The moons lack of rotation.

reply to post by TeslaandLyne


I'll give it a whirl mate.....

Did it all start with Laplace’s fluid dynamics theorem about the angular frequency of the earths rotation coupled with gravitation speed back in 1770ish? George Darwins Lunar theory didn't come into it until about a century later I believe.
Modern predictions on tidal ranges, according to the Hydrographic office, are based upon daily observations over a 12 month period for standard ports and adjusted with harmonic constants for secondary ports. (International tide tables)

According to this experiment I get a rotation of the moon?

1. Get 2 balls (oranges / basketballs etc etc).
2. Mark one of them with an "X" - (this mark will be that part of the moon we always see)
3. Place them at a distance of about 0.5m apart on a table.
4. Now, move the ball marked with the X around the stationary ball ENSURING that the X is always facing the stationary ball.

In order to keep the X facing the stationary ball you are rotating the ball marked with an X - that ball being your moon.

To me, this suggests that if it didn't rotate, we would eventually see all of the Moon as it orbited the Earth.

However, I'm genuinely keen to learn where I have erred here, if indeed this is not the case.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
Due to the off axis conjoined rotation of Earth and Moon we have the tides which
is due to rotational energy of Earth and nothing to do with gravity or energy from the moon.

So weak are you people.
ED; Yes lets have the origin of these tidal calculations.
These ATS people are up to it.
Ed+: interested in anything from these brainiacs cause spaghetti is not an answer
Ed++: as observational fact any one can see the Moon does not rotate being
locked to Earth's rotational energy or at least told the Moon's side never changes
should get the hint there is no Moon rotation.

edit on 9/8/2012 by TeslaandLyne because: (no reason given)

Where do you people come from!?

You say there is no Moon rotation? This is most obviously FALSE it's a FACT the Moon rotates. If it didn't, we would be able to see the opposite side of the moon. Get two tennis balls, and set them on a table, and orbit one around the other. It's pretty obvious the Moon rotates. If anyone thinks the Moon doesn't rotate, then they must be severely mentally challenged.

Then you say the tides are not affected by gravity from the Moon? Really? In all seriousness I'm not trying to offend you, but are you considered mentally challenged? I only ask because I won't bother arguing with you if your mentally challenged as there is no point. Again, it's a FACT that the Moon's gravity causes the changing of tides. While there are a few other factors that play a few very minor roles, the vast vast majority of the tidal change comes from the MOON! FACT, not some silly badly put together theory like your ideas, this is actual fact.

Originally posted by Sublimecraft
reply to post by TeslaandLyne

 

I'll give it a whirl mate.....

Did it all start with Laplace’s fluid dynamics theorem about the angular frequency of the earths rotation coupled with gravitation speed back in 1770ish? George Darwins Lunar theory didn't come into it until about a century later I believe.
Modern predictions on tidal ranges, according to the Hydrographic office, are based upon daily observations over a 12 month period for standard ports and adjusted with harmonic constants for secondary ports. (International tide tables)

According to this experiment I get a rotation of the moon?

1. Get 2 balls (oranges / basketballs etc etc).
2. Mark one of them with an "X" - (this mark will be that part of the moon we always see)
3. Place them at a distance of about 0.5m apart on a table.
4. Now, move the ball marked with the X around the stationary ball ENSURING that the X is always facing the stationary ball.

In order to keep the X facing the stationary ball you are rotating the ball marked with an X - that ball being your moon.

To me, this suggests that if it didn't rotate, we would eventually see all of the Moon as it orbited the Earth.

However, I'm genuinely keen to learn where I have erred here, if indeed this is not the case.

edit on 8-9-2012 by Sublimecraft because: (no reason given)

Excellent example! ... as always!

....doubt he/she will try it, but great example!


....like button for your other post, very good explanations (since we don't have a like button, I'll just say it here)

Originally posted by rickymouse
It's stuck, has been for a very long time. NASA tried crashing a rocket into it to try to get it started but that mission failed miserably. They went up there in the sixties to try to flip what looked like a lightswitch but that didn't work either. I think they found another thing that looks like a switch but the little rovers can't turn it. Maybe it's worn out, nobody greased or oiled the thing for a couple million years now, that's when the aliens came here and started a big colony.

Have they tried turning it off and on again?

