Israel angered over IAEA vote on nuclear arsenal

reply to post by intrepid


India, Pakistan and North Korea are not signatory to the NPT, yet they participate in the annual meeting.
India for instance is on the board of governors.

So again, why do exclude Israel ?

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by phatpackage
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

Yeah yeah whatever. For starters PressTV as a reliable and credible source? You must be joking! PressTV has less (way less) credibility than the BBC, Fox and CNN. Yeah, and that's not saying much and nothing to be proud of. If you like PressTV you support terrorism ..... fact.

Who cares! This will all blow over and business will be back to normal soon. Just because the little Terrorist runt in Iran stamps his foot? Aw Jeez! He's just not that important a person.

To all the left wing terrorist sympathisers get over yourselves.

The facts are:

1) Iran is a terrorist nation who are striving to build a nuclear weapon to destroy Israel & their allies.

2) Israel is allowed to have Nukes and Iran are not, simple. Iran cannot be trusted.

And all the left wing bitching, moaning, protest, forum and blog writing gets you no where. The people "running the show" just don't care about you or your opinion and will defend the more responsible nation of Israel's right to have nukes and stop the terrorist nation of Iran having them. Drive them into the ground and turn them into glass if required.

These are facts of life

What on earth makes you think the terrorist nation of Israel can be trusted? And prove Iran is trying to build nukes. And who said Israel has the right to possess nukes especially with their terrorist threat to use them against everyone with the Samson option. Rouge nuclear states like Israel should be stripped of their weapons even if we have to turn Israel into a parking lot doing it.

Your so right about Israel being a terrorist state, I t should be stripped of all WMD's and forced to relocate it self.
As for Iran , they are no better and should not be allowed to have nukes either.

I say Russia and the US should get together and Invade both of the buggers.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Thank you for answering my question.

reply to post by phatpackage


In my opinion, posts like these have no credibility. They are stock talking points and show zero knowledge of context, no understanding of history or culture. Not all opinions are equal; some have more value than others. On this issue I proclaim my opinion more qualified than most here because I've a firm grip on history and I worked within the Israeli culture for a decade, taking many trips there. I also routinely dealt with many people who are on first name basis even with Bebe and others in the power structure.

I met him briefly myself (very briefly, after he spoke to a closed small group in my old company). Israel is a small place with less than 7 million people. Everyone in power knows everyone else; they all went to the same one of two major universities, they all served together in the IDF, etc. They've created an amazing entrepreneurial culture that rivals the Silicon Valley. The people are extraordinarily courageous and universally bold. But they have one massive chip on their shoulder -- for good reason, sure, but there nonetheless.

I was embedded in Zionism for YEARS and can find you plenty of average Israelis who rail against Zionism too. They also do NOT like the American fundies and evangelicals, who they think are existentially dangerous to them because they treat Israeli lives as pawns in their apocalyptic fantasies.

Had the Israeli government been secular (like its population actually, who are FAR less religious than Americans as a whole), that region would be very different.

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Thank you for answering my question.

You're welcome.

Personally speaking I would have severe issues if the meetings at the IAEA were closed to non members. It would be, imo, counter productive.

I never said anything about Israel relocating. If they don't hand their nukes over then turn it into a parking lot. This is what Israel wants to do to Iran and they don't even have nukes. There isn't even any evidence of Iran building nukes. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Thank you for answering my question.

You're welcome.

Personally speaking I would have severe issues if the meetings at the IAEA were closed to non members. It would be, imo, counter productive.

Why would it be counter productive? They had their chance to sign the NPT and chose not to do so. So they shouldn't be there much less have any say in anything.

Originally posted by gravitational
reply to post by intrepid

 

India, Pakistan and North Korea are not signatory to the NPT, yet they participate in the annual meeting.
India for instance is on the board of governors.

So again, why do exclude Israel ?

After a little research it seems like all those countries are members of the IAEA:

1957 Afghanistan, Albania, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belarus, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, Cuba, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Egypt, El Salvador, Ethiopia, France, Germany, Greece, Guatemala, Haiti, Holy See, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Israel, Italy, Japan, Republic of Korea, Monaco, Morocco, Myanmar, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Pakistan, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russian Federation, Socialist Federal Rep. of Yugoslavia, South Africa, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sweden, Switzerland, Thailand, Tunisia, Turkey, Ukraine, United Kingdom, United States, Venezuela, Vietnam

With NK pulling out in '94:

The Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK), which joined the IAEA in 1974, withdrew its membership of the Agency 13 June 1994.

www.iaea.org...

It's the NPT that they are not a part of.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Thank you for providing the additional links. It will allow members who participate in this thread to view the different angles the media puts on these types of issues.

