The Behaviour Modification of America

We have freedom of speech, but we also have responsibility for the words we choose to say. There are laws on the books for slandering or defaming people and if there were total freedom of speech these laws would have been struck down long ago.

They exist because we have a responsibility for what and how we say it. We can not speak to injure others. However we have the freedom to speak our minds as long as we don't injure the character of another.

I think that the true extent of what freedom of speech entails is demonstrated by the Westboro church people. While I don't agree in any way with their foolish hate filled words, they have the right to speak them.

If the rest of the world, muslims and others don't like our freedoms as far as I'm concerned they can all shove it where the sun don't shine. To me they are overly sensitive to everything that anyone says.They need to grow a pair and stop behaving like a petulent child.

As to people burning the koran, which of the hundreds of versions were they burning, and why should I care? Burn all the bibles you want, as a christian, I'll just think that you are ignorant, I'm not going to try to kill you or protest what you did, my "religion" doesn't teach that I need to kill you because you don't believe as I do. At least not anymore.

I agree that we are being conditioned to respond to the petulant children of the middle east by apologising for things that we don't see as that bad because we are used to having our speech freedoms. They are used to being ruled by despots and dictators. I'm sure that their mostly former rulers dealt out stiff punishment for them speaking out. Plus their "religion" tells them that we are all infidals and only fit for killing. No wonder they act as they do.

I'm not so sure that it's behavior modification, per say, I think we respond that way because we have so many interests there and we don't want to upset the applecart so to speak. So in order to get what we want from these people we have to bow to them when they behave this way. Not so much behavior modification, but knowing were our intrests lie.

reply to post by lonegurkha


I labeled it behaviour modification because of the "cause-effect" that applies whenever something is said that islamic extremists find objectionable.

We (the west) says/does something; the extremists react. We then respond to THEIR actions.

Either with apologies or disavowing whatever action took place.

I'm just afraid that there is a groundswell based on the events taking place that will result in laws dictating what we can say or do.

reply to post by beezzer


Ok Bezzer I'm with ya on that. I just think that we are serving our own interests. Even though that behavior is somewhat out of character for our Government.

reply to post by beezzer


sorry dbl post.

Originally posted by Ghost375
I take it you don't know much psychology.
you're understanding of Pavlovian response is completely wrong.
What do I know, it's not like I have a degree in psychology or anything.....oh wait, I do.


"We are, in a sense, following Sharia Law out of fear of riots and anger."
This is an extremely asinine comment. some might say delusional.

you assume people are cowering in fear of the possibility they upset a Muslim. This isn't true at all.

Sorry, but when people upset other people, they apologize. This is the normal thing to do.
You have freedom of speech. But people will naturally respond negatively if you say certain things. Call a black person the 'n-word' see what happens. It's called decency. If you want to be an asshat, and go around saying extremely negative things, so be it. But just remember people will respond negatively, and many times with violence.

You drawing the conclusion that the elimination of free speech is just around the corner, based off of natural human responses, is absurd.

Don't worry, Americans will keep saying moronic insulting things for as long as this country is around.

Very well put and deserving of much more than the one star I'm allowed to award to this post.

Either with apologies or disavowing whatever action took place.

But what Hilary said wasn't an apology. I really don't see how one can construe it as an apology.

And nobody else, at least from the Administration have apologized.

But here's my apology:

I'm sorry we had to defend ourselves against an unwarranted attack. I'm sorry that your crew was stupid enough to fire on a station filled with a quarter million civilians, including your own people. And I'm sorry I waited as long as I did before I blew them all straight to Hell!... As with everything else, it's the thought that counts.

reply to post by AfterInfinity



Pulitzer Prize section, lol. I love when people on here have a good sense of humor, its nice to smile now and then.

P.S. Afterinfinity I love your avatar and signature, huge DBZ fan here.

as for the Original Post, I believe all these insults and attacks on the prophet mohammed are basically a precursor to war against the middle east collectively. You may be right, this may be leading to the destruction of more our liberties, but how many more are left anyway?

Like I said though, I really think a big war is comming, something about all these stories about the embassies and consulates being attacked, egypt, libya, etc. something is fishy about this media coverage. I just can't put my finger on it.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by davidsander


War in the ME? Against who? An extremist ideology? This is what got George Bush into trouble in the first place. We started fighting the war(s) wrong.

I hope we can learn.

reply to post by beezzer


I think its going to be the Middle East fighting us, in general, and then anyone else I.E. russia, china who wants to jump on the bandwagon against us, I am probably wrong, but who knows?

