New Testament Fairy Tales

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posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 12:49 AM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 



We are imperfect because we are GIFTED choice.


Is it really choice when "God" knows exactly what we'll do, and allows it? That's not our choice, that's his.

Assuming the story is true, I think "God" had more choice in this whole deal than any of us. Considering he can end it, fix it, change it, start it over, copy it, or abandon it at any time with no repercussions on his end whatsoever, I think he has a crapload more choice than we ever did.

And you still think it's fair?




posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 12:56 AM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by DeadSeraph
 



We are imperfect because we are GIFTED choice.


Is it really choice when "God" knows exactly what we'll do, and allows it? That's not our choice, that's his.

Assuming the story is true, I think "God" had more choice in this whole deal than any of us. Considering he can end it, fix it, change it, start it over, copy it, or abandon it at any time with no repercussions on his end whatsoever, I think he has a crapload more choice than we ever did.

And you still think it's fair?


I will put it to you this way:

I would rather my little girl love me because she wants to, than because she has to (as the latter is contrary to the nature of love).

To put the issue of predestination vs free will another way to you:

I used to struggle with this issue big time. Once I was sitting with my dad (whom I love dearly and who is brighter than I) in a pub sharing a pitcher of beer. I brought up that very dilemma, and he pulled a little note pad out of his pocket, and drew me a picture of many paths. Some with logs and obstacles at the start, some with obstacles later.

He likened his illustration to how our free will is within the bounds of omniscience. Essentially, God has "drawn" every possible path and obstacle you can take and over come. It's up to you which path you choose. But looking at it in that dimension, he knows where all outcomes lead. So no matter what you choose, He knows.

Now apply this with further dimensions, and His understanding and magnificence becomes even more apparent.

I hope this helps. It has certainly opened my mind.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 01:23 AM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 



I would rather my little girl love me because she wants to, than because she has to (as the latter is contrary to the nature of love).


And the threat of burning in hell for all of eternity doesn't say we HAVE to love/worship "God"?


He likened his illustration to how our free will is within the bounds of omniscience. Essentially, God has "drawn" every possible path and obstacle you can take and over come. It's up to you which path you choose. But looking at it in that dimension, he knows where all outcomes lead. So no matter what you choose, He knows.


I have been shown this example before, though not quite so illustrious. My response is this: since he is supposedly omniscient, he knows not only every path we could take, but exactly which path we WILL take. And so he knows, before our great-great-great grandparents were even thought of, which end we will come to. And because he is allegedly omnipotent as well, he can change that path with a thought. But he doesn't. Which means he WANTS us to come to that end. Heaven or hell, he wants us to go there.

Knowing what will happen, and refusing the change it, is the same as saying, "I want this to happen." Which means he chooses for us. Hence, no free will. The moment omniscience AND omnipotence both enter the equation, all free will is lost. To know everything and have the power to change it as well, yet NOT act, is the same as saying that you want things to happen that way.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 01:40 AM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by defcon5
 


But "God" knows everyone who will ever go to hell, if the Bible is perfectly accurate. And he still doesn't change anything. Which means he WANTS half of us to burn forever.

Furthermore, the king of hell, "Satan", was created by "God"...and you can bet that he knew exactly what he was doing when he made that happen. So he designed hell for us, designed a creation that would betray him and trick Adam and Eve and rule the fiery pits that would torment us for being exactly the way he created us...

Does this seem at all fair to you? From my perspective, we had the short end of the stick from the very beginning. And "God"s laughing at us all this time because we're too meek to call him on it.

See, the only part that doesn't make sense about the Bible and "God", is how we're still worshipping the jerk. It's no wonder we're all violent and barbaric...after all the time we spend selling our soul to a being whose existence is questionable, let alone its right to our souls, I'm not surprised that we no longer have the integrity to actually behave honorably.
edit on 6-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


I think you got it AI, fair. What is fair?
Are the scales set fair for Hell, vs Heaven.
The OPs complaint is working hard and doing good, only to be told you not good enough to ge to heaven, that seems unfair.

We are all wanting and needing things to be fair, peace. What drives that desire?

Their is an instinct of fairness, it can be observed in the social development of children, trust me I have 3. We also learn it through experience with family friends and religion.

