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+ I don't decide for you.
Because those who join are not Muslims.
But , if you think there is any place for Jesus in freemasonry , I should tell you there is no place.
There is just moses and david and solomon. No jesus.
Anyway , they have built church for christians , but that doesn't mean they have accepted Jesus as a guide or teacher.
In fact they don't talk about Solomon possessing daemons , they call him the king and they wan this temple to be rebuilt in Jerusalem.
You can see many common symbols of iluuminati , freemasonry and Zionism shown in this documentary.
Originally posted by KawRider9
Thank you for the replies guys. You have changed my mind on the Koran/Holy Bible deal!
I guess I'm an intolerant a$$ that needs to "learn to subdue my passions"
Originally posted by BrianG
Judge not a man by what book he reads but by how he acts
Originally posted by MadQuacker
reply to post by Saurus
sorry off topic, i have been looking into joining the mason's my only issue is the religious side, i do believe in a higher power but i don't actively attend any church or specific following, Would the fact that im not actively religious cause a issue? or is just believing enough?
On topic, From my understanding you can be what ever religion you want as long as you believe, and i would think that if a Muslim wanted to join that it would not make sense for him to swear a oath on a book that he does not believe in.
I can't speak on the other stuff as i am not a mason, i have done some digging around tho because i do wish to join. My wife's grandfather was a Shriner and they did a lot for her as a child with a illness. I admire that and would like to hopefully be part of it one day
Originally posted by MadQuacker
sorry off topic, i have been looking into joining the mason's my only issue is the religious side, i do believe in a higher power but i don't actively attend any church or specific following, Would the fact that im not actively religious cause a issue? or is just believing enough?
On topic, From my understanding you can be what ever religion you want as long as you believe, and i would think that if a Muslim wanted to join that it would not make sense for him to swear a oath on a book that he does not believe in.
I can't speak on the other stuff as i am not a mason, i have done some digging around tho because i do wish to join. My wife's grandfather was a Shriner and they did a lot for her as a child with a illness. I admire that and would like to hopefully be part of it one day
My lodge allows for background checks, but I believe Grand Law lodge says it has to come through a third party check. (In other words, brothers who are in law enforcement are prohibited from mixing their business with their Masonic affiliation, which I agree with.)
Originally posted by KawRider9
1... To hire an outside, non-masonic company to do our investigations and back ground checks on potential candidates... I don't understand this at all and it seems highly moronic. Actually, it pisses me off that it's even being considered. Your thoughts?
I have been at the raising of 3 or 4 Master Masons on the Qur’an. One of the brothers even tracked down a brother in the Middle East to confirm appropriate passages for it to be open to for each degree. I see nothing wrong with this. The volume of sacred law is there during the conducting of degrees for the candidate, not for any other brother in the room. The Bible is open on the altar as well, but the book of the candidate's faith is what is important.
2... To allow Muslims wanting to join, the choice of using the Koran instead of the Holy Bible.....I don't want to sound like a Muslim hating racist, so I'll just say, I DON'T LIKE THIS! I can't go into what's said in our degree work here, but the Holy Bible is a big part of it. Your thoughts?
During a degree, the Bible gives light to the Worshipful Master, but the book of the candidate's faith is what gives him guidance, and that should be respected.
Art. 397. (434). Religious Belief. A firm belief in the existence of God, the immortality of the soul, and the divine authenticity of the Holy Scriptures is indispensably necessary before a candidate can be initiated, but this Grand Lodge does not presume to prescribe any canonical books or what part thereof are inspired. It is the policy of this Grand Lodge to permit a candidate whose religious persuasion is based upon other than the Holy Bible to be obligated upon the book of his chosen faith, and same may be situated upon the Altar in front of the Holy Bible during the conferral of the three degrees of Masonry. In which event, all esoteric references to “The Holy Bible” during the conferral of the degree(s) and the lessons appropriate thereto shall be substituted with “The Book of your (my) Faith.”
Mideast is not a Mason and has no idea what he's talking about.
Originally posted by AnonymousCitizen
Wow. Is that a widespread belief in Masonry? I've always thought it was, but have never seen it so boldly stated.
Originally posted by Saurus
Originally posted by mideast
IMO , they can use any other book.
The book must be Sacred to the Mason in question.
Originally posted by JoshNorton
The volume of sacred law is there during the conducting of degrees for the candidate, not for any other brother in the room. The Bible is open on the altar as well, but the book of the candidate's faith is what is important.
Originally posted by bkfd54
reply to post by KawRider9
Brother,
Personally, I feel personal interest should be removed from the investigations as many many lodges are full of self interest, personal agendas and bias. This may help cutail that; change is often good more so than bad.
Noted and I agree with you.....
Regarding your Qu'ran issue...You are sorely misstepping your obligation as a Mason and are seriously derilict in recalling your lessons. You are virally inept in your historical studies and should be considering a voluntary demit.
That seems a bit harsh.....
Athiests and Agnostics are not allowed. All religions believe in a single supreme being. Our variances in language prevent us from all refering to the GATOU as God so you have Allah and Yaweh and others. Would you cast out a Prince Hall Masonic Brother?
No, I would not cast out a Prince Hall Brother.....
Rethink your position Hiram
I did Brother. I said so at the bottom of page one! I also said, "I guess I'm an intolerant ass that need to learn to subdue my passions".
Thank you for giving your thoughts.
Add [/quote] when you're closing the quote above, and [quote] to reopen it where appropriate.
Originally posted by KawRider9
That didn't turn out how I wanted! How the heck do I split the above quotes, to make my posts separate?
Originally posted by KawRider9
I would like you thoughts on a couple of issues. Both of these items will be voted on in the Grand lodge(Illinois) this year and they both have me fuming .
1... To hire an outside, non-masonic company to do our investigations and back ground checks on potential candidates... I don't understand this at all and it seems highly moronic. Actually, it pisses me off that it's even being considered. Your thoughts?
2... To allow Muslims wanting to join, the choice of using the Koran instead of the Holy Bible.....I don't want to sound like a Muslim hating racist, so I'll just say, I DON'T LIKE THIS! I can't go into what's said in our degree work here, but the Holy Bible is a big part of it. Your thoughts?
Maybe some of you Brothers can shed some light on these matters for me. They both piss me off and I voiced my concerns at lodge last night.