Calling all Masons.

I would like you thoughts on a couple of issues. Both of these items will be voted on in the Grand lodge(Illinois) this year and they both have me fuming .

1... To hire an outside, non-masonic company to do our investigations and back ground checks on potential candidates... I don't understand this at all and it seems highly moronic. Actually, it pisses me off that it's even being considered. Your thoughts?

2... To allow Muslims wanting to join, the choice of using the Koran instead of the Holy Bible.....I don't want to sound like a Muslim hating racist, so I'll just say, I DON'T LIKE THIS! I can't go into what's said in our degree work here, but the Holy Bible is a big part of it. Your thoughts?

Maybe some of you Brothers can shed some light on these matters for me. They both piss me off and I voiced my concerns at lodge last night.

While not a mason myself I have taken a very keen interest

I would think it would be best to have "your own" do any background checks that are within your powers - just like owners of a business who have a vested interest they tend to do a better job than somebody just getting "paid".

Allowing any "holy book" to be used is that not what the core of Freemasonry is? Any God is fair game to worship I thought?

reply to post by KawRider9

#1. Our Grand Lodge pays a fee once a year and all Lodges can get their background checks done by the police for free. It seems like a waste of money to pay an outside company to do it.

#2. In our Lodge, we ask what book each Candidate would like us to use and for just the conferral, we use their book as they are swearing upon it. I don't see any issue with it as our very values say ones faith is their own and how can we have them swear an Obligation to their god if they are not allowed to give it on their Holy Book?

reply to post by KawRider9


IMO , they can use any other book.

Because those who join are not Muslims.

But , if you think there is any place for Jesus in freemasonry , I should tell you there is no place.

There is just moses and david and solomon. No jesus.

Anyway , they have built church for christians , but that doesn't mean they have accepted Jesus as a guide or teacher.

Al-Masonyia, There has been muslims in freemasonry for centuries. If you do not want Muslims around you leave the brotherhood. Very simple.

Originally posted by mideast
There is just moses and david and solomon. No jesus.

Anyway , they have built church for christians , but that doesn't mean they have accepted Jesus as a guide or teacher.

What use do they have for Moses, David, and Solomon? Solomon is, of course, reputed to have had the power to command demons for building purposes as relates to the Temple.

reply to post by mideast

By joining the Freemasons we are not denying the doctrine of our individual faith. I'm still a Christian. A Muslim will still be a Muslim. I'm tired of other people thinking they can decide my faith for me. It's not for you to say what our faith is or is not. My relationship with God is private, personal, and between two of us -- not you.

The legend of Freemasonry is during the building of King Solomon's Temple and we focus not on anything really that ecclesiastical, but on the legend of the building. No religious preference is pushed in order to keep harmony among the Brethren of various beliefs. In the York Rite the Knights Templar Order is extremely Christian.

You're also confusing operative Masonry with speculative Masonry, but again you presume to speak for others and matters that you have no business speaking in.

reply to post by The GUT

The story of the use of demons is just one story of the building of this famous edifice.

#1: This is analogous to someone wanting to adopt a child, and letting someone else choose the child. How on earth can someone who does not understand Freemasonry decide who are suitable candidates? This is just bizarre.

#2: Here I share the opposite viewpoint to you. While some Masonic constitutions are Christian in nature, globally members of any religion may join and use the Sacred Book of choice (VSL). For long it has bothered me that some Christian side orders (particularly in the English constitution) which practice religious tolerance do not allow non-Christians. Freemasonry also teaches that no Sacred Book is more important than the Sacred book of another religion. I have a problem with Christian-only constitutions, or constitutions which only use the Bible, as in my opinion, this goes against everything that Freemasonry teaches.

Originally posted by mideast
reply to post by KawRider9

 

But , if you think there is any place for Jesus in freemasonry , I should tell you there is no place.

Wow. Is that a widespread belief in Masonry? I've always thought it was, but have never seen it so boldly stated.

reply to post by KSigMason


You should read Qur'an to learn this.

And I won't tell you where.

+ I don't decide for you.

You do all you want and see what you will get.

peace.

Originally posted by mideast
IMO , they can use any other book.

The book must be Sacred to the Mason in question.

Because those who join are not Muslims.

This is not true. I have many Muslims in my Lodge. In one Lodge which I visit frequently, a Muslim is currently the Worshipful Master.