If there is a need to be fair and a need for justice then there should be an author of perfect fairness, one who has total authority on what is fair.

If we haven't even scratched the surface of the vast nature of the universe, then what makes us think we have total authority to dictate fairness.

Why should I believe or have faith that your concept of fair and just have my best interest in mind?

Is it based on your experience, if so was your experiances handled in perfection and without fault. How would you go about explaining or teaching others that your experience or life exemplifies the perfect justice required to have authority on fairness?

All rhetorical just thinking out loud.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 01:44 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Well for one, money is the root of all evil so anyone who uses it feeds the "beast", or the whole financial structure of the world, the same one that the rich and powerful take advantage of to oppress the world and keep it in debt and servitude. Money is the mark of the beast and almost everyone willingly feeds the beast, though unknowingly because we were all born into the system without a choice.

The thing about people rising from the dead CAN be explained believe it or not. I have been "raised from the dead" myself, as have many people across the world. I believe being "raised from the dead" is a metaphor for people realizing that they have been reincarnated, or born again back into the universe. Those who accepted this fact were referred to as rising from the dead metaphorically.

Lots and lots of the bible was altered by the Romans to hide its message, but don't think that all of it is lies because it's not, much of it has truth in it, you just have to dig a little to find it.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by Observationalist
 



Why should I believe or have faith that your concept of fair and just have my best interest in mind?


Rhetorical, indeed. I'm just showing you other ways to think about it. A shift in perspective is a shift in truth.


Anyway, yes. Why should you believe me? Because I haven't written a book about it? Yet that seems to work for other people. Or for people claiming to be getting visions from "God".

Fair is having the same cards as the other guy. Fair is losing only because you didn't play those cards as well as the other guy did. Fair is having a chance from the beginning, and not being set up so if you do anything BUT what the "Master" wants you to do, you'll lose so egregiously, you pay for it...forever.

Life isn't fair, sure. But if you're going to say this "God" is loving and merciful and completely righteous, then don't even THINK about offering me an unfair deal. Because that's not what a loving person does. My friends love me. They're not going to offer me a meal on the condition that I beg for it, or loan me a few bucks if I call them master. They do it because they care for me. They do it because they like me, they love me, and they want to know I'll be okay.

When's the last time "God" did anything without asking for something in return, or making up for being a jerk?

Speculation, of course, but do you see my point?



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 01:53 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 

Oh, that's still rich. Christ didn't fail to mention them because he was being ignorant of the work that the animals put in. This says don't worry, not don't work. Those things are and can be separated.

And talk about out of context, with that one:



25 "For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 "Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?
Nope, birds don't sow, reap (harvest all at once), nor gather food into barns. They go and work for their food every day. And they have these migratory patterns that are a pretty neat gift, so that they shouldn't have to.


27 "And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life?
Just had a buddy that was told by his doctor, this past year, whom the doctor told him that his stress level (aka: worry) was going to send him to an early grave. Dude quit his job, what was providing for his future, because that future wasn't going to exist by the way he was providing for it.

28 "And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, 29 yet I say to you that not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these. 30 "But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you? You of little faith!
1. What is God clothing people with? Is it just covering for the body that's going to die? Considering what's following, I doubt this is just about clothing.
2. A lot of very beautiful things have a short lifespan. This includes humanity. Is your short life worth worrying about how beautiful your clothing is, or even the fact that you have another set for tomorrow?
3. You of little faith!=You who do not trust enough!

31 "Do not worry then, saying, `What will we eat?' or `What will we drink?' or `What will we wear for clothing?' 32 "For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 "But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. 34 "So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
1. Ah, the conclusion, which usually expands upon the opening. Orly? Look, Christ was in the habit of stating something, then giving examples, then adding further detailing for a fuller conclusion. Actually rather like how an essay is still written.
2. It's a call to put God first. (v. 33)
3. Oh, wait, 34? it wasn't about not working for today? lol. This, like the bird that doesn't lay up a store of food for tomorrow, and the pretty flower we will use to start a fire tomorrow, is talking about tomorrow. (The word so, there , in Greek actually means "therefore", so it's a conclusion to a thought.)