There is one portion of the external content that you posted that I must make a point about. This commentary is not directed towards you as you only provided the content and it's not you who said the following statement so please don't take this as an attack towards you.

Beyond his warning on Iran, Ehud Azoulay, Israel's chief IAEA delegate, questions whether Arab nations have the moral right to point fingers. He says some have "a long, unflattering history of violating their international obligations and other norms of the international community" -- an apparent poke at Syria, itself suspected of hiding a nuclear program and the target of international condemnation for atrocities attributed to government troops fighting insurgents.

How on earth would Israel find the audacity to criticize Syria's nuclear program? A few years ago Israel illegally attacked a Syrian site under construction due to Israel claiming it was a nuclear facility. There was no proof of this facility being anything remotely close to nuclear. That being said, would that give Syria the right to bomb Israeli nuclear facilities?

The Dimona facility is the main threat to the Middle East and in my opinion should be taken out of commission, not but by attack, but by international efforts. This facility needs to at least subject itself to inspections if Israel would like for the rest of the world to take their lying rants seriously.

Originally posted by buster2010
Why would it be counter productive? They had their chance to sign the NPT and chose not to do so. So they shouldn't be there much less have any say in anything.

Nations can join and leave as they see fit so the chance to join is still present. My point though is when you are an entity and your goal is to have members join that entity (IAEA) it would be a good idea to allow non members in so they can observe the processes, voting, how votes are done etc etc etc.

It would be like buying a house on the other side of the country sightunseen. People like to see / explore prior to final purchase to see if it will work for what they need.

Originally posted by phatpackage
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

Yeah yeah whatever. For starters PressTV as a reliable and credible source? You must be joking! PressTV has less (way less) credibility than the BBC, Fox and CNN. Yeah, and that's not saying much and nothing to be proud of. If you like PressTV you support terrorism ..... fact.

Who cares! This will all blow over and business will be back to normal soon. Just because the little Terrorist runt in Iran stamps his foot? Aw Jeez! He's just not that important a person.

To all the left wing terrorist sympathisers get over yourselves.

The facts are:

1) Iran is a terrorist nation who are striving to build a nuclear weapon to destroy Israel & their allies.

2) Israel is allowed to have Nukes and Iran are not, simple. Iran cannot be trusted.

And all the left wing bitching, moaning, protest, forum and blog writing gets you no where. The people "running the show" just don't care about you or your opinion and will defend the more responsible nation of Israel's right to have nukes and stop the terrorist nation of Iran having them. Drive them into the ground and turn them into glass if required.

These are facts of life

Aha! I knew Bill oreilly was on here!

Originally posted by phatpackage
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

Yeah yeah whatever. For starters PressTV as a reliable and credible source? You must be joking! PressTV has less (way less) credibility than the BBC, Fox and CNN. Yeah, and that's not saying much and nothing to be proud of. If you like PressTV you support terrorism ..... fact.

Who cares! This will all blow over and business will be back to normal soon. Just because the little Terrorist runt in Iran stamps his foot? Aw Jeez! He's just not that important a person.

To all the left wing terrorist sympathisers get over yourselves.

The facts are:

1) Iran is a terrorist nation who are striving to build a nuclear weapon to destroy Israel & their allies.

2) Israel is allowed to have Nukes and Iran are not, simple. Iran cannot be trusted.

And all the left wing bitching, moaning, protest, forum and blog writing gets you no where. The people "running the show" just don't care about you or your opinion and will defend the more responsible nation of Israel's right to have nukes and stop the terrorist nation of Iran having them. Drive them into the ground and turn them into glass if required.

These are facts of life

Those may be your facts of life.

Threatening a nation with death and destruction makes them the responsible ones right?

This has nothing to do with political views. Its more of a problem with common human decency which Israeli leaders are severely lacking. If they are God's chosen people, I wouldhave rather take my chances with the devil.

Keep spouting off about Iran needing to be destroyed, it really shows how far we have come. I think its time to get with the times and show the world not everyone are still cavemen with big sticks.

Originally posted by phatpackage
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

Yeah yeah whatever. For starters PressTV as a reliable and credible source? You must be joking! PressTV has less (way less) credibility than the BBC, Fox and CNN. Yeah, and that's not saying much and nothing to be proud of. If you like PressTV you support terrorism ..... fact.

Who cares! This will all blow over and business will be back to normal soon. Just because the little Terrorist runt in Iran stamps his foot? Aw Jeez! He's just not that important a person.

To all the left wing terrorist sympathisers get over yourselves.

The facts are:

1) Iran is a terrorist nation who are striving to build a nuclear weapon to destroy Israel & their allies.

2) Israel is allowed to have Nukes and Iran are not, simple. Iran cannot be trusted.

