Iran Bashing, Terrorism and Who Chose The Chosen People, Anyway?

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posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by Rabbi4Peace
 
My honest thoughts?

I thought Slayer was on the money. You don't need to be serious in order to make a serious point. These one-sided issues are anything but.

We need to take a look at how everyone everywhere is acting instead of finding a scapegoat.

Who's culpable?

Do you want the list alphabetically?




posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


I apologize if my post came off as attacking as this is not my intention. My frustration was towards those senior members who posted off topic,insignificant contributions while completely refusing to acknowledge the content in the OP.

All I asked for was for discussion and comments about the video, which you did provide so I thank you.

I have seen various members including some who are participating in this thread derail threads to the point where it becomes a back and forth punching match which leaves the moderators no choice but to close the thread. This tactic of theirs is well known and regrettably they are good at it too. I am trying to avoid this and make everyone focus on the topic at hand which is the video I have provided. I am open to all opinions, even if they are slightly off topic but completely off topic posts which have no significance to the OP will not receive a warm welcome.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Maybe both sides are to blame, the US has a part in it as well.
This is why I would stop arming the israel terrorists and funding them.
Allow them to fight on a level playing field.
If the israelis all of a sudden had to fight losing equal numbers, they may try to get along with the 2 state "idea".
But while the US pushes boatloads of cash and bombs to the terrorists, the fight will continue.
Chicago logic, "you send one of ours to the hospital, we pull an AH-64"!!!
Or maybe we could just arm the Palestinians with the same ordinance so this final confrontation can come about sooner.
Personally I like the idea of the US just staying out of others squabbles.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 03:07 PM
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LOL @ Judaism and Zionism are different.

Care to enunciate that claim with evidence
?? ohh, what was that?? You don't know enough about Judaism to defend that claim?? Yet that wont stop you from making it and defending it, will it??

Any student of Judaism who hears that I'm sure knows deep down how false that is. Isn't Judaism based on the Torah?? And isn't the Torah to be practiced in Eretz Yisrael - in the holy land? Didn't Moses experience incredible grief at being denied the right to experience living in Israel??

Judaism is all about that. The Talmud and Maimonides mention time and again that some laws or only applicable in Eretz Yisrael - because of their political nature. Judaism is a POLITICAL religion; it is a religion that concerns itself with society, with establishing a new way in a society apart from the corrupt cultures around it.

You may not like that - and the baffoon naturei kkarta who try to convince people otherwise - may not like it, but that is a fact of Judaism.

Now, myself, I am political conservative in the tradition of liberal democracy. I'm not for the state regulating everything. Nonetheless, I am a Zionist, I respect the aims of Zionism, and I find nothing wrong with the Jewish state having Judaism as its national religion. Of course, this has to be reconciled with some of the concerns and conditions of modernity, but that is besides the fundamental point: Judaism and Zionism are practically identical. They intersect at the center. Judaism, at its core, seeks to influence peoples ways of thinking, which means, influencing the policies of the state.

As for the rest of that mind numbing stupidity of conflating all things conspiratorial with zionism - that only proves that there is an agenda out there against the Jews which seeks to distort what Zionism actually is - which can be discovered if you simply cared to educate yourself - with all things negative, thereby accomplishing what Orwell called 'doublespeak' where one word - Zionism - with it's own definition - becomes replaced by another false definition, distorting the original word and carrying with it inimical consequences.

Zionism, which began as the right of the Jews to having a state of their own, has been turned into every imaginable evil. And not surprisingly, but painful nonetheless, most people believe it. Their concept of zionism is an absolute distortion blown out of proportion. The rothschilds - historically opposed to the Zionist initiative - are now reckoned by these same people as the founders of Zionism, as if Zionism were interested in world domination, and not a sliver of land in historical Palestine.
edit on 26-8-2012 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by Rabbi4Peace
 



It is the Jews who have been brainwashed with Zionism that have this superiority complex, proper Jews respect others as equals. There are plenty of Zionist influences Jews in Israel who consider themselves above everyone else. I will provide one of many examples.

Zionism means movement for Jewish national home. Nothing more.People like those extremist teens (and not teens) are certainly an issue, they are moving from cries to actions and start to attack Palestnians and Israeli Arabs ,but it is not due to Zionism or "chosen" issue. I am shamed that there are such Jewish people in Israel, but It is the same as any other right-wing extremists on the planet.Clearly a problem that needs to be dealt, but not by removal of Zionism or Judaism. By simple police actions and harsh sentences,as everywhere on the globe.


