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"China unveils its brand new stealth fighter: the J-31 “Falcon Eagle”. But it’s a copy of the

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posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 03:13 PM

Pictures of a previously unknown brand new fighter jet have started to appear online over the weekend. Built by the Shenyang company, the new aircraft, could be the answer of the aerospace firm to the Chengdu J-20, whose two prototypes have already become quite famous across the world since the first images of the large, short-take off and landing stealth plane, leaked on the Chinese defense forums about two years ago.

Would be interesting to see some higher res images from a better angle? but I suppose it's no surprise that they have launched yet another stealth aircraft so soon, considering they have reputedly hacked just about every military network in the US?

posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 03:17 PM
Why not have a clone of the F-22? They already have the SR-71. And that bad boy is still as deadly a weapon today as it was 3 decades ago

posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 03:19 PM
reply to post by solidshot

Knowing how the Chinese aim for quantity and visuals, I would guess that thing is fancy garbage.

posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 03:21 PM
reply to post by solidshot

Shame that in 2012, nations are still pursuing weapons.

But the US mafia wont stop attacking countries who wont cooperate.

In all honesty, China could easily bring the US to its knees. All they would need to do is liquidate their debt and flood the market with bonds. After the initial sell off, a panic would ensue. RIP the US and the dollar.

posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 03:22 PM
It's the "Previously Unknown" part that gives me pause. While hearing so many run down and generally belittle the Chinese ability to produce on par with or close to it for U.S. military systems...I wonder just how much else is 'Unknown' and will remain that way for years or until needed?

I this what 3,000 miles of tunnels and those armored Aircraft tunnel/shelter entrances are all about? Does China have themselves an Air Force to match the floor model, sitting out of sight? Interesting thing to just appear with.
edit on 16-9-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: minor correction.

posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 03:34 PM
reply to post by solidshot

meh, the chinese are known far and above for primarily 2 things, hacking, and making cheap imitation knock offs.

I see this as a combination of the 2, that still equals cheap chinese crap. It does not in any way compare to the
F-22, as the raptor has thrust vectoring and super cruise( thrust vectoring allows the exhaust gases to be directed to make crzy fast turns possible) (super cruise allows speeds only achieved with afterburners, by dumping raw fuels into the hot exhaust, but it costs alot in fuel comsumption. think 4barrel carb with a super charger, super cruise accomplishes this without added fual expendeture, it is amazing)

In short, I see this as just a cheap knockoff to scare the world, and glorify the state to their people.

posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 04:36 PM
China is not yet a match for the US, but at the rate they are going in 10 years they will be. That said a fight over Taiwan would favor China simply because of location and the remoteness of US airbases.

As far as China ruining the dollar they certainly can. I expect that someday they will. There are serious problems for China in doing that. First, it will greatly impact their economy hitting them almost as hard. Second, they really don't want to piss off the US too bad. Guess who provides who with vast tons of food every year. China is working on securing a food supply independent of the US because they know the US can hurt them on that.

Also, China knows that even if the US can't beat them a hundred miles off Chinas' coast what the US can do is enforce a long range naval blockade and stop all shipping. This would pretty much ruin China. They'd be bankrupt and starving.

Until China can match the US in the blue waters they are not our equals. That stunt they pulled by popping a sub up in the midst of a US carrier group was just that.....a stunt. The US doesn't do full anti-sub operations unless they see a need to and that day they had no sonabuoys in the water, did not have their whale disorienting top notch sonar running, and so on. As for the carrier killing chinese ballistic missile it has yet to be tested, much less against a moving target that possesses counter-measures. Their other anti-ship missile is a short range thing that like the Russians Sunburn has to be delivered to within a couple of hundred miles of its' target.

How do you target ballistic missiles on a moving target without satellites? In the late 1980s the US abandoned satellite killing missiles in favor of electronic warfare. Nobody has heard a word since about what our capabilities are, but if China can tinker around in our sats you can be sure the US can do the same.