So: if I used the Bible in that hunt-n-peck a method, I'd have to throw it out the window for being tripe, too. I'd also be driven quite daft by not understanding the culture at that point either.

1. Chist was talking to:
a. Jews. Of the Biblical era, the Jews were both blessed and cursed. When they trusted in God, they were blessed, and when they weren't, they were cursed. Joshua has the text on the blessing/curse, while judges shows how both played out, following that.
b. A lot of poor folk who earned just enough money to take care of daily needs, for each day they worked. When you are of a "caste" that will never get out of being poor, it's not a good idea to worry about tomorrow when you have both work and trouble today, to deal with.

As for the other verse, that requires supernatural things to happen. Supernatural things require a lot of study, and it's not something I'd expect people to automatically believe. Heck, I believe in them, and it's not automatic, with me!



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 01:59 AM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

First God didn't create sin. It simply exists because God exists. Anything that is not acceptable under the rules of God is sin. The same thing may apply to hell as well. Hell may not so much be an actual place, but simply a name we give for being outside the presence of God. There is not much description of hell in the bible, and even that word itself does not exist in it. Much of what people today believe about hell comes from middle age depictions of it that were used by the RCC to scare folks into following their rules.

You also seem to want to judge God by the rules of man; however, God is the creator, and mans rules do not apply to him. What might seem unfair to you, is perfectly fair to him.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 02:09 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
In another thread it was suggested that I read the New Testament. Admittedly, it's been years since I've done this, but I used to read it often. Like the religious today, I allowed my eyes to glaze over the utterly ridiculous parts. I don't do that anymore. For instance, the following are considered the wise words of Jesus:

"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes?

If this is such great advice why don't we all just quit our jobs. Let's teach our kids that when they grow up they have no need to save money for the future, no need to spend money on food and clothing. Yep, real super advice.
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And then there's this from the NT.

Matthew 27: The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus’ resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

Really? I mean, REALLY? And the mature religious adults with an IQ over 80 believe this happened? Come on now.
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Religion has been an ongoing conspiracy against the masses for thousands of years. Isn't it time to really look at what you're buying into?
edit on 9/4/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)


Hey there jiggerj! I think you are talking about me. I had been skipping this thread because the same ole same ole is always said, but something told me that I should take a look anyway.

And go figure. You made a thread about going and looking and reading.

Firstly, the wise words of Jesus Christ are amazing. Worrying about what you will eat and what you will wear is utter vanity.

Consider, if you will, society's idea of what life is.

Life is an accident, a happenstance. After a very long time, those with the capacity for reason finally came to be. We eventually became what people today call human beings. Then as time goes on and all of the events that we are taught that took place... and then we come to you. You are born, from two other people - not of yourself. Then those two people feed you and clothe you. If they were decent, you didn't face worry of whether you would be fed and clothed. After a short 15-20 years of your life, you end up being led into the world to essentially fend for yourself. So you spent the first 15-20 years of your life worrying about whether you will get your favorite food or your favorite clothes, unappreciative of the fact that you have food and clothes at all (this is society's trend for sure, maybe not specifically for you - the alternative being that you didn't worry so much about food and drink but instead worried about how long it would be before people took you seriously, you grew up to do cool things, you already lamented about the fact you would eventually have to grow up - whatever your circumstance is, you had worry anyway). Then after you are tossed into the world, you end up having to worry what your education will be. Then what will your career be? And will you get a job in that career? And how much money will you make? And will it be enough to buy a decent house? Will I get a girlfriend/boyfriend and possibly even get married? Will I be good enough? Am I getting fat? Are the foods I eat healthy enough? Or, I don't want to live this kind of life! I want to sit on the beach and have a nice drink and watch pretty girls walk by! Or I want to go to this university or that one to obtain the degree of my choice and make an impact and a change in this world! Or I want this and I want that! And eventually I will probably have a wife and kids - and I will have to feed and clothe those kids who will worry when their next treat is or what kind of fun they are going to have and eventually talk about what they want to be when they grow up and what school they will go to and you have to figure out if you agree with their decisions and if you will pay for their education or if you will let them learn the hard way, and you will die, and then they will do the same, and they will die, ad infinitum - for no apparent reason because no one can fight the explosion of the sun in 3 billion years, and humanity, according to science, will probably be wiped out much sooner anyway!