The author made many valid points such as the tactic of screaming anti-Semite when Zionism is criticized, this is unfair and uncalled for and a major part of the problem. The holocaust surely happened but the official story is full of holes and why should it be illegal to question it? You do know that it is illegal to doubt the holocaust in many "free countries" right?

Yes, Antisemitism card is played sometimes when Zionism is under attack. But again, sometimes (and not in a few cases) it is justifyable. For example - certain poster in this thread that attacks Zionism suggested to nuke major Israeli cities. I know perfectly well where he stands and what he means.


I'm not sure if I correctly understood the portion of your post where you mention expansion but you seem to believe that the author incorrectly explained this issue. There is no doubt that Israel is constantly expanding it's settlements even while various international organizations and countries speak out against it.

Yes , settlments are growing - but do not forget, after 1968 Israel controlled ALL of the territories in West Bank and Gaza. Now Gaza is free from Jews - despite Jews living there prior to 1948 - and is under Palestinain control,and majority of West Bank is under direct Palestinian control. Settlments grow, but land Israel controlls shrank.



As for opinion of Mossad, I completely disagree we and all know their motto and their intentions as an organization so you will not get much of a response from me on this concern.

Intentions and way of action of Mossad aside, the motto translation is wrong in any case. You can see it easily by using any Hebrew-English dictionary and a Bible. I know that this comes a shock, but it is true nevertheless. Not trying to protect any secret service, do not trust them, but do you know that Lavon affair with Israeli false flag in Egypt was not done by Mossad but by Aman,Israeli military intelligence? Pretty sure it will be a shock too, but true nevertheless.


The video made a good point on how Iran has not attacked any nations in recent memory, yet they are made to look like the aggressor when Israel is the obvious aggressor. You do not agree, but that does not change the fact that Israel has attacked various countries since it's formation and Iran has not.

Various countries attacked Israel and Israel attacked various countries. Iran did not attack anyone (directly) in more then century. This is true. However you have to agree that there is pretty agressive rhetorics between Israel and Iran right now, and it was not started by Israel as far as i know.


The author made many valid points such as the tactic of screaming anti-Semite when Zionism is criticized, this is unfair and uncalled for and a major part of the problem. The holocaust surely happened but the official story is full of holes and why should it be illegal to question it? You do know that it is illegal to doubt the holocaust in many "free countries" right?

Questioning official story is not a crime, it is constantly questioned and updated. Denying it is a crime. And while i understand that it is opressive - there is simple reason for that. Nobody denies that lots (millions) of Polish citiznes died and nobody denies that,unless those Polish citizens appear to be Jewish. Then official censuses are suddenly wrong and all data falsified. There are enough people who declare Holocaust commited by their spiritual brothers to be false and then suggest to nuke Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 03:49 PM
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sorry ,ran out of space


I was really happy with your post even though we had some disagreements until you decided to consider the video as anti-Semitism. This is a known trick that no one falls for anymore and shame on you for pulling that card. I would like to know what the author said hat was anti-Semitic.

"If it is anlawful for over 250 million Europeans to question details of Holocaust,it must mean that there are some thing that the Zionist do not want the un-chosen to know about"
What is that in your opinion? I see it this way: Author lies (details CAN be questioned) and then he says that Jews do not want non-Jewish people to know certain things about Holocaust.Like about Titanic, apparently.
Use of "Zionist" instead of "Jews" is the same pathetic trick Iranian leaders use when they say "Zionist regime" instead of Israel.


Please tell me one bad thing Iran has done against Israel or the Jewish people within the last few decades.

I have no problem with Iranians , i wish Iran to live long and prosper. However Iranians leaders and their speeches about Israel - worry me.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by Rabbi4Peace
 





As g146541 mentioned, they speak Farsi in Iran, not Arabic. They are completely different languages with some similarities but you should learn the facts of the situation before you post this type of propaganda.


Pardon Mr Rabbi, but The president of Iran used the words “death to Israel” in Arabic just as Hezbollah used the same words in Arabic (2nd video), and they both mean to say death to Israel, no matter how hard you try to sweep this fact under the rug, or shout PROPAGNDA all day long.
Just Google 'Al mawt li Israel' and see what you get, instead of trying to teach me the difference between Farsi and Arabic.

This is getting pathetic.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Big difference there Wrabbit.
Here are just a few examples of the IDF deflecting its guided missiles to avoid from hitting non-combatants during 'cast lead' operation.



There is a big difference between collateral damage when fighting against an enemy that uses its own people as shields and those that deliberately and intentionally target civilians. Or are you suggesting that Israel should just sit idly by and do nothing when its people are under constant attack?