That brings me to a big difference between the differing mentalities of China and the US. The US is the accepted top dog and China wants to be seen as its' equal. China is ever eager to show off its' new gear. It likes to surprise everybody with what it has. The US has no such inferiority complex. They prefer to keep what they can secretive. You can't hide a hundred billion dollar front line fighter project in the US, but you can hide a stealth chopper until it goes down during operations. You can hide stealth drones until they are discovered operating in combat. You can hide drone space craft until it's on the launchpad. You can hide Hubble 2 and Hubble 3 until the NSA decides they don't need them and gives them away to Nasa. What else is the US hiding?

As far as the J-20 is concerned it is already behind the times by still being a prototype. The F22 is deployed and the US is looking to the future. Rumor has it that an upcoming project is a longer range air superiority strike fighter with carrier deck capability. The US is desparate for a carrier plane that has some real range so carriers can operate farther from their targets (which is safer) without vulnerable refueling planes hanging out there. So unless the cash runs out expect to see a big burly twin engine two seat stealth fighter with a 1500-2000 mile stand alone range.

edit on 16-9-2012 by Erectus because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 05:05 PM

Originally posted by 369821
Why not have a clone of the F-22? They already have the SR-71. And that bad boy is still as deadly a weapon today as it was 3 decades ago

as far as i know the sr-71 is a reconnaissance aircraft and not a fighter or bomber.
therefore it is a fast ass tool and not a weapon.

posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 04:08 AM
Looking like the F-22 or the Japanese ATD-X is only 20% of it.

What kind of avionics does this thing pack? Is it running something like an AN/APG-63 or is it running something like an AN/APG-79?

Basically - are you looking an an F-15C's generation 1 radar or the 2nd generation of F-18E/F radar that shares many capabilities with the F-35's AN/APG-81?

Is it packing an Atari or an Xbox?

Also, what's it made of, structurally?

We put decades of research into LO-materials, high-temperature composites, and metal-composite junctions with almost a century of metallurgical development.

Can the Chinese match that?

What's under the hood?

Again - decades upon decades of engine design and development. Each generation of jet engine offers 15%+ gains in fuel efficiency and thrust generation. Is this thing going to be pissing away fuel like an F-4 to try and match us or is it going to be lean and mean like our latest engine revisions for the F-18?

And what kind of maintenance cycles are we looking at?

The F-22 was a rude awakening. Aircraft that require daily manicures to keep them from falling into 50% mission readiness ratings (ouch) are not very practical to deploy and will end up having to go through costly revisions and rebuilds to address those issues.

Sure - it looks pretty. But does it match the aircraft we designed in the mid 80s or does it merely look like it?

posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 06:54 AM
America gave China our current stealth aircraft and techniques.

Northrup Grumman used the H-1 Visa Program and brought in a man from India to work on the B-2 Bomber. Noshir Gowadia.

After Noshir Gowadia designed and built America's B-2 bomber, he GAVE the blueprints and knowledge to China along with a few other countries. He ALSO designed China a stealth cruise missile.

It was Northrup Grumman's activities of bringing in foreigners to work on our secret stealth planes....that led to ALLLLLL our technology and capabilities being handed to the Chinese....100% free.

This new J-31 appears may be what they use on their 2 home built aircraft carriers they are finishing up on and will be starting sea trials shortly. Which will put China at only 3 operational aircraft carriers, but fairly modern if they are flying these off the decks.

Wait until you see China unveil their Stealth Bombers.....blame Northrup Grumman, DOD, Congress....guess they wanted to create a bad guy to keep justifying their budget.

posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 07:00 AM
Oh no!! A fighter jet that is made in China?!!
I havent even seen a flippin' can-opener from china that survived more than 6 times of usage!

Their population better RUN FOR COVER when one of them jets fly overhead!! If its not wings falling off of it, it will be bolts and nuts at the very least coming at ya.

What is China trying to do? Eliminate their own population from overhead??

posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 07:25 AM
China is much smarter than U.S.A.

They export low quality consumer goods for hard cash, and use it to build higher quality domestic products for defense and infrastructure. Bridges and roads in China can support the largest tanks and self propelled guns, Airports and all municipal facilities will serve double duty for military, all parking garages and apartments have either foot thick blast doors or deep underground structures that serve for civil defense.
If China loses its electrical grid, people go back to living as they did 25 years ago. If the USA loses its electrical grid, the nation is in ruins and population in hysterics.

posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 07:30 AM
How many centuries of "free-markets" and independent thought will it take before the Chinese can innovate anything? I'm betting on at least 2, and possibly closer to 3.

posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 07:39 AM
I'd really note here for the folks who find great humor in laughing at China and Russia, for that matter...They aren't primitive. Far from it. Where it does matter, they're as advanced as we are, for the amount of time they've been at it. More China than Russia for that, as Russia has been neck and neck with us from the start.

