"China unveils its brand new stealth fighter: the J-31 “Falcon Eagle”. But it’s a copy of the

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by solidshot

 

Shame that in 2012, nations are still pursuing weapons.

But the US mafia wont stop attacking countries who wont cooperate.

In all honesty, China could easily bring the US to its knees. All they would need to do is liquidate their debt and flood the market with bonds. After the initial sell off, a panic would ensue. RIP the US and the dollar.

Question, how much debt does China own? Here is an answer, basically the same as Japan. Not even close to the biggest holder of US debt.

Your suggesting for them to liquidate the debt is ludicrous. Can your mortgage company tell you to pony up $200k tomorrow or lose your house? How do people believe these things?

Originally posted by Orwells Ghost
reply to post by steppenwolf86

 

It was said that during WWII a German Tiger could account for at least eight Allied Shermans. Fortunately the Allies manufactured thirty Shermans for every Tiger, so there was always that ninth Sherman available. During Cold War planning for a Soviet invasion of Western Europe, NATO estimated that given the amount of inferior armour the Soviets could pour through Poland, they would run out of ammunition within a month, leaving them with no option other than tactical nuclear strikes which would quickly escalate into all out nuclear war.

Yep, there's no doubt that the Chinese are behind in many areas. That's where the number's game comes in. China doesn't really need airframes with lifespans equivalent to their Western counterparts do they? Provided that the fighting is taking place in their region of the world, they need only fight until the opposing battle group runs out of munitions and delivery systems.

How much ammunition is a Nuclear powered Free Electron Laser limited to? Pretty much everyone posting in this thread has zero idea of how superior the US is to China. How would China disrupt our supply lines with no naval power? Seriously, China might as well be throwing rocks from fishing boats, it would be just as effective and just as likely to do damage.

Wonder if they solved the hypoxia problem....

The F/A-22 Raptor does not only have the ability of Stealth...but it has a EM Manipulation Process that makes in INVISIBLE TO IR-DETECTION. This is a Tech. that ONLY THE U.S. POSSESSES. A Stealth Aircraft is WORTHLESS if it can be tracked by IR-Light Detectors.

The Chinese are not even CLOSE to any U.S. Military Tech. or Capabilities. China has over ONE AND A HALF BILLION TARGETS as their numbers are worthless without FORCE PROJECTION CAPABILITIES.

The United States Military controls every Ocean, all of the Sky and is BEYOND SUPER ADVANCED IN IT'S SUB TECH. The U.S. does not even discuss SUBS! There is a reason for this. The U.S. Navy has developed Water Jet Tech. which has allowed the U.S. Navy to develop the equivalent of an Underwater Fighter...like an F/A-22 of the Seas.

As far as Stealth Fighters...This Chinese Fighter is a piece of crap. Split Infinity

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by solidshot

 

Shame that in 2012, nations are still pursuing weapons.

But the US mafia wont stop attacking countries who wont cooperate.

In all honesty, China could easily bring the US to its knees. All they would need to do is liquidate their debt and flood the market with bonds. After the initial sell off, a panic would ensue. RIP the US and the dollar.

Ya know what is bigger shame posters who troll. ATS used to be a really cool place to hang out and read but posters like you are bringing it down fast.


Sorry OP I am just sick of idiot posters.

I could be wrong, and I have no clue. But I read this fictional novel maybe 10 years ago. It was a story about how a middle eastern country wanted to cause chaos in the west. So what they did is they bought a old soviet sub. The sent it to china or something like that. But there the middle eastern generals and sailors boarded. And from there they took it across the pacific to attack the west.

The book kind of describes a horrifying scenario as one sub with just a bunch of short range regular missles starts shooting them at precision targets in the west. Like oil storage areas, main power stations, and other key targets. It would just come to the surface briefly shoot a bunch of the missles and then dive very deep and slowly meyander away.

By doing that it temporarily disabled the power grid across the western side of the US and Canada. And caused a fuel shortage which made the gas stations go dry and caused gridlock and stuff like that.

And then in the book the west sent in the navy to try and find the sub but because it can cruise almost silently and go for months on end without having to resurface they literally would disappear.

Im not sure if this book was based on fact or fiction but it went to show how vulnerable we actually could be and we might not even realize it. It made it sound as if the subs are pretty much one of the deadliest peices of hardware there are. I know that all the nukes now are all just held in subs. I'm sure they have many silos still armed but it's hard to say.

Anyway, if the chinese have many subs which I'm not sure if they do or not, they could easily take on any nation it would seem. But I don't know, I think at the top they're all working together now anyway.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


The US has broken the laws of physics?

Wow.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


The German's had super weapons too (wunderwaffe), they weren't enough.

Originally posted by Orwells Ghost
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

The German's had super weapons too (wunderwaffe), they weren't enough.

Yes, but there are major differences. The Germans had the Me-262, a jet, but it still had to shoot down planes with guns. The AIM-120, and the ability of AWACS and modern radars to track and engage multiple targets more than evens whatever odds the US would face. Not to mention that we could cut off the supply of oil and food as someone said, and that even if the US does not launch a new carrier in the next 50 years, we will still enjoy an advantage over the Chinese at sea... And still not taking into account all of the other ships that make up our navy.