Originally posted by john_bmth

Originally posted by rickymouse
It's stuck, has been for a very long time. NASA tried crashing a rocket into it to try to get it started but that mission failed miserably. They went up there in the sixties to try to flip what looked like a lightswitch but that didn't work either. I think they found another thing that looks like a switch but the little rovers can't turn it. Maybe it's worn out, nobody greased or oiled the thing for a couple million years now, that's when the aliens came here and started a big colony.

Have they tried turning it off and on again?

Oh my god!! Are you my company's IT guy??




EDIT:
[to add something relevant before the mods punish me] :

Here is a video that explains how the moon MUST rotate once per revolution, or else we would see all sides of the Moon (and we don't):

Sorry we see no Moon rotation so the Moon does not rotate.
Get your heads back from outer space.
Check out the published article on the energy of the Moon.
It has none not even enough to run a clock.
Or find a counter article.
I didn't read it or pretend to understand it or even attempt to teach any one.
You can read it for yourselves if you seem able and tell me if you are so interested.
Post any fool reason you like I doubt Newton was so confused.
Although he specked out roofing requirements in error until the insurance
companies ran some checks and tightened up the building code.
ED: There is no axis of rotation because it doesn't rotate but the article said
there were innumerable axis to chose from and all do not rotate.
Earth and Moon rotate about an axis 2,000 miles from Earth center and
shown by Newton at some point and thus tides are made.
Look it up its called a common axis or some such scientific term.
ED: Tidal charts are probably empirical to bad no quantum theory holds on them
then everyone would be able to make tidal computations.

Sorry we see no Moon rotation so the Moon does not rotate.

Give it up. Repeating it over and over may make it 'correct' in your head, but not for any one else.

www.google.com...

lets put it on the net

oh we see your video Synchronous Rotation of the Moon - YouTube
as number one hit and many more oh good God.

www.grantchronicles.com...

Lets try this one.

Astronomers observing the Moon noticed that it seems to be rotating on its axis in precise synchronization with its orbital speed, but their conclusion is so wrong. A close examination would reveal the Moon does not rotate at all and is void of spin. If the face of the Moon was like a tire and this tire turned one time to complete an orbit. Does not the surface of tire move as it revolves? You did say the Moon rotates about its axis, so how can the same point on a tire be seen if it rotates once about its axis from a reference point inside the orbit?

So we can't see the same side IF there is any rotation.
A free-ken non math or physics explanation.

Well too bad any brilliant explanation is here by proven a waste to time.
Looks like 1919 Tesla science can't be matched or in fact the analyses stands the
test of time and would logically call for the same analysis
Ed: I'd check the uber analysis cause that dumb tire analysis is to easy for confused minds.

Originally posted by roadgravel

Sorry we see no Moon rotation so the Moon does not rotate.

Give it up. Repeating it over and over may make it 'correct' in your head, but not for any one else.

Check below your dumb post.
Bingo.
Wise up your on ATS.

Can't you see that the moon has a face? It doesn't trust us and doesn't dare look away. Not scientific enough? I can try to spruce it up a bit with scientific words.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
Sorry we see no Moon rotation so the Moon does not rotate.
Get your heads back from outer space.
Check out the published article on the energy of the Moon.
It has none not even enough to run a clock.
Or find a counter article.
I didn't read it or pretend to understand it or even attempt to teach any one.
You can read it for yourselves if you seem able and tell me if you are so interested.
Post any fool reason you like I doubt Newton was so confused.
Although he specked out roofing requirements in error until the insurance
companies ran some checks and tightened up the building code.
ED: There is no axis of rotation because it doesn't rotate but the article said
there were innumerable axis to chose from and all do not rotate.
Earth and Moon rotate about an axis 2,000 miles from Earth center and
shown by Newton at some point and thus tides are made.
Look it up its called a common axis or some such scientific term.
ED: Tidal charts are probably empirical to bad no quantum theory holds on them
then everyone would be able to make tidal computations.

edit on 9/8/2012 by TeslaandLyne because: (no reason given)

LOL you must think that the Sun orbits the Earth still too huh? Or that the Universe revolves around the Earth? Because you say " we see no rotation therefore it doesn't rotate" That's because we see the Moon from the perspective of the Earth. The Earth isn't the center of the Universe. The moon rotates, and the fact that we CAN'T see it do so from the Earth proves this. If we DID see the Moon rotate, that would actually mean it's NOT rotating. How old are you, 12?

You evidently don't know the difference between a celestial body ORBITING and ROTATING

When two bodies are orbiting each other, for instance the Earth and the Moon, or the Earth and the Sun, the smaller object doesn't PERFECTLY orbit the larger one.

