Anybody Just Disagree With God?

I have had this conversion with many different people over the years and it goes something like this.

"Even if the bible is 100% accurate in truth, and the God of said bible is the only true and divine being in the Universe, I just disagree with his way of doing things, and don't want to a obey a God like that"

This line of reasoning has even gone to the point where people have told me they would rather burn in hell forever than serve and obey God. For the record I don't believe in hell, so then they say well then not exist forever instead.

Honestly I find this ultra defiant attitude puzzling, we are all in subjection in one way or another it's all relative.
Most humans today are subject to the laws of the land they live in, do they say they would rather be dead than obey those basic laws, very few do.

I find it strange that people would defy the sovereignty of the owner the universe, but not the sovereignty of their own country.

My thoughts are that people don't understand no matter what we all have varying degrees of subjection could be social or economic, maybe even just cultural, but it always exists.

Maybe this is a perception issue?

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Most logical people reject the idea that the bible is 100% truth... those same people usually find the idea that God wrote or even inspired the bible completely ridiculous as well...

So i would definatly say its a "perception issue" as you stated...

Some believe disagreeing with the bible is defying God, while others see the bible as a book, not Gods word, so they're not defying or disagreeing with anything other then a story book

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


You know, my dog may disagree with the way I do things, but it doesn't mean he is right or even smart enough to know what I'm doing or why I'm doing it. How much more of a distance in understanding there must be between us and God!

Its utterly ridiculous to think that "I" know better than God on anything. The very One that created existence! If I disagree on anything, it only shows my stupidity.

I find I'm unqualified to claim superior intelligence over an omnipotent being... Yes even a possibly imaginary one.

I'm lost. What about disagreeing with a supreme being is "ultra-defiant"?

If God allows your father's killer to live, while allowing your father to die, is it wrong to be mad at how he/she/it does things?

Some people attribute the problems in society to God (when they really mean Fate, which is just something their God decides), so is it wrong to disagree with what God is allowing to happen in is this world?

Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over,

It's all good tho...

Peace

Mind you the bible has been re written many times over. Who's to say that what was added or put in in the first place is the truth? I am Catholic but still find myself thinking sometimes... What are God's words?

He's never personally told me...

And I find myself feeling guilty at times for thinking this way, almost like I'm defying him.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Blue_Jay33

 

so they're not defying or disagreeing with anything other then a story book

Friend of mine worked in a book shop, when people came in and asked him where the bibles were he'd say "Over there with the rest of the fiction"

So this being creates a heaven and a hell, one for bad people, one for good people.

He then decides that being good isnt quite enough to deserve heaven so he starts throwing obstacles in the path of those who are good. Living a good life, being a good person isnt enough, you have to prove you are a loyal and unquestioning servant also.

It seems to me that this being does not want the betterment of his people, he wants slaves.

I refuse to be a slave, and i refuse to believe any "God" who is good would want us to be slaves to anyone, God or man. So that leaves two possibilities, either there is no "God", only words written by man to control the masses, or "God" is an evil ruler training slaves.

I side with religion being man made because it is the most logical answer.

Let me clarify

This is not a thread to discuss the validity of the bible, rather a thread to discuss the validity of God's sovereignty over this planet and us. Just pretend the bible is 100% truth....let's pretend you got what Saul(Apostle Paul) got, that is Jesus giving you a personal visit telling you to shape up, so that no matter what you thought in the past, you are virtually forced to except this truth.

Do you except God's sovereignty at that point or reject it? This is the issue.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Let me clarify

This is not a thread to discuss the validity of the bible, rather a thread to discuss the validity of God's sovereignty over this planet and us. Just pretend the bible is 100% truth....let's pretend you got what Saul(Apostle Paul) got, that is Jesus giving you a personal visit telling you to shape up, so that no matter what you thought in the past, you are virtually forced to except this truth.

Do you except God's sovereignty at that point or reject it? This is the issue.

edit on 1-10-2012 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)

I would exept it no questions asked

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Let me clarify

This is not a thread to discuss the validity of the bible, rather a thread to discuss the validity of God's sovereignty over this planet and us. Just pretend the bible is 100% truth....let's pretend you got what Saul(Apostle Paul) got, that is Jesus giving you a personal visit telling you to shape up, so that no matter what you thought in the past, you are virtually forced to except this truth.

Do you except God's sovereignty at that point or reject it? This is the issue.

edit on 1-10-2012 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)

Well you are making it sound like an odd question. God's sovereignty is just sovereignty. Without God you would still have sovereignty. With God you have sovereignty. So what is the difference in accepting or rejecting is

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


sadly enough... IF Jesus or someone claiming to be Jesus told me the bible as it stands is 100% truth...

i would have to call said person a liar...

And if it was the actual Jesus... I would be switching teams immediately

reply to post by mr10k

So what is the difference in accepting or rejecting is

By accepting his sovereignty we are willing to do things his way, we accept that he has reasons for everything he does, even if we don't fully understand why and perhaps are even puzzled.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by mr10k

 

So what is the difference in accepting or rejecting is

By accepting his sovereignty we are willing to do things his way, we accept that he has reasons for everything he does, even if we don't fully understand why and perhaps are even puzzled.