If Freemasonry deliberatley excluded Muslims or the use of the Qur'an, I would resign in the blink of an eye.

But , if you think there is any place for Jesus in freemasonry , I should tell you there is no place.

Jesus is not specifically mentioned in Freemasonic rituals, except in certain side orders. I agree that Jesus should not be a part of the ritual, but if a Mason worships Jesus, he should be encouraged to do so. Every Freemason is encouraged to be a true follower of his own religion.

There is just moses and david and solomon. No jesus.

David's brother, Jonathan also features in many of the side orders.

"My relationship with God is private, personal, and between two of us -- not you. "

Why do you care about others religion then? Why be mad because Muslims will be able to join your Lodge?
Practice what you preach.

Nvm , just realized you we were not the OP.

Originally posted by AnonymousCitizen
Wow. Is that a widespread belief in Masonry? I've always thought it was, but have never seen it so boldly stated.

You misunderstand mideast.

Freemasonry welcomes men of all religions, and Freemasonry teaches that each person should follow his own religion devoutly. It would be anti-masonic to teach that Jesus is more important than the other Prophets.

Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by mideast
There is just moses and david and solomon. No jesus.

Anyway , they have built church for christians , but that doesn't mean they have accepted Jesus as a guide or teacher.

What use do they have for Moses, David, and Solomon? Solomon is, of course, reputed to have had the power to command demons for building purposes as relates to the Temple.

hey Puaro

Solomon was son of david they were both prophets , peace be upon them.

I have seen this documentary called :

Inside.The.Freemasons.The.Grand.Lodge.Uncovered.2010

I didn't get much , but you can see the pictures inside the grand lodge of london and you can do your own observation.

In fact they don't talk about Solomon possessing daemons , they call him the king and they wan this temple to be rebuilt in Jerusalem.

IMO , they are after his unique power.

You can see many common symbols of iluuminati , freemasonry and Zionism shown in this documentary.

+ I am not any expert in these fields and I said what I know.

reply to post by KawRider9


#1
Personally, I don't care too much about who the Investigation Committee uses for background checks. First and foremost, I want that background check to be complete and thorough. If there is a company out there that can do this, prices are right, and they are owned/run by Masons, then sure I'd vote to use them.

My lodge currently uses our State Investigation Bureau, FYI.

#2
Freemasonry welcomes ALL races and creeds to petition. Granted, some individual Masons may still hold racial biases (shame!) and may use their anonymous vote to hold up that petitioner, but Freemasonry welcomes all.

As far the Bible vs Koran goes, this should also be a non-issue in any lodge. If a Jewish candidate or brother prefers the use of the Torah, we'll go get one for him. Same with a Koran. The Bible is used by default in the USA since Christianity seems to be the majority around here, but any Holy Book can be laid upon the altar for the candidate/brother taking a degree.

I guess I've never heard of this being an issue in the lodges I visit. Hope you find resolution to all this in Illinois.

Originally posted by AnonymousCitizen

Originally posted by mideast
reply to post by KawRider9

 

But , if you think there is any place for Jesus in freemasonry , I should tell you there is no place.

Wow. Is that a widespread belief in Masonry? I've always thought it was, but have never seen it so boldly stated.

You check it for yourself.

And have in mind and check this also :

many common symbols of iluuminati , freemasonry and Zionism shown in this documentary.

Originally posted by mideast

many common symbols of iluuminati , freemasonry and Zionism shown in this documentary.

Do not believe everything you see on the internet.

Of the documentaries I have seen on Freemasonry, most are either highly inaccurate or blatent lies.

Originally posted by Saurus

Originally posted by mideast

many common symbols of iluuminati , freemasonry and Zionism shown in this documentary.

Do not believe everything you see on the internet.

Of the documentaries I have seen on Freemasonry, most are either highly inaccurate or blatent lies.

edit on 26/9/2012 by Saurus because: (no reason given)

Inside.The.Freemasons.The.Grand.Lodge.Uncovered.2010

This is from inside of grand lodge of London

You can check it for yourself.

reply to post by mideast


If it's This video you're talking about, I don't see why you have a problem with it...?

Thank you for the replies guys. You have changed my mind on the Koran/Holy Bible deal!

I guess I'm an intolerant a$$ that needs to "learn to subdue my passions"