reply to post by sheepslayer247
I disagree. Stand in front of ANY grown man, call his wife a slut and tell me that you didn't expect to get your teeth knocked in.
Does that change the fact that you would be the one penalized by law for punching someone in the face???
Regardless of the anger it may cause, a physical assault of the person who said something insulting isn't justified.
Islam does not teach anything more "radical" than what can be read in the Old Testament. Self-control related to violence is more of a social/cultural
issue more than religion
As I've written before, what matters is not whats said, but how it's interpreted.
Western tradition - Judaism and Christianity, both worship a God who is intimately related with his creation: God manifests himself in the form of
creation: in physical reality. Therefore, God is at one with the logos within, and the logos - His reason - functions in mans mind as a means to
connect with God. This is the crux of western spirituality. In Islam, reason is deprecated; God is not bound by creation, he is the totally OTHER -
pure will - with no relationship to this world; the desert best serves as a metaphor for what this world is relative to God; a desolate nothingness.
Hence the Islamic Hajj, where a Muslim 'journeys' through the desert or world of nothingness in search of the divine essence - symbolized by the black
Kaaba of Mecca. This world is subsumed by the essence - and the essence cannot be transmitted through reason, but through the divinely will: and the
divine will is the revealed word of Allah in the Quran, hence, the Quran is also professed to be co-eternal with Allah.
Conscience is an activity of reason within him guiding him in the right way to act; it is Gods "walking through the garden" of mans consciousness,
calling out and gnawing at his heart to live rightly.
This is how "normal" people function. Christianity and Judaism chose a God of reason who is reasonable and desires His creatures to live reasonably;
God is also said to love his creatures; Islam says the opposite. Only an incomplete creature feels the need to love, and God is perfect completion,
therefore, God cannot love man. However, Al Ghazali teaches, insomuch as man is incomplete, it's a commandment that man strive in his love for God.
Problem is - God - is seen impersonally. He does not return the love in the eyes of the orthodox Sunni establishment. He is just an essence, a GREAT
AND POWERFUL GOD, who a Muslim is too obviated by to even care for his love; it's an intense spiritual relationship, but it deprives man of any
mobility of freedom of thought and action. It is suffocating to the extreme. It is the sole reason why the Arab world is so barren of ideas. Even in
Pakistan, it's scientists were directed to replace language like "hydrogen and oxygen make water" with "When Allah brings Hyrdogen with oxygen he
creates water" - ridiculousness - stripping physical reality of any factual existence, that it is the hydrogen and oxygen in ITSELF - an in possessing
intrinsic properties - for it to create water.
Thus, the behavior we see of Muslims in their exaggerated response to a video is the result of the Islamic way of thinking. There is a metaphysical
viewpoint that posits God as Will - and not reason. Al Ghazali assumes this kind of dialectic: Just as sight is contradicted by reason, reason is
contradicted by the transcendence of intuition. Intuition in Al Ghazalis thought is concomitant with the insight bequeathed by investigation of Gods
revealed Will in the Quran, and to a lesser extent, the Hadith. It's from an understanding of this transcendent 'truth' that one learns how to think
"Anyone can see that what was said about Islam was crude.".
My "caveat" followed 2 paragraphs of defending our right to say what we want. In other words, it was something that deserved mentioning, but only
after stressing what it is our civilization stands for.
Anyway, this is a bad situation and it goes much deeper than this video, Obama and our right to free speech. This is about years of US manipulation in
the region and we are reaping what we sow after all this time.
That's putting the cart before the horses. The Arab world was a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. As I wrote elsewhere:
If America has taken advantage of the middle east, its probably because it couldn't have been any other way. They couldn't convert them to their way
of thinking - to acceptance of liberal democracy and constitutional government, not at least against their will; So what else? Insulate ourselves from
them? From a religion that deifies power above reason? You think they will 'respect' your non-interference in their societies? Even though 'respect'
is a value judgement based on reason - recognition of a good done to you and thus the good deserved in return? That's a stipulation of reason. Islamic
morality is predicated on the Quran and the Hadith. Not conscience. It's not like Judaism or Christianity - but far more radical.
15-9-2012 by dontreally because: (no reason given)