There is a point between the two that they both orbit. Meaning, the Moon doesn't really orbit the Earth, the Earth and the Moon both Orbit the same point, that point just happens to be so incredibly close to the Earth's center point that for most intents and purposes the Moon simply orbits the Earth.

This is one of the ways scientists can detect planets orbiting far away stars. Because the planets don't orbit the star, the star and its planets orbit a certain point, so the star appears to wobble, as the star orbits that point. But again, that point is so close to the star it's easy to simply say the planets orbit the star.

It's just like a hammer thrower. As the person rotates around with the hammer orbiting around them, the person doesn't stay stationary and have the hammer orbit around them. The hammer AND the person both orbit around a certain point that is between the hammer and the person's center.

I believe this concept is what the articles you are reading are talking about, not that the Moon doesn't rotate, because the Moon does in FACT rotate.

There is no question, debate, or issue about this. It's observable fact. For the life of me I can't figure out why you keep arguing against this. That's like arguing against an Elephant being larger than a flea. It's fact. It's observable fact. It's logical fact. There is NO way around this. you are WRONG about the moon not rotating, because it DOES

As I said before, if the moon did not rotate, then we WOULD see the far side of the moon. We NEVER see the far side of the moon, because the Moon ROTATES at the same time as it orbits around the Earth. This causes us to never see the far side of the moon.

If the Moon did NOT rotate about its axis, then it would stay stationary, and as it orbits the Earth it would reveal more and more of the far side, half way through its orbit we would see the exact opposite side of the moon.

Since this NEVER happens, we know for a FACT the Moon rotates because of observation.

Since you can get two tennis balls, set them on a table, and test this your self, it's a FACT by testing.

Since if you simply use your mind, and work out the details in your head, you come to the realization that it does in FACT rotate, simply using logic.

You are making yourself appear incredibly foolish. You are wrong. Please accept this, and then try to figure out how you can avoid being wrong in the future.

The other guy in this thread, Assspeaker, at first thought wrongly just like you. Then after reading this thread,realized he was wrong. For some reason you are unable to see the truth, but I hope you will get there eventually.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne

Originally posted by roadgravel

Sorry we see no Moon rotation so the Moon does not rotate.

Give it up. Repeating it over and over may make it 'correct' in your head, but not for any one else.

Check below your dumb post.
Bingo.
Wise up your on ATS.

edit on 9/8/2012 by TeslaandLyne because: (no reason given)

Here is another video to help you out of your confusion (and I say you are confused because what we call a rotation is not the same thing YOU call a rotation).

Notice at the :21 mark of this video they show the moon rotating all by itself -- with no Earth. Then they take that rotating moon, and put it in orbit around the earth (while the Moon is still rotating).

That rotation doesn't stop when it is shown orbiting Earth -- they only add another motion to that rotation: the motion of the orbit. The rotation is still clearly seen, only the rotation now equals the amount of time it takes to make one orbit.

Here is the video:

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Good video!
And kudos to everyone else that is trying to get this through a very, very thick skull with the tesla guy/gal...

At least it's apparent to every other thinking person in existance even if there isn't any hope for that one in particular.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


You can say that again.
Still the Moon is locked by energy as any satellite except they swing together.
Only the Earth rotates on a north south pole.
And there is nothing synchronous about it.
Do the math not the imagination of science writers.
Standard made up science.
Ed: I'm not confused only you and fellow jokers wish so never say so again.
Ed: reality check.. the Moon does not rotate by itself get some aid from one of my
page links. that is fantasy made up for a video

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

Good video!
And kudos to everyone else that is trying to get this through a very, very thick skull with the tesla guy/gal...

At least it's apparent to every other thinking person in existance even if there isn't any hope for that one in particular.

I'd give you a chance to explain the rotation you are talking about but you must
lack the writers ability of the science writers and video makers.
I know what you fools call rotation and the Moon is locked as a satellite with Earth.
It is something else completely.
Check the post above yours, he says the Moon does not rotate.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

You can say that again.
Still the Moon is locked by energy as any satellite except they swing together.
Only the Earth rotates on a north south pole.
And there is nothing synchronous about it.
Do the math not the imagination of science writers.
Standard made up science.
Ed: I'm not confused only you and fellow jokers wish so never say so again.

edit on 9/9/2012 by TeslaandLyne because: (no reason given)

You may not be calling the tidal lock a rotation, but it is still a rotation. Astronomers and other space scientists call this a rotation, but I suppose you don't agree with astronomers and space scientists that a tidally locked orbit amounts to one rotation per orbit.