So...
You see; even with your "scientific" model of life, all things are vanity. And God said that all things are vanity. So, how right is He?

And then you attack the intelligence of people who believe in the resurrection of the saints who were raised with Jesus Christ.

I will say this much - it is not our intelligence that should be questioned. Your imagination is incredibly limited. Your scientific model states that everything essentially started from nothing. Is it then incredible that the dead will live again?



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 02:30 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
And then there's this from the NT.

Matthew 27: The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus’ resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

Really? I mean, REALLY? And the mature religious adults with an IQ over 80 believe this happened? Come on now.

Zombies, dude. Believe it!




posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 03:05 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 





Lots and lots of the bible was altered by the Romans to hide its message, but don't think that all of it is lies because it's not, much of it has truth in it, you just have to dig a little to find it.



Found this in my research regarding the Romans and Paul. Thought it might applie to help see how the advise in the bible coroberates with what Jesus says and when investigated can shed some light on a concept that I would think most of us agree with, regarding materialism and greed.
Perhapse provide a resource for those wondering where to start.

l1 Timothy 6 - IVP New Testament Commentaries

Paul tells us that the Christian's goal with respect to material things is godliness with contentment. Godliness in Paul's vocabulary means the genuine Christian life, a faith-relationship with God and a new way of life. Contentment is a Pauline word in the New Testament (2 Cor 9:8; compare Phil 4:11). It had a prominent place in Stoic philosophy, where it defined an attitude of "self-sufficiency," meaning detachment or independence from things or possessions. Contentment came from within. Paul approved of this idea but naturally supplied a Christian basis for it: "I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. . . . I can do everything through him who gives me strength" (Phil 4:11, 13). Thus for Paul the Christian goal is a genuine relationship with God, our source of contentment, and a healthy detachment from material things. This combination is great gain. In contrast to 6:5, gain here is measured according to spiritual rather than material value. Eternal benefits are surely promised, but the focus is on how the believer with this healthy perspective can avoid the many pitfalls of greed in the present life.The Eternal Perspective (6:7)


Later on in verse 6:10 we the famous and over used and miss quoted biblical quote " For the LOVE of money is the root of all evil."

I would encourage those who are truly looking for help in understanding the bible, and particularly if you value the resting place of your soul to visit the above link and acctually read the comentaries, they help get perspective.

You won't get real answers here. You will only get the answers your looking for.

edit on 6-9-2012 by Observationalist because: (no reason given)
edit on 6-9-2012 by Observationalist because: Fix link



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 03:16 AM
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Jesus says come unto me me, all who labor and are heavy burdened , and you will find rest for your soul, learn of me, for I AM meek gentle lowly of heart, take my yoke upon you, for my burden is light, my yoke is easy.


many people are weighed down my lifes burdens , anxious , heavy laden.

cast your cares on him because he cares for you.

Jesus addresses this again in the parallel of the sower, who was good ground, soil, and could and would bear fruit in their lives,

and the reasons most people lives produce little or no fruit.

the cares of this life, could choke, over whelm people.

like peter walking on water, when he looked to Jesus, he walked on water, when he looked at the waves around he started to sink.

and again Jesus tells us why its good to live one day at a time, each day presents its own problems, let tomorrow take care of it self,

though Jesus is also clear, to watch and pray, be alert, see the signs of the times, prepare, spirituality, naturally

As for Jesus and others rising from the dead, i have no problem with this,

The power of death could not hold Jesus , the wages of sin is death. separation,

this is why its clear we must repent or we will perish, die in our sins, most in this life are in bondage to sin, a slave of their fleshly desires.

under satans power and domain, where many will remain,

never tasting freedom, the spirit, being raised in this life, dying to our fallen nature, flesh, the old man, and becoming a new creation , walking instead in the spirit, the new man, all things becoming new, experiencing the power and love of God.

we have to crucify the flesh, or the flesh will crucify the spirit.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 03:17 AM
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Originally posted by trekwebmaster
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Jigger, why the sour grapes?

