French Magazine Runs Cartoons That Mock Muhammad

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by Hanrak77

 

Um, actually, if you dislike Christians because they are Christian, and not because each individual you have come across has irked you personally, then the chances are that you are a xenophobic goose stepper, on a one way trip to hell. If however you have understandable reasons for disliking Christian individuals then that is a different matter. Also, you may dislike many people who are Christian, but saying that you dislike Christians as a whole group is pretty racist, yeah.

Essentially, if you dislike any body because of a demographic they belong to, rather than on thier individual merits, you probably arent worth the skin you are in.

I'm going to disagree again with you.

You can tell a lot about someone by the company they keep. If someone subscribes to a dogma, and expresses it publically and enthusiastically, that advocates (or in this case requires) actions I find intolerable or despicable, I'm gonna find it hard to 'like' that person, no matter their other redeeming qualities.

I can still love them, admire them, even respect their innate human-ness, but I probably won't like them.

Originally posted by thePharaoh
Originally posted by Hanrak77


how about the fear of causing loss of life.....

Can you listen to what our proposing here? Whilst I don't want a single person to die from the actions of these cartoonists you are basically saying we must obey Muslims for fear of being attacked or killed. That is a BULLY in the truest form. My grandfather died fighting against oppression, for my country and my freedom so I'll be damned if I'll let a group of insane fanatics dictate to me what I can and cant do because they threaten to kill me.

Well at least the French are taking the lead they know sooner or later it's going to come to a head

Originally posted by DeadSnow
reply to post by Asktheanimals

 

Well it's sort of like having an argument with someone and insulting each other, it's all fun and games until somebodies mother gets mentioned. I don't see how the magazine benefits by insulting people, If they did the same to Christians I would have the same response. It's about respecting each others beliefs.

respecting each others beliefs?? it is the muslim that threatens violence and death if you insult ANY part of their religion. those muslims that live in a western culture do not respect the freedoms of that western culture and its people. it's simple...those muslims that commit violence in the name of their religion, should be deported immediately.

The French magazine Closer has just been raided, so that photo"s of a topless Kate Middleton could be retrieved so no more offence to the couple could be made. It's all about priorities

I say lets just get it out

all western nations should just run non stop cartoon and videos and just mock islam to riduculous levels

especially the part where they kll people over a cartoon

then they would make it so impossible to do business over there we could finally pull out and leave them alone and live on our own oil

and everyone would actually be better off

well, except the big oil CEO's

Originally posted by Bluesma

Originally posted by docgreen15
Can a someone explain to me why they get so angry about a joke? Like if someone was telling a joke about Jesus I wouldn't want to murder that person so why do some Muslims? Why can't they take a joke?

It is much like the Christians used to be in Europe, during their rise in power- you could not say anything about God (take his name in vain), could not make a joke, could not make any comment that might be misconscrued as heretic, without getting yourself jailed or killed. It is part of the method of rising to power.

Not exactly apples to apples ... violence is NOT a choice to the devoted Muslim.

"Under Sharia, those who insult Muhammad or Allah are to be put to death. So are those who desecrate the Qur'an, or commit other acts of blasphemy. This tradition began with Muhammad, as recorded in the Hadith and by his biographers. There is also a Qur'anic basis for it."

source

I'm no expert in Christianity but I do believe the Christian Bible says something like "love your enemies, turn the other cheek" and is that what they teach?

I will say any violence in the name of any 'God' is just archaic.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
The French magazine Closer has just been raided, so that photo"s of a topless Kate Middleton could be retrieved so no more offence to the couple could be made. It's all about priorities

I was waiting for this comparison and it's ridicules. They as individuals just like yourself, have a right to privacy and that is simply what this is about. If someone had taken naked photo's of you or your partner without your consent and published them you would also be well within your rights to take them to court and have something done. It is an invasion of privacy which everyone including Muslims have the right to.

Cartoons or a silly video about a religion is completely different. I will also add that William and Kate used the courts to achieve this the civilised way. The prince and his wife did not riot, kill or injure anyone over said photo's.

This is great news.

I'm not going to sit back and allow freedom of speech get taken away because of fear of a bunch of Islam extremists that are still stuck in the stone age.