Do this mind experiment: Close your eyes and imagine the Earth-Moon system moving through space, with the various movements of both bodies. Now, make the earth disappear from that mental picture, and see only the moon moving through space...

...what you would see in your imagination would be the moon moving around in a circle, while at the same time rotating on its axis.


Here's another thought experiment (similar to above, just worded differently):
Imagine yourself parked in a spot 1000 km above the north pole of the Moon, with your eyes and body facing that lunar pole. Also, imagine that the top of your head is pointed toward a specific direction in space -- say toward Orion's Belt (which is basically on the "extended" ecliptic plane of the solar system).

Now, imagine that as the Moon orbits around the Earth, you orbit with the moon, always looking down at the top of the moon BUT always keeping the top of your head facing that coomon point in space -- Orion's Belt. The Moon would be the only object in your field of view, and the Moon would not move out of your field of view...

...What would you see? I'll tell you what you would see. You would see the moon rotating once every 27 (or so) days. Yes -- it is tidally locked to the earth, but in astronomy, that is still considered a rotation, whether you call that motion a rotation or not.



It seems you and I agree about the movement of the Moon. It's just that I call that movement a rotation, and you don't. Not to be rude, but it doesn't really matter what you (or even I) call that movement. Astronomical conventions call that movement a rotation; therefore it is a rotation.

If you want to change what they call that movement, then petition the International Astronomical Union (IAU -- or UAI in the official French).

Originally posted by youwillneverknow
Can anyone tell me why the moon doesnt rotate?

 

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edit on 5-9-2012 by Gemwolf because: (no reason given)

Check this out:
www.google.com...

See one of the Google summaries:

earth and moon together revolve about their common center of mass,

EARTH-MOON BARYCENTER


Still if you find a good book on Astrodynamics the system has a mass center and a
separate gravity center I found in one book. Center of Mass is on a straight line
between Earth and Moon.

The Barycenter is how the Moon moves with Earth.
www.google.com...

Hope that is what you were looking for.

reply to post by TeslaandLyne


TeslaandLyne --

I understand what you are saying about the barycenter of the Earth-Moon system. We are both describing the exact same motion of the Moon relative to a common point in space. HOWEVER, I call that motion a rotation and you don't. We aren't arguing over how the moon moves, but rather we are arguing over what to call that motion.

But it isn't just me who calls that motion (the motion both of us agree on) a rotation. Asronomers call that motion you are describing a rotation. The International Astronomical Union (IAU) also says the moon has a rotation. In fact, there are over 30 other moons in our solar system that are tidally locked to their planet, and many extra-solar planets that are tidally locked to their star. Those moons and planets ALSO always keep the same face toward their parent planet or star at all time (just like our Moon). The conventional way in astronomy to describe the motions of those moons, planets, and our moon is to say that the body rotates once per every revolution around its parent body.

You don't need to personally call it a rotation, but astronomers everywhere DO call it a rotation, because that's what the IAU calls it. Like I said before, if you don't like it that they call that motion a rotation, then take it up with them, but you are going to need a better argument than your are presenting here, because they already understand the motions of the Earth-Moon system as you describe it, and they still agree that the Moon rotates once per revolution.

You can call a duck an elephant if you want, but everyone else has decided to a waddling, quacking, flat-billed, web-footed water fowl a "duck", and if you say its NOT a duck, people may disagree with you.

reply to post by TeslaandLyne

I didn't want this to get lost in my post above, so I'll ask it here:

Did you try my thought experiment I mentioned a few posts ago -- where you imaging yourself floating high above the Moon's north pole looking down down at the pole, moving through space with the Moon, but keeping the top of your head pointed toward a common point in space the whole time, such as the constellation of Orion (see that post for the details).

How would the Moon seem to move, and what would you call that motion?



I think if you stopped looking at the Moon as as being "bound" to the Earth gravitationally, and think of the moon and it's current motions as being its own object in space, ignoring the Earth (but not ignoring how the moon moves), you would see the Moon's motion as having a rotation -- with a period of 27 days.

reply to post by TeslaandLyne

See one of the Google summaries...

You are a bit confused. You are posting about the revolution of the Moon, not its rotation. The Moon revolves about the Earth/Moon barycenter just as the Earth revolves around the Earth/Sun barycenter.

The Moon also rotates about its rotational axis just as the Earth rotates about its rotational axis.