Why go all that way and use time and hard work if you don't plan on acknowledging the answer?



What sour grapes? I'm enjoying the hell out of this discussion. As for acknowledging answers, if someone offered in-my-face, undeniable proof of a god (any god) I would accept the truth - whether I found this god despicable or not.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 03:24 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


I'd actually find a way to confront that god and spit in his/her/its face. Because I like having my say, and I feel rather strongly that I would be speaking for hundreds of people. How else to convey the disgust and contempt of 6,000,000,000+ abandoned souls?

It's a valid point that must be made.
edit on 6-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 04:56 AM
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Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
And there is really not that much difference fundamentally from the Catholics or the Lutherans. At least to me there is not.

There are HUGE differences between the Lutheran and Catholic faiths, and it would take days to go over them all. Just to list a few of the biggies off the top of my head.

1) Salvation through grace vs Salvation through faith and works.
2) Teaching in a loving God vs an angry God.
3) Belief in the Bible alone vs Belief in the Bible and Church Tradition (aka Roman Pagan tradition)
4) The use of intercessionaries, eg... Prayer to saints, Mary, etc.
5) Consubstantiation vs transubstantiation.
6) Purgatory.

These are but just a few of the bigger issues, there are thousands more...
As a matter of fact, in case you also missed it, Lutherans believe that the “little horn”, one of the Antichrists is found in the person of the Pontifex Maximus, or the Holy Pontiff. All by itself that should tell you that there is a MAJOR difference between these two faiths.


Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
They are both very ritualistic and don't allow you to ask questions.

I never had too much problem with asking any questions in the Lutheran Church, though sometimes I found that the people I was asking didn't have an answer and would fall back on the cliche that you have to have “faith”.


Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
Instead of Religion I've found that if I nurture my own personal relationship with God it is much better for me spiritually. But many people don't seem to know that they can do this. They feel that church is the only way to go because thats what they have been told their whole lives. If thats what works for you then good for you. It does'nt work for me however. My church is on the porch with my coffee in the mornings. I don't have to be judged, give money to anyone, confess my sins to anyone and God listens to me just as much as he does anyone else that seeks him.

As long as you realize that you are not gaining salvation through your own “works”, and that it still comes through Christ and the Holy Spirit, then I guess that there is nothing wrong with this. As a Christian though, you should want to have other Christian fellowship.


Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
And I do believe that I am ultimately in control of my Salvation. If I turn away from God, then I will suffer an existence without him. As long as i want to be with God however, he will never ever turn me away.

As long as you remember:

Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast.

Salvation does not come from you, it can only come from God...


Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
Thats another problem I have with the church in general. They say that God has a special place for all the sinners who do evil, full of fire and brimstone and suffering where he will send you for all eternity to burn in fire 7 times hotter than the hottest flame on earth........but he loves you......lol.

This is a product of the Roman Catholic Church through much of the Middle ages. Most of the imagery of hell comes from this, there is very little of it in the actual Bible itself. You might also enjoy reading the 'Apocalypse of Peter', which several of the Church fathers believed was divinely inspired.



Lutherans especially always love to point out how much different their denomination is than the other Christian denominations. I heard it all the time when i went to church. Fundamentally they are the same. There are some minor differences like what you posted above. But ultimately all christian faiths boil down to the same thing. You must believe that Jesus died for your sins. I just can't believe that. Sin I believe is a man-made concept. Jesus was a Godly man, but he was a man nonetheless. God is all I need.


I am not a christian anymore. Sorry, I don't believe in original sin, or that God judges me for the mistakes I've made in life. Even if I was a christian, why would I have to have fellowship with other christians? Thats something pastors say to try and keep you coming to church. I find it to be much better discussions with people that believe different than me. Not the brain-washed churchgoers.

And while you can ask questions in the church, it is generally frowned upon. "Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so." Believe this because you are told to. This is what God is, this is what he is not. This is what God means when he says this, this is what God hates and condemns. God is constantly portrayed as having all these humanistic traits and the God that I have come to know and love is not like that at all. He does'nt judge like that. Religion needs to go, plain and simple.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 05:45 AM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


I'm pretty sure that I've heard about hell many of the times I went to church. And there is actully many references to hell in the bible.
Matthew 3:12
"His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." (NKJV)

Matthew 13:41–42
The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will remove from his Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. And the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (NLT)

Matthew 13:50
... throwing the wicked into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (NLT)

Revelation 20:15
And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire. (NLT)

Proverbs 15:24
The way of life winds upward for the wise, that he may turn away from hell below.