And all the left wing bitching, moaning, protest, forum and blog writing gets you no where. The people "running the show" just don't care about you or your opinion and will defend the more responsible nation of Israel's right to have nukes and stop the terrorist nation of Iran having them. Drive them into the ground and turn them into glass if required.

These are facts of life

I really hate responding to posts like these because they usually turn into back and forth arguments. I will not allow that to happen since this will be my only response to you in this thread until you learn some respect. I felt the obligation to clear a few things up.

Please be aware that I am aware of Press TV being a state sponsored and controlled outlet out of Iran and that they have their agenda just like every other news agency. The messed up thing is that day in day out I see more truth coming out of Press TV than all other networks combined. Therefore I also must admit that I have seen obvious propaganda come out of Press TV as well. Our duty as a human is to our best to filter out the BS and try to fit the puzzle together.

The fact that you think I support Press TV, or terrorism proves that you are incapable of rational thought. All these outlets are crooked as can be, but the most lies come out of the Western media, ever since I was a child I could tell it was all BS.

You spout your propaganda like a hypocrite and not an ounce to back it up. Your only retort for all the garbage you spewed was "These are facts of life ".

Let's try and stick to the topic and keep the discussion level mature and civil.

reply to post by phatpackage

Yeah yeah whatever. For starters PressTV as a reliable and credible source?

As credible as any other "media" outlets...just depends on your point of view.

If you like PressTV you support terrorism ..... fact.

Ah! Now I see your point of view.

The facts are:

1) Iran is a terrorist nation who are striving to build a nuclear weapon to destroy Israel & their allies.

Please provide proof or let people know that your "facts" are in fact, your opinion.

2) Israel is allowed to have Nukes and Iran are not, simple. Iran cannot be trusted.

Ok, I'll give you that Iran is not being transparent about it's intentions, but to imply that Israel can be trusted is ludicrous.

And all the left wing bitching, moaning, protest, forum and blog writing gets you no where. The people "running the show" just don't care about you or your opinion and will defend the more responsible nation of Israel's right to have nukes and stop the terrorist nation of Iran having them. Drive them into the ground and turn them into glass if required.

...and that, ladies and gentlemen, is part of what is wrong with this world. Do nothing, because "they" will protect us.

Originally posted by intrepid
I have a question. Why does Israel have a delegate at the IAEA when they are not a member and are not bound to it?

probably to troll and derail IAEA meetings

just like they're doing now

they should be banned IMO

reply to post by Xcathdra


Even though Israel is a member of the IAEA, they should have signed the NPT as well, before calling people out on not following it.
This pretty much sums up the way Israel has the US by the balls.

I felt I should post some information since it's relevant to the discussion, even though many of you are probably familiar with this information a brief summary will suffice.

We all know about Mordechai Vanunu, if not here is a bit of info on him.

Mordechai Vanunu (Hebrew: מרדכי ואנונו‎; born 14 October 1954) is a former Israeli nuclear technician who, citing his opposition to weapons of mass destruction, revealed details of Israel's nuclear weapons program to the British press in 1986.[2][3] He was subsequently lured to Italy by a Mossad agent, where he was drugged and abducted by Israeli intelligence agents.[2] He was transported to Israel and ultimately convicted in a trial that was held behind closed doors.[2]

Vanunu spent 18 years in prison, including more than 11 in solitary confinement. Released from prison in 2004, he became subject to a broad array of restrictions on his speech and movement. Since then he has been arrested several times for violations of those restrictions, including giving various interviews to foreign journalists and attempting to leave Israel. He says he suffered "cruel and barbaric treatment" at the hands of Israeli authorities while imprisoned, and suggests that his treatment would have been different if he were Jewish (Vanunu is a Christian convert from Judaism).[4]

In 2007, Vanunu was sentenced to six months in prison for violating terms of his parole. The sentence was considered unusual even by the prosecution who expected a suspended sentence. In response, Amnesty International issued a press release on 2 July 2007, stating that "The organisation considers Mordechai Vanunu to be a prisoner of conscience and calls for his immediate and unconditional release."[5] In May 2010, Vanunu was arrested and sentenced to three months in jail on suspicion that he met foreigners in violation of conditions of his 2004 release from jail.

Vanunu has been characterized internationally as a whistleblower[6][7] and by Israel as a traitor.[8][9][10][11] Daniel Ellsberg has referred to him as "the preeminent hero of the nuclear era".[12] In 2010, the British artist Richard Hamilton completed a painting based on the famous press photograph of Vanunu in transit after his abduction, with the information concerning his capture in Rome scrawled on his hand for the press outside.

en.wikipedia.org...

It's not like we needed Mordechai to tell us about Israeli nukes, even JFK spoke out against it.

