Calling all Masons.

reply to post by mideast


i would just like to correct you on one thing ,they have built churches for catholics not Christians there is a difference

reply to post by AnonymousCitizen

Mideast's assertions are not correct.

reply to post by mideast

It has been years (around 7-8 years), but I have read this book.

+ I don't decide for you.

You clearly did when you said:

Because those who join are not Muslims.

But , if you think there is any place for Jesus in freemasonry , I should tell you there is no place.

There is just moses and david and solomon. No jesus.

Anyway , they have built church for christians , but that doesn't mean they have accepted Jesus as a guide or teacher.

You clearly made a judgment that those who join Freemasonry lose their faith or don't have a faith.

reply to post by MarcellusWallace

It's okay, no worries.

One of my friends wants to join when he gets more money and I will swear him in on a Koran. I have no problem with the religious views of others, except when they try to shove it down my throat. One of my great mentors in the Fraternity was Jewish and he set an example of what a Worshipful Master is supposed to do in his year.

reply to post by mideast

I'm sure it was a riveting documentary that was completely unbiased and provided accurate information

The Grand Lodge in London is a beautiful building.

In fact they don't talk about Solomon possessing daemons , they call him the king and they wan this temple to be rebuilt in Jerusalem.

The legend that the Masons go by is that the Temple was built by the hands of skilled men. Was he not a king? Where do you get that we are trying to rebuild this temple in modern times?

You can see many common symbols of iluuminati , freemasonry and Zionism shown in this documentary.

reply to post by KawRider9

But you're our ass...wait...lol

We still love ya Brother.

Originally posted by KawRider9
Thank you for the replies guys. You have changed my mind on the Koran/Holy Bible deal!

I guess I'm an intolerant a$$ that needs to "learn to subdue my passions"

Judge not a man by what book he reads but by how he acts

Originally posted by BrianG
Judge not a man by what book he reads but by how he acts

Spoken like a true Mason. You will enjoy our order...

reply to post by Saurus


sorry off topic, i have been looking into joining the mason's my only issue is the religious side, i do believe in a higher power but i don't actively attend any church or specific following, Would the fact that im not actively religious cause a issue? or is just believing enough?

On topic, From my understanding you can be what ever religion you want as long as you believe, and i would think that if a Muslim wanted to join that it would not make sense for him to swear a oath on a book that he does not believe in.

I can't speak on the other stuff as i am not a mason, i have done some digging around tho because i do wish to join. My wife's grandfather was a Shriner and they did a lot for her as a child with a illness. I admire that and would like to hopefully be part of it one day

Originally posted by MadQuacker
reply to post by Saurus

 

sorry off topic, i have been looking into joining the mason's my only issue is the religious side, i do believe in a higher power but i don't actively attend any church or specific following, Would the fact that im not actively religious cause a issue? or is just believing enough?

On topic, From my understanding you can be what ever religion you want as long as you believe, and i would think that if a Muslim wanted to join that it would not make sense for him to swear a oath on a book that he does not believe in.

I can't speak on the other stuff as i am not a mason, i have done some digging around tho because i do wish to join. My wife's grandfather was a Shriner and they did a lot for her as a child with a illness. I admire that and would like to hopefully be part of it one day

I too do not actively "belong" to any specific religion and as far as I can tell that should be no problem

One of the "wings" of the Childrens Hospital my daughter goes to has a Shriners plaque on the wall

Originally posted by MadQuacker

sorry off topic, i have been looking into joining the mason's my only issue is the religious side, i do believe in a higher power but i don't actively attend any church or specific following, Would the fact that im not actively religious cause a issue? or is just believing enough?

The exact (and only) question you are asked in this regard is:
"Do you believe in a Supreme Being?"

If you answer "Yes" to this question, then you qualify. If you answer "No", you do not qualify. A "Yes" or "No" answer is required. How you interpret the question is, however, up to you. We will not ask you for details or to explain.

On topic, From my understanding you can be what ever religion you want as long as you believe, and i would think that if a Muslim wanted to join that it would not make sense for him to swear a oath on a book that he does not believe in.