Now, please show when and where “Palestinian” terrorists have tried to avoid civilian casualties. When was the last time you heard of a “Palestinian” terrorist being prosecuted for acts of terror against Israelis or Jewish people?
Sorry but yes, there is a good side and a bad side in this sad story.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:39 PM
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reply to post by ZeroKnowledge
 


No. We need to stop being so Islamaphobic. What Is political Islam? It doesn't exist. Iran is just being targeted like Iraq was by the "illuminati" and "NWO"..Israel is bad because they're committing genocide against the Palestinians......

These are the type of thoughts sane people are up against when we talk about the existential threat Iran poses to Israel.

Even General Dempsey - who is against attacking Iran - said "Israel sees the Iranian threat more seriously than the US sees it, because a nuclear Iran poses a threat to Israel's very existence."

He acknowledges the existential nature of the threat because to not notice it - to ignore the religious fundamentalism of Iran - IS INSANE. General Dempsey simply doesn't care that Israel could be blown to $hit, and that another 6 million Jews would be murdered.

You really shouldn't even be talking about politics if you seek to de-emphasize the religious fundamentalism of Iran's government. Were talking about a shi'ite regime, which, in the words of Caroline Glick "everyone agrees that in light of the Iranian regime's religious fanaticism and its millenarian belief that Armageddon will hearken the coming of the Shi'ite messiah, Iran cannot be trusted not to use nuclear weapons against Israel.".. Sensible. Rational. But it means diddly squat to the people who've had this propaganda - facilitated by morons like Alex Jones, Press TV, RT, the latter being Iranian and Russian News networks - rooted deep into their psyches. Now, whenever any information contradicts these firm beliefs of theirs, cognitive dissonance sets in.

I continue to fight it for the sake influencing some people to change their thinking, but I know first hand the power of cognitive dissonance: it feeds off the needs of the ego - ones sense of self worth - and such an impulse towards rejection of contrary information in the minds of the self ignorant is almost impossible to overcome. Hence, the efficacy of propaganda.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by gravitational
 





and do nothing when its people are under constant attack?


That is exactly what they are saying. They just don't say it because of how crass it sounds. But they leave no other logical conclusion when they criticize Israel's offensive operations in response to terror.

These people sicken me with their dishonesty.




Now, please show when and where “Palestinian” terrorists have tried to avoid civilian casualties.


They don't. They specifically target the most vulnerable: women and children. Even when Israel goes into Palestinian territories to take on terrorists, the terrorists deliberately - as a matter of strategy - shoot from heavily crowded areas. The result: IDF soldiers inadvertently kill civilians while defending themselves against the bullets coming from the crowds. This gives Hamas and the Palestinians a "political victory": what one diplomat called the "cruel calculus of numbers", where more dead on the Palestinian side automatically means they are in the right and Israel in the wrong. The question of how those deaths happen - that terrorists endanger civilians and civilians, in maniacal submission, endanger themselves, for the sake of "Allah", is not even addressed. Oh, And to point out that the majority of Gaza residents are die-hard Islamists who will sacrifice their lives for Islams war against the Jews (their national liberation is intimately tied in with Islamic theology), is only adding theological scaffolding to their lunacy. Making what seems to us, absolutely untenable, practicably feasible. This is why Islamism is so dangerous. Islamists - non-combatants and combatants alike - sacrifice their lives for what to them is a war against evil. To us, it's secular. To them, it's religious. This is why death is so meaningless to them. Islam mandates death for a greater purpose - Allah's purpose - which is the liberation of Muslim lands. And to many Islamist theologians, death for Allah, after the liberation of Islamic lands, will become required in their war against the corruption of western civilization.

This is why they're clandestinely moving in, becoming a bigger demographic in places like France, Netherlands, Germany, Spain, UK.... The funny thing is, 70 years, Europe was all aflame about the "jews" coming in and diluting the national demographic. Now, fast forward 70 years, and Muslims have become an even greater presence in Europe than the Jews ever were - in terms of numbers. But why so little opposition?? Because the insanity of moral relativism cannot address this fact. Nationalism is 'bad', therefore, it is bad to criticize the over presence of Muslims in traditionally christian lands.

It's as if these nuts were trying to enable Muslims to undermine their societies. Just as the Bush administration 'overlooked' the 9/11 attacks. People are wrong in assuming that it was a false flag, as if the west created Al Qaida and supplies them with ideological substance. They exist on their own. They planned it on their own. They were however allowed to commit this crime, because it benefited the befuddling interests of the western establishment.
edit on 26-8-2012 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
I love these, He said, She said, Who struck Paul lay the blame threads. The responses are all so enlightening and typical of why there will probably never be any solutions.

Yes, I'll play my part and jump and give my opinion as to who I think is to blame....