For some reason it doesnt seem to be working on me


Was wondering why everyone was treating me like I havent become a Pod Person everywhere I go.

Geez...

Maybe we would find that the Muslims would have a little better sense of humor about things if we didn't just spend the last decade killing a half million civilians.

Likewise, perhaps the Libyans wouldn't have been so quick to grab the rocket launcher if PRIOR TO BE NAMED AMBASSADOR OF LIBYA, Chris Stevens didn't illegally enter the country to help a group of armed rebels topple Africa's most stable and prosperous government by fomenting a civil war which killed 50,000 Libyan civilians.

Do you remember in 2001 how the whole country completely lost it's marbles and started willfully supporting the erosion of our civil rights when we lost a scant 3,500 civilians on 9-11? I remember lots of stories about uneducated rednecks started killing random Hindus, Buddhists, and Tseeks for absolutely no reason at all. At least Stevens had a role in killing 50,000 innocent people and wasn't just minding his own business running his gas station or something.

I'm curious...why do you think the Libyans would react more calmly than we did?

....or are you honestly naive enough to think that all this violence and rioting is REALLY about a movie clip and nothing more?

You're right. This is how Islam controls: thru fear.

Once the Islamic armies overran a country, how did they maintain control? It's simple, they outlawed free speech (it's against the law to criticize Muhammad & his Quran) and they made it clear that unless you converted to Islam you would be a 2nd citizen, and if you persisted in resistance, you would be killed.

Very simple and effective.

This is how they train those who oppose them. Annoy them and they will destroy your property, terrorize you, and if that doesn't work, they will kill you.

It's what Muhammad did, and he provides the role model for the Muslims.

Here's the video of that apology:

By the way, I did some checking. Here's what Factcheck.org has to say on the matter:

Mitt Romney claims the Obama administration issued an “apology for American values” after U.S. embassies were attacked. Not true. Romney refers to a statement issued before mobs attacked either in Egypt or Libya, and faults U.S. diplomats for failing to condemn actions that hadn’t yet happened. Furthermore, the word “sorry” or “apologize” doesn’t appear in the statement. Under the headline, “U.S. Embassy Condemns Religious Incitement,” the embassy in Cairo said, “Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy.” Romney has falsely accused Obama of “apologizing for America” many times before. The line has been a dependable applause-getter with conservative audiences. But we found no basis for this claim in Obama’s previous speeches and remarks. And other fact-checkers came to similar conclusions.

factcheck.org...

So the US has NOT apologized in any way. The people who are claiming so are just trying to make a political issue out of it.

They do not control us one bit. If they truly controlled the west they would be able to kick us completely out of their countries. We actually exercise more power over them than they do over us. We can bomb them, cripple their economy with embargo, and violate their Sovereignty by taking out their government.

While we do all that all they do is what?? Raid a embassies? try to blow up a few places?? Its is miniscule to what is done to them. When was the last time you looked on the news to hear about american collateral damage on our soil because terrorists were out to get a target and innocents were just in the way?? People over there deal with it on a daily basis.

We do have a behavior modification in america. The modification is that we are the only good guys that we are the victims. We are not able to see the consequences of our actions and when the consequences occur we feel as if we have been unjustly treated.

I really do not believe that the video solely sparked all this violence. I guess the west changing and undermining governments all throughout the region has nothing to do with it. All this video has done is modified our perception of that region by taking the focus off what the west has done into the region onto the scape goat ..Their religion. Just focus solely on that and none of the other stimulus.


I bet you if some other nation would bomb us, economically cripple us, and undermine our government we would just lose it if they insulted our nation/beliefs in a similar fashion as this video. Adding insult to injury.

Putting aside all we have done to warrant these reactions to the west, lets just focus on the whole video/speech part of it which is peddled as the only reason for the violence.

We have freedom of speech. We can say whatever we like. Lets do a little test here. Go to a biker bar and say some suggestive things to a bikers ol lady or slam on the club. You will get your butt kicked. Same thing applies here with those people who "allegedly" only went nutts when their religion was insulted.

Your mouth cannot go around writing checks you butt can't cash. heck just say something extremely flagrant to a friend and you will either lose a friend or he will deck you.

Even if you think that "religion" is stupid and has no merit that does not mean that everyone thinks the same as you. If they do not want you insult it is that too much to ask for considering all the bs we have done to them??


Show respect to others. With one of my friends I can say some pretty messed up things to him with another if I treat him the same he will whoop my butt. So i don't get to familiar with that guy. It is called people skills. The USA needs to Learn them.