You are 100% correct.

I can't speak on the other stuff as i am not a mason, i have done some digging around tho because i do wish to join. My wife's grandfather was a Shriner and they did a lot for her as a child with a illness. I admire that and would like to hopefully be part of it one day

All you need to do is ask...

Originally posted by KawRider9
1... To hire an outside, non-masonic company to do our investigations and back ground checks on potential candidates... I don't understand this at all and it seems highly moronic. Actually, it pisses me off that it's even being considered. Your thoughts?

My lodge allows for background checks, but I believe Grand Law lodge says it has to come through a third party check. (In other words, brothers who are in law enforcement are prohibited from mixing their business with their Masonic affiliation, which I agree with.)

2... To allow Muslims wanting to join, the choice of using the Koran instead of the Holy Bible.....I don't want to sound like a Muslim hating racist, so I'll just say, I DON'T LIKE THIS! I can't go into what's said in our degree work here, but the Holy Bible is a big part of it. Your thoughts?

I have been at the raising of 3 or 4 Master Masons on the Qur’an. One of the brothers even tracked down a brother in the Middle East to confirm appropriate passages for it to be open to for each degree. I see nothing wrong with this. The volume of sacred law is there during the conducting of degrees for the candidate, not for any other brother in the room. The Bible is open on the altar as well, but the book of the candidate's faith is what is important.

In fact, our Grand Lodge Law explicitly states:

Art. 397. (434). Religious Belief. A firm belief in the existence of God, the immortality of the soul, and the divine authenticity of the Holy Scriptures is indispensably necessary before a candidate can be initiated, but this Grand Lodge does not presume to prescribe any canonical books or what part thereof are inspired. It is the policy of this Grand Lodge to permit a candidate whose religious persuasion is based upon other than the Holy Bible to be obligated upon the book of his chosen faith, and same may be situated upon the Altar in front of the Holy Bible during the conferral of the three degrees of Masonry. In which event, all esoteric references to “The Holy Bible” during the conferral of the degree(s) and the lessons appropriate thereto shall be substituted with “The Book of your (my) Faith.”

During a degree, the Bible gives light to the Worshipful Master, but the book of the candidate's faith is what gives him guidance, and that should be respected.

Originally posted by AnonymousCitizen
Wow. Is that a widespread belief in Masonry? I've always thought it was, but have never seen it so boldly stated.

Mideast is not a Mason and has no idea what he's talking about.

Originally posted by Saurus

Originally posted by mideast

IMO , they can use any other book.

The book must be Sacred to the Mason in question.

For those that don't follow a particular faith, perhaps I should elaborate a little further on the requirements of the Books which qualify to be used in Freemasonry...

The ritual describes the Volume of Sacred Law as that which "Governs our Faith" and then "That great light in Masonry which will guide you to all truth, direct your steps in the paths of happiness and point out to you the whole duty of man."

Any book which fullfills these requirements may be used by the Candidate.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
The volume of sacred law is there during the conducting of degrees for the candidate, not for any other brother in the room. The Bible is open on the altar as well, but the book of the candidate's faith is what is important.

Josh, I have never heard it put in a better way. I wish I could hit the star button several times for this post.

reply to post by KawRider9


Brother,

Personally, I feel personal interest should be removed from the investigations as many many lodges are full of self interest, personal agendas and bias. This may help cutail that; change is often good more so than bad.

Regarding your Qu'ran issue...You are sorely misstepping your obligation as a Mason and are seriously derilict in recalling your lessons. You are virally inept in your historical studies and should be considering a voluntary demit.

Athiests and Agnostics are not allowed. All religions believe in a single supreme being. Our variances in language prevent us from all refering to the GATOU as God so you have Allah and Yaweh and others. Would you cast out a Prince Hall Masonic Brother?

