and pull out the "lair, liar, pants on fire" defense. It's unfortunate that Obama didn't fight back, but given that there is two weeks before the next debate, there will be plenty of time for fact checkers to bring out the truth of Romney's statements and plenty of time for him to avoid answering for them, thus reminding people exactly who he really is.

Come the next debate, I anticipate Obama taking him to the mat.



posted on Oct, 4 2012 @ 03:23 PM
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In Romney's case,It's tough to fact check the
greatest used car salesman of all time.
He promises everything, then you go sign the papers
and none of what he promised is there.



posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 12:33 AM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 

"Small oil and gas businesses"

Somehow I missed that in the debate.
Another oxymoron for my continually growing list!



"He would say thing after thing after thing that just plain wasn't true," Gingrich said of the former Massachusetts governor in reference to last Thursday debate's on CNN.

"I don't know how you debate a person with civility if they're prepared to say things that are just plain factually false. "



Originally posted by Indigo5
You have to have a strategy to confront BS, Lies and light-speed flip-flopping. Somone willing to tell bald-faced lies without hesitation.


Indeed. And so there are a few options that I can think of:

  • One is to fire back, as Jon Stewart suggested...with LIAR LIAR LIAR...
  • Another is the standard counter-attack with-*gasp*-facts...which Obama did somewhat, but with little or no aggressiveness or challenge...perhaps conserving what little energy he seemed to have by choosing not to try to compete with Romney's apparent goal of dominating and overrunning their mutual exchange during the debate...
  • Then there is always that old 'give him enough rope and he will hang himself' type strategy...which I think is the one best suited to Romney's style and recent campaign history...giving Romney the floor instead of trying to shut him up is the best weapon against his consistent inconsistency, imo.
    And also, thinking about how the press has treated this campaign, and even just Obama's presidency, it seemed to me that it might have been a stroke of genius to just let Romney lie and flip flop and say stupid stuff like he's going to fire Big Bird and then let the rabid press take it from there.


Because the fact that it is mainly the undecided and/or non-hard-core voters who are most influenced by the debates...(mostly it is a good time to 'get a feel' for each candidate and see how it matches up with what they've heard, etc.,)...means that for Obama to call Romney a liar after Romney constantly calling Obama the same bears the risk of having them BOTH sound like a couple of 5th graders unqualified to run a lemonade stand much less this country...and pretty much par for the course in recent modern political history and sadly what most people expect.

But if Obama conducts himself as an adult (even a tired adult) and remains polite and continues his past policy of not insulting or even too harshly personally criticizing his debate opponents...and just waits for the press and the internet to immediately begin their usual hash, spin, and rehash the spin, INCLUDING many pointing out how they can't believe Obama just stood there and LET ROMNEY BLATANTLY LIE....that is going to mean a lot more to those who have been unsure which one, or both, do the most lying and what about.

If all that makes sense. It is kind of hard to describe what I'm seeing in all this, but maybe you can dig it.

Sometimes the best idea is to just sit back and let a liar lie his way all the way 'past the post.'



posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 06:01 AM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


Round 2 will likely be better. While Obama did fumble the ball a little, a lot of that was probably on purpose. Romney is now cemented into having several positions that he can't disavow or run from. When he tries to it'll open him up to attack.



posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 07:32 AM
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Originally posted by flyswatter
reply to post by buster2010
 


Wasnt there a comment by Romney that alluded to most of the green companies that the $90 billion in aid went to have failed? The fact is that while one is rather high profile, less than half of those companies have failed.

I identify more with democrats than republicans, but I usually give it a couple of days so I can head out and check the actual facts about their number-slinging, on BOTH sides. They're just playing a game.


So a waste of 45 billion is that much better how?



posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 07:45 AM
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Excuse me...I'll just set this down right here...



and this too...



www.gallup.com...


Thank you, carry on...
edit on 8-10-2012 by Thunderheart because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 02:04 PM
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Here's some fact checking for y'all to enjoy. I present to you: Mitt Romney debating Mitt Romney.


edit on 8-10-2012 by LeatherNLace because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by buster2010
Fact-checking the Denver presidential debate


President Barack Obama and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney traded barbs Wednesday night on taxes, jobs, health care and the economy — and often stretched the facts. "Mr. President," Romney said, "you're entitled as the president to your own airplane and to your own house, but not to your own facts." Romney also would have benefited from that advice. We're combing through the pair's remarks from the University of Denver's Ritchie Center, where moderator Jim Lehrer focused on the economy, health care, the role of government and governing.


All in all not too bad a night for the facts. Only one false statement and that went to Romney. With this one.


"Right now, the (Congressional Budget Office) says up to 20 million people will lose their insurance as Obamacare goes into effect next year." Mitt Romney, Wednesday, October 3rd, 2012.


And two mostly false which also went to Romney.


Says Barack Obama "put in place a board that can tell people ultimately what treatments they're going to receive." Mitt Romney, Wednesday, October 3rd, 2012.



Romney said six tax studies look at a study that Obama described and "say it's completely wrong." Previously, Romney has claimed that five studies back his tax plan. We found that Mostly False. We saw no more than two independent studies out of the five claimed.
edit on 4-10-2012 by buster2010 because: (no reason given)


How nice of you to leave out the parts against Obama! This is your source.

• Romney said that Obama failed to cut health care premiums by $2,500. That's true. On our Obameter, which tracks Obama's 2008 campaign promises, we've rated that a Promise Broken.

You said The only False went to Romney. Maybe you just don't read bad news for Obama?

• Obama said health premiums grew slower in the last two years than any time in the past five decades, and he suggested that his health care law was the reason. The statement misconstrued real trends documented by a government report and Kaiser Family Foundation survey. To be correct, Obama should have referred to total health spending and attributed credit to the recession. We rated the claim False.


Obama said 50 million people will lose coverage if the health care law is repealed. He didn’t say so, but that figure is based on projections for a decade down the road, and it applies to people who don't have insurance now. Also, it includes projections of people who would lose coverage if Medicaid is converted to a block program. That's separate from the health care law. We rated Obama's statement Mostly False.


In discussing Romney's tax proposals, Obama said that "under Gov. Romney's definition ... Donald Trump is a small business"? However, Romney's tax plan would not give Trump -- or anyone else -- a tax cut based on their status as a small business. We rated the claim False.


Could you be any more partisan? The biggest liar was clearly Obama. Romney distorted facts a lot, Obama flat out lied about quite a bit.



posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 03:43 AM
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Originally posted by sealing
In Romney's case,It's tough to fact check the
greatest used car salesman of all time.
He promises everything, then you go sign the papers
and none of what he promised is there.


You mean like Obama, the king of broken promises. How much of what he promised in 2008 did he actually do?





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