Or they can just go beat the crap out of them which is what most likely will happen.


I think that many people when it comes to speech they think they can very easily say anything but not many people want to stand up for what they say. They just want to talk crap and not stand up for their point of view. If you are going to slam on someones beliefs be ready to own up to if the party reacts in a bad manner. If you cannot handle the consequences for your words or expression please stfu.

Now if you think about it... think of libya the USA was telling them to step down. Gaddafi said no.. gaddafi is now dead. His speech which was saying no got him killed. that sends a behavior modification to the world taht if you as a leader does not do as the USA says you die.

pot meet kettle.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


no offence to you, and this has nothing to do with the fact you just provided,

but im not sure I trust a website called factcheck.org

reply to post by beezzer


Well, yes agreed, and ill stand up and fight as soon as there are enough people that know the truth that it wont just be me and my dad down at westminster getting ushered out of the public eye by polis,

But we should all remember that A: all of this is likely just a show to justify infringing our rights even more
and B: Just the same way our governments do horrible and despicable things, as well as our religious extremists etc etc, we are still here, the good, normal, down to earth REAL people and we are not the same as them, and in the same way, we should feel for our brothers in muslim countries who are just honest hard working guys being subjected to all this, which frankly, doesnt hold the interests of ANY of the good hard working people on either side of the atlantic.


Funny that both Christ and Mohammed preached a message of unity, and now we have two sides saying 'our unity is better' 'no our unity is better' UNITY!!! HUH? LOOK UP THE DEFINITION YOU FALSE PROPHETS WHO CANNOT EVEN UNDERSTAND YOUR OWN SCRIPTURES!!!

reply to post by beezzer


Just because we apologize for fear of retaliation doesn't mean we will surrender ourselves to their beliefs. As in make laws that we can't talk about to do something about a stupid religion. We just apologize to calm them down because the government cannot control everyone, people do what they want and they will be the people blamed for it all (government).

I just don't get it, why do other people care what other people think? Some person says your fat, your religion is false, or your stupid. Who cares what they think, do they run your life? No. Some people, most of people just need to grow up and quit acting like children. Oh you insulted me NOW YOU MUST DIE. There insane and always will be.

They want to start a war over some stupid crap so be it. You guys can say its all planned out or whatever but if people seriously want to start a war or kill people because of some dude made a video that instults you...your pathetic and deserve everything you get.

Here is my belief.... LIFE > RELIGION Here is middle east Islam people RELIGION > LIFE. Not hard to tell which one is the insane one.

Originally posted by beezzer
*Mods, if you feel this belongs in a rant/trash/Pulitzer Prize section, then by all means. . . .

Recent events have brought to mind a disturbing ideation.

Someone burns a Koran and people riot, America apologises, things calm down.

Someone draws Mohammed, people riot, America apologises, things calm down.

Someone makes a video, people riot, America apologises, . . . . . . . .

It brings to mind a Pavlovian Response. People, free people, express themselves (by burning, drawing, filming) and islamic extremists riot and burn and kill, and America apologises.

When is the line going to be crossed? When is America going to be to afraid to express themselves for fear of retaliation?

When are the cowards in DC going to create laws to inhibit OUR freedoms for fear of others in another country?

It appears, at least to me, that islamic extremists are creating an environment where we are afraid to express ourselves.

We are, in a sense, following Sharia Law out of fear of riots and anger.

When are we going to stand up to this?

When are we going to say, "I won't be dictated to, like this!"?

When are we, as a nation, going to say, "Go to hell!" (C. Krauthammer)

I really fear for our nation when we spend more time formulating apologies than finding out who killed Americans.

Thank you for providing me the freedom and forum to express my opinion.

beez

Great question, but haven't people been asking this now for awhile? I agree with all that you say, its just kind of the same question thats been around and around.
We need to ask why do we let this administration get away with what they are doing first, not that administrations before them have not done the same thing, its just that these Obama people are so prolific and good at bowing and apologizing.
The line, for me at least, has already been crossed and i have already said this adminastration and the people they bow to can go to hell as I'm sure a lot of people have, its just the doing something about all of it that evades me right now................................other then voting which seems futile at best.

I like your threads, your one of the better "realist" on ATS.

Originally posted by Battleline its just that these Obama people are so prolific and good at bowing and apologizing.

I like your threads, your one of the better "realist" on ATS.

Obama had to do what was neccessary after 8 years old Bush Raping and Pillageing Foreign countries.
The people of the US may be asleep, but the world view of the US was at its lowest in many years.
Remember this Gem from Dubya, now try to imagine how other countries would take this.