These extremists are pissing me off because they're acting like pawns. Most of the people on this website would not protest something so STUPID. "oh no a cartoon/movie! Let's kill someone!" I mean come on. This is exactly what the Illuminati want and the stupid idiots are just playing into it like perfect little pawns.

/smh

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
reply to post by detachedindividual

 

Then those hundreds of thousands of people need to move to another country.
It's bad enough the way our governments steal our freedoms now we have to give them up for immigrants?

Sounds like the want a culture war, they should be careful what they demand. And if the cartoon offends them, they are free not to read it.

Millions have died to leave us the freedoms we supposed enjoy.
So we should give them up so a few hundred more won't die?

edit on 19-9-2012 by Asktheanimals because: added comment

No, listen to what I am saying!

Why is it so hard for people to read plain English?!

I agree with you, it is wrong. I am not suggesting that we should give up freedoms or that these religious fanatics should be allowed to dictate anything in our countries.

BUT

This doesn't change the fact that this will cause massive violence and civil unrest, and all because of the decision to print something that they KNEW would cause it!

I'm not saying that they shouldn't have printed it to placate anyone. I'm saying that the safety of others should be priority, over and above their desire for attention!

They're not making a valid statement. This isn't journalism. They are not being sensible or level headed. They knew what this would cause, and they have chosen to pour more oil on the fire for nothing more than publicity.

Once again, I AGREE WITH THE SENTIMENT HERE! These religious crazies should f off to a country where freedom of opinion and expression is not permitted. If they don't like the freedoms we have in our societies they shouldn't be living here.

What I am saying is that the right to print something does not automatically remove responsibility for it. You cannot just ignore common sense and REALITY - however horrid that reality is - because you want to piss people off!

This is about the reality of the world we live in and the responsibility we all have. It is incredibly irresponsible to be printing this kind of thing, in the middle of the turmoil already engulfing numerous nations. I agree with you that it is wrong to restrict freedoms, and I am not suggesting that we should. I am saying that people should be responsible, and think about the consequences of their actions before they use their freedoms for purposes other than genuine debate.

Is that clear enough? Do people know what I'm saying or is this going to get more responses of "you're supporting them!!!!!"

I've tried to explain it, I can't help it if people cant read a post and actually comprehend English.

reply to post by detachedindividual


If you think that there are thousands of people out there that are willing to die for this cause (Pro Muhammad/anti free speech). Well there are even more people who are willing to die for the right of freedom of speech. The Illimunati know this. WW3 is coming and even conspiracy theorists are their pawns right now.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
Look at it this way - can you imagine Christians rioting over the Monty Python movie The Life of Brian? Yes, it;s that ridiculous.

I think one minor thing is that this is a dangerous precedent to compare 'Christians' with 'Muslims' in this context or even just generalise all Muslims. We're all guilty of it from time to time but I don't think it's right.

There have and probably will be more extremeist Christians in the world. I realise most people here are from the US in general but in Ireland groups like the Orange Volunteers bombed churches, and I know the United States have had abortion clinic bombings etc ... These all happened in the last few years and there was an awful lot of it in the 90s.

I think people have to remind themselves at this point that it's a minority of Muslims carrying out these actions.

I've also heard a few persons say that Muslims aren't doing or saying enough to condemn these acts ... I work with at least three muslims I know of. So far this week only one of them tried to set me on fire and it was mostly due to my habit of removing the flat screen panel of the person's Apple Mac and replacing it with humorous pictures printed on transparencies. (The monitor lights up and you see the picture. It's really funny I promise.)

I know some of my Muslim friends have family in Saudi etc ... who perhaps wouldn't completely approve of them having a friend like me, and I suspect sometimes that the 'lack' of speaking out by these people is linked with these things. One of my friends told me last year that they had been to and watched beheadings in their home country. The same friend was married last month and did it 'back home' but has returned and intends to bring their wife next year.

I respect my friend's public silence and here is why ... The stage magicians Penn and Teller have stated they won't run a TV show making fun of Islam. Penn and Teller are mostly safe in Las Vegas USA from anyone that might make them go boom.