I think by now we all understand your argument, but are you going to back it up with statistics or analysis or simply repeat yourself over and over?

looks like a cheap knockoff of the f-22. too bad the jet is 1/3 of the equation. if you dont have good pilots and great software to help the pilots you just have a really expensive paper weight.

reply to post by steppenwolf86


99% of statistics are useless (:/), and I can't give you numbers I don't have. How many free electron laser's does the US Navy have ready to deploy? How many anti-carrier ballistic missiles do the Chinese have ready to launch? How many hostile subs are trailing US carrier groups right this moment? How long will it take China to seal the Panama Canal? How many and which military systems have either side compromised? What is the extent of both sides cyber-warfare preparations? Who wants it more?

All I ever hear in these threads is talk of the US and their uber-lasers, UFO's, EM weapons, rods from god, sound cannons, superior skills etc etc. A technological edge is no guarantee of victory and the more complex the machine, the easier it is to gum up the works. I sincerely hope that the planners at the Pentagon take the Chinese more seriously, as it would be a shame if sheer hubris is what brings down America. Stop underestimating your opponents.

reply to post by Orwells Ghost


I agree and believe that industrial capacity is more important than technological advantages. The best current Chinese developed fighter is the J-10. One on one it won't beat the F-22 or even the mainline fighters of other powers. However in terms of cost to performance ratios it is impressive and based on an old but one of the best multirole fighters the US has produced - the F-16. This airframe was used in the Israeli Lavi program which was cancelled by Israel but picked up by the Chinese to create the J-10. The technology may be old but it is a solid design that was made better by Israel who isn’t exactly backward when it comes to tech. The F-35 will be the main fighter used by US allies in the future as well as the main fighter in the US fleet. For the price of 1 F-35 China can build 7 J-10's. So even if the J-31 or J-20 don't turn out to be a decent fighters in terms of cost to performance China could still have a formidable airforce if they decided to gear up for war and start mass producing J-10's. I agree it's not wise to underestimate them.

Originally posted by Strakha
reply to post by Orwells Ghost

 

I agree and believe that industrial capacity is more important than technological advantages. The best current Chinese developed fighter is the J-10. One on one it won't beat the F-22 or even the mainline fighters of other powers. However in terms of cost to performance ratios it is impressive and based on an old but one of the best multirole fighters the US has produced - the F-16. This airframe was used in the Israeli Lavi program which was cancelled by Israel but picked up by the Chinese to create the J-10. The technology may be old but it is a solid design that was made better by Israel who isn’t exactly backward when it comes to tech. The F-35 will be the main fighter used by US allies in the future as well as the main fighter in the US fleet. For the price of 1 F-35 China can build 7 J-10's. So even if the J-31 or J-20 don't turn out to be a decent fighters in terms of cost to performance China could still have a formidable airforce if they decided to gear up for war and start mass producing J-10's. I agree it's not wise to underestimate them.

It doesn't matter how many fighters China builds...............the F22 and F35 are stealth fighters........CHINESE FIGHTERS WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DETECT THEM, let alone be able to shoot them down.

If we were at war with china, their industrial capacity would not matter at all. Just like germany's didn't after we bombed their ballbearing factories. No ball bearings not modern machinery period.

Like we would just allow china to crank up their production and make millions of cheap fighters during a war with us, we would destroy their entire ensustrial capacity in less then a month tops, right off the start, while simultaniouly cutting off all resource acuitions. It is the first round of business in modern warfare, and they are powerless to stop us from achieving it.

Also we would continue to crank out top grade war goods, with no way for them to stop or een slow us down, as they lack any means of attacking us, minus a nuke strike.

Their subs wouldn't matter at all, our subs have the best sonar auits ever created, our active sonars are unbelievably advanced, and nobody knows how good they are, as we never use them, relying mostly on passive sonar, we just listen to the sounds in the water, as active sonar not only gives away any and all ships in hundreds of miles of ocean, bbut places a giant bullseye on the sub that uses it.

This is of course. Not including our surface assets which also handle their business quite well, sonar bouy networks already in place, bouy planes, helicopters etc.

China cannot any time in the forseeable future have a winnable war with the U.S. this isn't the comparrison of WW2 germany vs the allies. This is WW2 germany vs the modern world, there is no comparrison. It is not even comparable.

www.washingtontimes.com...

I guess only time will tell.

reply to post by Orwells Ghost


That was the sub incident referred to in a previous post.

The biggest advantage that China has (besides the obvious one of numbers), is the fact that the US Navy is a blue water navy. They have problems with littoral operations in any kind of large numbers, which is why the LCS, and Virginia are being built (and from what I've read, the Freedom class LCS is a giant steaming POS). China will be able to push the Navy farther out to sea, to areas where the PLAN are still learning to operate well, so that the Navy will have to rely on tankers to get strike packages to their targets.