So we have a nation with a mass nuclear arsenal which is never officially admitted but often used as a veiled threat and let us not forget the slips of the tongue from various Israeli and American politicians acknowledging an Israeli nuclear arsenal.

Now that this is established let's fast forward to September 6, 2007, in Syria.

Operation Orchard[2][3] was an Israeli airstrike on a nuclear reactor[4] in the Deir ez-Zor region[5] of Syria carried out just after midnight (local time) on September 6, 2007. The White House and Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) later confirmed that American intelligence had also indicated the site was a nuclear facility with a military purpose, though Syria denies this.[6][7] An International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) investigation reported evidence of uranium and graphite and concluded that the site bore features resembling an undeclared nuclear reactor. IAEA was initially unable to confirm or deny the nature of the site because, according to IAEA, Syria failed to provide necessary cooperation with the IAEA investigation[8][9] Syria has disputed these claims.[10] In April 2011, the IAEA officially confirmed that the site was a nuclear reactor.[4]

According to news reports, the raid was carried out by Israeli Air Force (IAF) 69 Squadron F-15Is,[11] F-16Is, and an ELINT aircraft; as many as eight aircraft participated and at least four of these crossed into Syrian airspace.[12] The fighters were equipped with AGM-65 Maverick missiles, 500 lb bombs, and external fuel tanks.[2][13] One report stated that a team of elite Israeli Shaldag special-forces commandos arrived at the site the day before so that they could highlight the target with laser beams,[11] while a later report identified Sayeret Matkal special-forces commandos as involved.[14]

en.wikipedia.org...

Even the official reports only hint at evidence and cannot come close to providing any concrete proof that this was a nuclear facility, yet Israel takes the liberty (no pun intended) to bomb this "reactor" with nothing more than fabricated details to justify this act of war.

The Israeli government is and always has been a rabid dog that cannot be trusted and constantly carries out deceitful actions while portraying themselves as the victim. Now, once again, the world community is asking for some transparency about their nuclear weapons program and they throw a hissy fit and point the finger back to the people without nukes and call them the bad guys instead.

Any one else see a pattern?

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
Thank you for providing the additional links. It will allow members who participate in this thread to view the different angles the media puts on these types of issues.

You're welcome...

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
There is one portion of the external content that you posted that I must make a point about. This commentary is not directed towards you as you only provided the content and it's not you who said the following statement so please don't take this as an attack towards you.

No worries - I do my best not to drag disagreements from other threads into a different thread. Just because we disagree on a lot of issues does not mean we wont ever agree on other topics.

Besides when we argue / debate it allows me, and others, to see the opposing point of view.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
How on earth would Israel find the audacity to criticize Syria's nuclear program? A few years ago Israel illegally attacked a Syrian site under construction due to Israel claiming it was a nuclear facility. There was no proof of this facility being anything remotely close to nuclear. That being said, would that give Syria the right to bomb Israeli nuclear facilities?

An interesting question... There are reports that the site was nuclear however they are not sure if it had military applications or if it was for civilian power generation. When the IAEA gained access to that site they did detect radiological evidence.

The one thing about that strike that bugs me, and why I think there might be truth to the accusations, is based on Syrias response. There was no retaliation, no confrontation, no UN meetings on the issue etc etc etc. IF Syria was in fact developing a nuclear program, and if they complained to loudly about the strike, its possible it would attract more attention, placing Syria under a microscope. The same holds for Israel and their possible nuclear programs (with some minor differences - treaty).

In this case, and if the facility was nuclear, then Syria violated the both NPT / IAEA treaties. Since they are signatories they cannot use their civilian program to develop military applications. It also is a violation to build new nuclear facilities (civilian use) without notifying and supplying information to the IAEA.

As for the Syrian bombing Israel question all I can say is this -
A nation has a right to exercise self defense and to take actions that are in the best interest for their respective populations. History gets to be the judge on whether the actions taken were the right ones or wrong ones.

Question for you -
Whay didn't Syria respond to Israel after the airstrike?

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
The Dimona facility is the main threat to the Middle East and in my opinion should be taken out of commission, not but by attack, but by international efforts. This facility needs to at least subject itself to inspections if Israel would like for the rest of the world to take their lying rants seriously.

The same can be said for Iran as well as Syria. Both countries, Syria and Iran, have blocked IAEA inspectors from going to certain sites.

The issue we keep coming back to though are the treaties. Syria and Iran have signed those treaties where as Israel has not. The US has been pushing Israel to declare their nuclear program and to sign the NPT - source

If Israel comes forward and declares they are a nuclear weapons state should Iran do the same thing?

ISRAEL WILL NEVER DISAPPEAR FOR ALL ETERNITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They really should think through how a arms reduction may occur, it might become arms relocation.....