The difference between Penn and Teller and my friend is that Penn doesn't go back to the Middle East to get married and visit the vast majority of his family. There are people on this forum that condemn the French cartoons and say it was wrong for them to speak out, so please consider the situation of my friend. Honestly, how many here would endanger visiting their own family to make a point about freedom of speech in a country that at most will give you a pat on the back for doing so?

Just my thoughts.

I think that we should start a pool on how many innocent people will be murdered over these cartoons.

This will just once again prove that Islam is a violent religion.

Who will place the first bet?

Originally posted by thePharaoh

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
Oh God no! Not a cartoon!
If they don't like it they can move back to a country that doesn't allow it.
Otherwise live like the French.

what?? so being french means i have to be disrespectful?????

um...they dont like it, and, they are already in their own countries.....

the closet racists are really showing their true colours this week

edit on 19-9-2012 by thePharaoh because: (no reason given)

It's one thing to respect and learn from other cultures and another thing to alter your own to accommodate foreigners whether immigrants or not.

Either we stand for our values or lose them to socialist ideals such as "multi-culturalism" "pluralism" and "tolerance".

I respect other peoples for their cultures and appreciate the wide variety of human experience that come with it. I lament the way the West has penetrated so many cultures worldwide and we are losing much that is valuable in that way.

However, wishing to preserve one's own culture and values does not make one a racist.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
This is about the reality of the world we live in and the responsibility we all have. It is incredibly irresponsible to be printing this kind of thing, in the middle of the turmoil already engulfing numerous nations.

I responded your post fairly early and I've read your posts since then.

I understand what you're saying that we don't live in a world where this type of thing is tolerated yet ... but I think there is only one way to live in that world, and that is to create it.

Yes, you could say that people will die because of this ... but equally would you say the man in the white shirt that stood in front of the tanks in Tiananmen square caused a massacre?

I think there are some people on our planet that would like you to think it's irresponsible to make fun of them. The reality is, it's irresponsible for them to hold the world ransom to their ideals whilst simultaneously judging everyone else's. .

Charlie Hebdo has never been known for its restraint and good taste. The cartoon is not very funny, but that's not the point. They are showing that they will not allow the threat of violence to stifle their freedom of speech. It is this context that makes the cartoon different from one that is merely racist. The more Muslims resort to threats of violence, the more they will see their Prophet mocked.

reply to post by detachedindividual


This is making a very large assumption about the author's intent.
I think it's the media that is stirring the pot the most for whatever reason, to sow discord most likely.
Like the Innocence of the Muslims film (cough) that nobody should have been paying any attention to yet we're having riots over it? I'm not quite buying in to that being the root cause.

Sorry, I didn't really address your point earlier.

Years ago Hustler magazine did a parody of Jerry Falwell where he was supposedly having sex with his mother in an outhouse. While even I found it offensive, Falwell took Hustler to court and lost on first amendment grounds.
Falwell's mother was deceased at the time and while I thought It was awful I still felt he had every right to publish it even though someone would be hurt by it.
Long story short, Falwell and Larry Flynt (publisher) somehow overcame their differences and became friends. If they can overcome their differences the rest of us can as well I would hope.

they're probably so upset over the fact that the only thing they have in their lives is their religion and everyones making fun of it like a fat poor kid with 1 pair of clothes who ends up body slamming his bully.

Originally posted by Pinke

I think there are some people on our planet that would like you to think it's irresponsible to make fun of them. The reality is, it's irresponsible for them to hold the world ransom to their ideals whilst simultaneously judging everyone else's. .

Applause!
Bloody brilliant way to put it.

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by DeadSnow
reply to post by Asktheanimals

 

Well it's sort of like having an argument with someone and insulting each other, it's all fun and games until somebodies mother gets mentioned. I don't see how the magazine benefits by insulting people, If they did the same to Christians I would have the same response. It's about respecting each others beliefs.

respecting each others beliefs?? it is the muslim that threatens violence and death if you insult ANY part of their religion. those muslims that live in a western culture do not respect the freedoms of that western culture and its people. it's simple...those muslims that commit violence in the name of their religion, should be deported immediately.

Have you ever had a Muslim man threaten to kill you unless you converted? I think not. I guess you have your answer now.