The difference people over here seem to view as weakness ...WOULD be...if China intended to fight HERE. Unlike the U.S., not every nation builds their forces to project power INTO other nations, in my opinion. but to keep others OUT.

The U.S. builds great and mighty feats of Technology and by the dozens! "We have mighty stealth! We big kid on block! hoo hoo hoo".

Well, China sees our dozens with designs using the best of our own....dropping the stupid and expensive...and have capability to churn them out by the hundreds or thousands.

EXACTLY what allowed the United States to win World War II is what we now are on the wrong side of for World War III. Germany had FAR superior technology at the end of the war. Jet fighters. Actual, working and fully operational jet a world of prop planes. It COULD have been a game ender.......but dozens of jets vs. thousands of prop planes made mince meat of the Luftwaffe just as they reached the peak of achievement for that era.

Just a thought to consider....and why I personally think a war with China fought here would be a 100% U.S. win while any war fought against China in Asia would be our Grande Finale' for an Empire reaching one step too far, one time too many.

posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 01:16 PM
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

You said it man. Quantity has a quality all it's own; and anyone who thinks that the QC standards on China's military production lines are the same as their can-openers for America line is either stupid or deluding themselves.

posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 12:12 PM
reply to post by Orwells Ghost

Just found this on Google: ighter-production/

And that is the whole of the argument. China may be able to design pretty planes, but can they build the engines to fly them? That analysis says 5-10 years, but I would argue it might even be longer, especially after the retraction of the J/11 Su-27 licensing with the Russians. The Chinese copied the Russian design and the Russians were so unhappy, they ended the agreement early. Chinese engines are famous for their high maintenance and failure rate(Why is there a successful Civilian mid-sized passenger plane manufacturer based in Brazil but nothing of the sort in China? I wonder...). Even being gifted with the plans or test engines does not help all that much, as someone mentioned previously it is also about metallurgical advancements. If China does not significantly improve in Time Between Overhaul on their engines, I am not concerned... Because the more advanced you get with the 5th gen planes, Super cruise etc, the more the QUALITY needs to be there.

As for a battle in the Formosa Strait, we would park our carriers on the far side of Taiwan, fly 22s out of Japan and Okinawa, and would be able to handle them. Everyone would take losses, but China has never sent an expeditionary force anywhere, much less mustered up a naval deployment 1/4th of the size of an invasion fleet. There is a reason every time there is a dispute we send another carrier there just in case, the Chinese know they would have difficulty overcoming that much firepower.

posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 12:33 PM
reply to post by steppenwolf86

It was said that during WWII a German Tiger could account for at least eight Allied Shermans. Fortunately the Allies manufactured thirty Shermans for every Tiger, so there was always that ninth Sherman available. During Cold War planning for a Soviet invasion of Western Europe, NATO estimated that given the amount of inferior armour the Soviets could pour through Poland, they would run out of ammunition within a month, leaving them with no option other than tactical nuclear strikes which would quickly escalate into all out nuclear war.

Yep, there's no doubt that the Chinese are behind in many areas. That's where the number's game comes in. China doesn't really need airframes with lifespans equivalent to their Western counterparts do they? Provided that the fighting is taking place in their region of the world, they need only fight until the opposing battle group runs out of munitions and delivery systems.

posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 01:03 PM
reply to post by Orwells Ghost

Okay, point taken. So, their 2-3 planes that have yet to enter production are looking very scary if they chose to move across the strait right this minute.

posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 01:06 PM
Most likely built by sticks and glue..

posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 07:42 PM

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by solidshot

In all honesty, China could easily bring the US to its knees. All they would need to do is liquidate their debt and flood the market with bonds. After the initial sell off, a panic would ensue. RIP the US and the dollar.

I would doubt that honestly. we have over 16 trillion in national debt, and China owns only like 1.2-1.5 trillion of that. So would it hurt? yeah. Would it "RIP the dollar"? Not really.

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