I say, I'll accept.

Even if he is the supreme creator of all of this, he may still very well be flawed, and we may well be following the plan of a psychopath. But I would much rather follow the path of a crazy man than not following anyone's plan.

god seems to be too schizophrenic, love they neighbor but stone the adulteress to death at the gates of the city, thou shalt not kill but go kill all the people in that town including the pregnant women then cut them open and kill the fetuses, the bible is full of such contradictions.

In the OT god tells us to do things then in the NT he changes his mind and tells us not to do those things, which seems to indicate that god has to be a woman!

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


On the other end of this line of reasoning, the average person does not take the time to reflect on what is actually happening to them here in an artificial image. First, we are given a spirit that did not first belong to us. Our Soul is like a child that we raise. The Spirit of God allows our consciousness to accomplish this, but nothing about the relationship we have with God should say that He owes us the privilege. It's entirely given to us freely as a gift.

Think on this. Do we make our hair grow; the Earth turn; our eyes see; our stomach digest or any of it for that matter? No. We think and are allowed mobility. That's it. From there, the design of our body allows gifts of skill, but not apart from thought and movement. What generates the bio-mechanical suit we wear and the trillions of functions that allow an environment for thought and movement are completely and utterly done for us. We can only take credit for thinking and moving.

God created us in an image of Time, Space, Matter and Energy.

Genesis 1:1

In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

If we look in a mirror, we see our image. We are aware that the image is not literally us, but only a representation. God created us INSIDE an image. This should clue us in on the fact that the image is not us. God created us in the image of Himself. Knowing that we are children of God, read this verse and tell me what you see.

The Parable of the Wandering Sheep

10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

If you are not the image here, what are you? "Their" angels face God in heaven.

Hebrews 9

23 It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence.

All of this is a copy of heavenly things. It's an image. We are given this as a gift so that this verse set can be realized.

Acts 17

24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’[c]

29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

32 When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, “We want to hear you again on this subject.”

They did hear him again on the subject. Here is what he said:

Acts 24

15 and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16 So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.

God will raise every soul. That is today. 7 billion are here to see this happen.

Hebrews 9

28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Not only are the people you refer to spitting on the gift of life, they are also spitting on the one who offers a gift of eternal life in the first creation of paradise in Genesis 1. Genesis 2 is the material world for raising children of God. It will pass away. Paradise will not. Again, God only gives. "You must be born again." Baptism is the symbolism for immersion into the water of the river of life. We were baptized so we could be raised again to new life, incorruptible and holy. Not possible apart from being a prodigal son in the wilderness.

1 Corinthians 13

12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

There is a point to the suffering. Love must come from suffering. We can't know one apart from the other.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Let me clarify

This is not a thread to discuss the validity of the bible, rather a thread to discuss the validity of God's sovereignty over this planet and us. Just pretend the bible is 100% truth....let's pretend you got what Saul(Apostle Paul) got, that is Jesus giving you a personal visit telling you to shape up, so that no matter what you thought in the past, you are virtually forced to except this truth.

Do you except God's sovereignty at that point or reject it? This is the issue.

edit on 1-10-2012 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)

So your definition of god is that guy from the Old Testament of the Bible. And when you ask us if we would accept god's sovereignty over us and the planet, you're talking about this Old testament guy. But then you add to your question by inserting New Testament testimony from some other guy who said some other god, named Jesus, spoke to him, and you're asking us to just take this as truth and decide if we would hand over our free will to this god you and your religion have dreamed up.

The answer to your question is a flat out "NO!"

According to Genesis, defying God and thinking we know better was a problem from the off.

Personally I think it was a set up - I mean why put this tree there and tell Adam (who must have been sore after major surgery) and Eve NOT to eat from it, but also give then curiosity, then expect nothing to happen? Does a loving father set his children up this way, and then punish them for being children?

And why does God want, demand even, to be worshipped. Sounds like a particularly nasty human trait to me

It would appear a person can do good things all their life but not get into Heaven unless they believe. However a murdering rapist can repent at the last minute and be accepted. That doesn't seem very fair to me!

My last question for now - why does everything have to eat something else?

Would I choose to defy God - probably not if he was prepared to have a chat about these things, not something I am anticipating though.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

This line of reasoning has even gone to the point where people have told me they would rather burn in hell forever than serve and obey God. For the record I don't believe in hell, so then they say well then not exist forever instead

Hell doesn't exist, not like what most people and even many christians think and you certainly do not burn forever there. People often forget that, the first christians were jews and several years later the gentiles (grecians). In order to convey the message of what punishment is like after this world, the jews had to bridge the gap and give the greek gentiles a commonality which was hades that later translates as hell. There is no "hell", not like what we imagine, Hell was taken from the hebrew sheol which is the abode of the dead or in laymens terms...the grave or death. The Pit is the grave, or death if you will. Now at the end of time when the final judgement occurs evil people will be thrown into Gehenna which is a trash dump where in ancient times men would take torches and pitch and walk around Gehenna and light a ring of fire that resenbled a "lake" of fire. You don't burn forever in sheol (hell), you burn in Gehenna.