Rethink your position Hiram

reply to post by KawRider9


The Book that is present when a brother swears his obligation should be the book of that brothers faith. The fact that the bible is where our rituals mostly come from is irrelevant. Once that brother learns his work, he will learn the same work we all did. So in my humble opinion, the book thing is a non issue. The background checks should be complete. I disagree with pissing on someone because of their credit as all have seen some form of hard times lately, but any criminal activity needs to be brought to light. So whomever can accomplish that for the least $ wins in my book.

Good luck and let us know what happens.

Originally posted by bkfd54
reply to post by KawRider9

 

Brother,

Personally, I feel personal interest should be removed from the investigations as many many lodges are full of self interest, personal agendas and bias. This may help cutail that; change is often good more so than bad.

Noted and I agree with you.....

Regarding your Qu'ran issue...You are sorely misstepping your obligation as a Mason and are seriously derilict in recalling your lessons. You are virally inept in your historical studies and should be considering a voluntary demit.

That seems a bit harsh.....

Athiests and Agnostics are not allowed. All religions believe in a single supreme being. Our variances in language prevent us from all refering to the GATOU as God so you have Allah and Yaweh and others. Would you cast out a Prince Hall Masonic Brother?

No, I would not cast out a Prince Hall Brother.....

Rethink your position Hiram

I did Brother. I said so at the bottom of page one! I also said, "I guess I'm an intolerant ass that need to learn to subdue my passions".

Thank you for giving your thoughts.

That didn't turn out how I wanted! How the heck do I split the above quotes, to make my posts separate?

Originally posted by KawRider9
That didn't turn out how I wanted! How the heck do I split the above quotes, to make my posts separate?

Add [/quote] when you're closing the quote above, and [quote] to reopen it where appropriate.

Hi,

I'm no mason, but i'd like to stick my oar in if thats ok.

Originally posted by KawRider9
I would like you thoughts on a couple of issues. Both of these items will be voted on in the Grand lodge(Illinois) this year and they both have me fuming .

1... To hire an outside, non-masonic company to do our investigations and back ground checks on potential candidates... I don't understand this at all and it seems highly moronic. Actually, it pisses me off that it's even being considered. Your thoughts?

Whats the deal with doing 'investigations and back ground checks', what is that for?

As for 'hiring outside', maybe your Lodge Master has an interest in an 'investigation' company and he is just trying to cream off a bit extra cash. You never know.

2... To allow Muslims wanting to join, the choice of using the Koran instead of the Holy Bible.....I don't want to sound like a Muslim hating racist, so I'll just say, I DON'T LIKE THIS! I can't go into what's said in our degree work here, but the Holy Bible is a big part of it. Your thoughts?

Maybe some of you Brothers can shed some light on these matters for me. They both piss me off and I voiced my concerns at lodge last night.

I was under the impression that being a mason was all about being the best human being you can be. Reading this second comment makes me question whether you will achieve that goal. If you cannot accept a Brother no matter what their personal religion, then maybe you are not suited to the masonic life after all.

Just saying. I can understand where you are coming from with 1. But reading 2. makes me understand how non-masons look on masonry with suspicion.

Good luck rubber duck!

OH

I read somewhere, probably in a thread on ATS that you have to read all the major religions to get the full picture. I don't know if that's true or not.

reply to post by OratoryHeist


The deal with investigations and back ground checks is simple. The back ground check is to see if you are a felon or have a criminal history... The investigations are a means of us getting to know a little about you, explaining what the brotherhood is about and answering any and all questions you might have....

As for your comment about Masons being the best person they can be,......... You are correct, that is what we expect and strive for. Always trying to be better... And your personal religion IS ignored, as long as you believe in a supreme being, you are accepted.

I failed at my tolerance and was shown the errors of my ways.... The reason for this thread, was to have my fellow Brothers help me understand/accept these issues and they did just that!

I'm still not sure about a non-masonic organization doing our investigations.. The negatives out weigh the positives in my opinion..

reply to post by KawRider9


I am a third degree master mason myself and from my early beginnings I have been against making any changes to our rituals. There is a reason why we do what we do when we do it and how we do it. If we start making unecessary changes to accomodate the few, we will become weak in heritage and tradition.