Jude 23
Rescue others by snatching them from the flames of judgment. Show mercy to still others, but do so with great caution, hating the sins that contaminate their lives. (NLT)

Matthew 25:41
"Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, 'Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons.' " (NLT)

Revelation 19:20
And the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who did mighty miracles on behalf of the beast—miracles that deceived all who had accepted the mark of the beast and who worshiped his statue. Both the beast and his false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. (NLT)

Revelation 20:10
... and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (ESV)

Those are just a few, theres many more verses like this. Sorry but I just don't believe in a wrathful angry tempermental arsehole of a God like what much of the Bible portrays. Nor would I want to even serve a God like that. If God is love, then how can he possibly have so many negative traits about him like vengeance, jealousy, on and on. Like I said before, there is wisdom in the bible, but folks should stop taking the Bible so word for word.

It seems to me that Hell has become sort of the Elephant in the room with Religion nowadays. Just don't talk about it, focus on how God loves you and sent his son for you and ignore the things we don't like. After all, they gotta keep people coming to church and putting money in that collection plate and preaching about unpleasant things in the Bible might make them not want to come back.
edit on 6-9-2012 by Cancerwarrior because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 07:02 AM
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reply to post by Cancerwarrior
 




It seems to me that Hell has become sort of the Elephant in the room with Religion nowadays. Just don't talk about it, focus on how God loves you and sent his son for you and ignore the things we don't like. After all, they gotta keep people coming to church and putting money in that collection plate and preaching about unpleasant things in the Bible might make them not want to come back.

Since when doesn't gore and horror not sell?



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 07:05 AM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by MamaJ
 


But how can we find at-one-ment if we are constantly dividing ourselves from one another in an effort to make ourselves feel better about what we've done with the world?

We have to accept the past in order to embrace the present and change the future. Half of our race isn't willing to open its eyes yet, and the other half is busy convincing itself that its eyes are already open.

We have to stop lying to ourselves before we can do anything else.


So true, so true!

Some of us try really hard to not divide our self from another, know this!

We have a lot of people that need to awaken, true!

I believe in free will and not pushing my personal ideals on others. I've had it done to me for years and it doesn't feel good. So how do we do it?

How do you change millions of people's way of thinking?

The only way to pull this amount of people together is a disaster....



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 08:11 AM
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reply to post by MamaJ
 




How do you change millions of people's way of thinking? The only way to pull this amount of people together is a disaster....

...or create a religion


Christianity is the Sicarii movement of Judas the Galilean deliberately blurred and transformed. The Romans transformed the history of the cult of the militant Maccabean Messiah into the history
of Christianity.

At the end of the 66-73 C.E. war {Flavius} Josephus recorded that no matter how Titus tortured the
Sicarii, they refused to call him "Lord." To circumvent the Jews' religious stubbornness, the Flavians therefore created a religion that worshiped Caesar without its followers knowing it.

Billions have been fooled.



posted on Sep, 6 2012 @ 08:29 AM
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Originally posted by ALightBreeze
reply to post by MamaJ
 




How do you change millions of people's way of thinking? The only way to pull this amount of people together is a disaster....

...or create a religion


Christianity is the Sicarii movement of Judas the Galilean deliberately blurred and transformed. The Romans transformed the history of the cult of the militant Maccabean Messiah into the history
of Christianity.

At the end of the 66-73 C.E. war {Flavius} Josephus recorded that no matter how Titus tortured the
Sicarii, they refused to call him "Lord." To circumvent the Jews' religious stubbornness, the Flavians therefore created a religion that worshiped Caesar without its followers knowing it.

Billions have been fooled.



Some have been fooled, while others know history and go back waaaay before the Roman Empire and the transformation of Christianity. Thing is, there is truth in all expressions just as there is light. All we have to do is seek it to find it.





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