In response to the post that the Chinese will take 10 years to catch up to the US, it will take longer than that for them to catch us. Technologically, they may catch up within 10-20 years, but doctrine wise, it will take much longer than that. Doctrine plays a huge role in military success, as well as technology. You can have all the free electron lasers you want, or the biggest navy/air force in the world, and if you don't know how to use it "correctly", it's a moot point.

As for the comment that the Chinese won't even see the F-22/F-35s, yes they will. You are talking very limited numbers of stealth aircraft (even with the numbers of the F-35s planned on), against large numbers of conventional aircraft. Stealth does not equal invisible, just very hard to see. Sooner or later they WILL be seen, and tracked, and they WILL be shot down. A sniper (F-22/F-35) can't win the war, it just changes the playing field.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Orwells Ghost

 

That was the sub incident referred to in a previous post.

The biggest advantage that China has (besides the obvious one of numbers), is the fact that the US Navy is a blue water navy. They have problems with littoral operations in any kind of large numbers, which is why the LCS, and Virginia are being built (and from what I've read, the Freedom class LCS is a giant steaming POS). China will be able to push the Navy farther out to sea, to areas where the PLAN are still learning to operate well, so that the Navy will have to rely on tankers to get strike packages to their targets.

In response to the post that the Chinese will take 10 years to catch up to the US, it will take longer than that for them to catch us. Technologically, they may catch up within 10-20 years, but doctrine wise, it will take much longer than that. Doctrine plays a huge role in military success, as well as technology. You can have all the free electron lasers you want, or the biggest navy/air force in the world, and if you don't know how to use it "correctly", it's a moot point.

As for the comment that the Chinese won't even see the F-22/F-35s, yes they will. You are talking very limited numbers of stealth aircraft (even with the numbers of the F-35s planned on), against large numbers of conventional aircraft. Stealth does not equal invisible, just very hard to see. Sooner or later they WILL be seen, and tracked, and they WILL be shot down. A sniper (F-22/F-35) can't win the war, it just changes the playing field.

The whole goal of them is to avoid dogfights. They can detect and kill Chinese craft at range. Show me any evidence that even if they DO discover our aircraft they can actually catch them and force a dogfight.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Sooner or later, even if by accident, an F-22 or an F-35 is going to get caught in a dogfight. If they weren't ever going to get caught in one, then why do they train so hard at WVR during exercises? People can say dogfighting is dead all they want, but they're still going to eventually get caught in one.

All it takes is for a Raptor driver to make one mistake and he's caught in a furball. Or for one lucky Chinese pilot to be in the right place to get a radio call out and give away their position. The Raptor is not perfect, and it's not the be all end all of military aviation. It's flown by people, and people make mistakes all the time (look at the F-117 that was shot down, they flew on the same route every night, and got complacent).

China flies SU-27s, and other advanced Russian designs. Just because they're Chinese doesn't mean they aren't capable. Yes, they might get their heads handed to them by the F-22s, but all it takes is one in the right place at the right time, and you just lost an F-22.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Sooner or later, even if by accident, an F-22 or an F-35 is going to get caught in a dogfight. If they weren't ever going to get caught in one, then why do they train so hard at WVR during exercises? People can say dogfighting is dead all they want, but they're still going to eventually get caught in one.

All it takes is for a Raptor driver to make one mistake and he's caught in a furball. Or for one lucky Chinese pilot to be in the right place to get a radio call out and give away their position. The Raptor is not perfect, and it's not the be all end all of military aviation. It's flown by people, and people make mistakes all the time (look at the F-117 that was shot down, they flew on the same route every night, and got complacent).

China flies SU-27s, and other advanced Russian designs. Just because they're Chinese doesn't mean they aren't capable. Yes, they might get their heads handed to them by the F-22s, but all it takes is one in the right place at the right time, and you just lost an F-22.

edit on 9/22/2012 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)

You do realize that when the F-22 was forced to engage in a dogfight during wargames it held its own against the very best fighters in the world. So no. The odds are extremely small the Chinese will EVER get one in a dogfight, and if they did what suggests to you the F-22, which is very capable in a dog fight and is flown by the best of the best pilots America has to offer will lose the fight? Is it possible. Of course. I think the odds the F-22 has a malfunction and crashes is far higher though.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


You know you don't have to quote my entire post that's right above yours right? It makes it harder to read your reply.

Raptor drivers are selected from the pilot pool, just like other planes. They are flown by Captains, and Majors, and people that haven't had time to become "the best of the best" yet. People that have high scores in pilot training yes, but they aren't always "the best of the best". And the F-22 has lost against just regular Joe pilots as well as some of the best flying.

Yes, the F-22 is good, but this idea that the Chinese would never be able to force one into a dogfight, or shoot one down if they do is absurd. They could lay a trap for them, or any number of other scenarios so the F-22s had to get into a fight, and could be overwhelmed by numbers.

Where's the proof that the Chinese CAN'T down an F-22? Anyone can bring one down under the right circumstances, and if you think that the Chinese and Russians haven't dedicated teams to figuring out ways to combat the F-22, you really need to think about that some more. They have almost certainly developed tactics against them, and all it takes is for them to work once.