Personally, I believe you are 100% right.

Pointing fingers, always has three pointing right back at you though.................


I really try to avoid it, so I point all my digits, in one direction !!!



edit on 26-8-2012 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 09:56 PM
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reply to post by gravitational
 

Oh, I'm absolutely not suggesting Israel stand by and allow it;s citizens and towns to be shelled and rocketed. No nation in their right mind with any sense of self preservation could or would allow that to happen.

I also don't see a direct equivalency between collateral damage from the air strikes or the stated policy of civilian reprisal for PLO attacks (against their homes anyway) that was the official stance for years of the suicide bombing. However, you have to admit, to the Palestinians whose neighbor a few doors down happen to let Hamas scumbags into their home, the 500lb bomb that blows out part of the city block doesn't feel that much different than the Pizza Bomber.

To be very blunt, I'd like to see these nations grow something between their legs and start fighting the ENEMY...not firing off in the general direction of the enemy and figuring they got the target so splash damage is 'stuff happens'. They have Hamas killers they need to zap? Fine....take the risks, use the people and perhaps lose one or two,....but get ONLY the targets by sending IN a team to DO it. Not from an F-16 dropping ordinance in a reprisal strike at 600 MPH and far overhead.

Same with Usama and Saddam, in my opinion. Assassination, not a full blown war was logical. War was insane when nations were never even the problem...just a few men.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Rabbi4Peace
If you support this then you are pat of the problem, plain and simple.

If you support the claims of the video then you are part of the problem, plain and simple.

- Telling the truth about Iran and that it kills people around the world by sponsoring terrorism isn't 'being part of the problem'. Hezbollah ring a bell? Putting your head in the sand about Iran not being innocent is being 'part of the problem'.

- Telling the truth about both the Israelis and the Palestinians' - that neither is innocent - isn't 'being part of the problem'. Hamas ring a bell? Mass murdering Arafat stealing hundreds of millions of $$ in so-called 'donation money' ring a bell? Daily rocket attacks against Israeli civilians ring a bell? Putting your head in the sand about the fact that there is plenty of blame to pass around over there ...THAT is 'being part of the problem'.

- "The Chosen People' are ALL people. God loves all people the same. The Jews were 'chosen' for Jesus to be born through them. But other than that ... ALL people are God's Chosen People.




And "MOSSAD"! scary people that lot...
2nd



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 10:35 AM
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Israel was founded by the same people who carved up the middle east and run America. Living there means you get 3 years of military service and you cant make peace on your own therms either its always about the interests of the NWO, or to be more precise, the old world order.

EDIT: Ah okay its a rabbi, shot from the hip here because I thought it another of those Israel controls the world thread. Watching video now.
edit on 27-8-2012 by Cassius666 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 10:36 AM
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There are people at the top running both sides of this show. The terrorists that Iran supposedly sends to all corners of the world and nothing more that OUR CIA guys.
And the Zionists are NOT real Jews. The real jews protest against them also.
Both sides are controlled by the same people at the top. Its insanity at it finest and the rest of the world has caught on to the con. You people here at ATS should know this by now.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 10:38 AM
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And the Zionists are NOT real Jews. The real jews protest against them also.


How are the Zionists not real jews? The Zionists do not run the show either. They do the bidding of their masters in exchange for Israel, assuming there were zionists to begin with. The people who are behind Israel have geopolitical interests in a region where all of the worlds oil comes from. If you look at people like Rothschild, he only cared about the jews when they could do something for him and his entourage. Other than that he only cares about what all men with ambition care, money, power and the heritage to his immediate family.
edit on 27-8-2012 by Cassius666 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 11:18 AM
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I really don't understand the left wing/liberal/Democrat defense of a country that still hangs gay people and executes women for being raped. Is this really what you useful idiots stand for?



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 11:19 AM
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My problem with this type of video and argument isn't who is right and who is wrong, nor who is making propaganda and who is being a victim of it.

As long as you choose one side, you are part of the problem. It doesn't matter if Israel or Iran are right, propaganda only works if you put your thought process aligned with propaganda intentions.


Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position. Propaganda is usually repeated and dispersed over a wide variety of media in order to create the chosen result in audience attitudes.
As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda, in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented.
Source for vague definition.

I would like to see how many of you dare to step up and admit you are part of this propaganda mechanism. I'm not talking about the conspiracy paranoia of having spies and agents masked as members and spreading ideas and misinformation.

I'm referring to yourself's, as individuals, and your responsibility in all this. How many of you pick your arguments and facts based with a pre-set of beliefs, rather than displaying both sides of an argument/position.

That video might be full of factual information, believe it if you want to. But that's below my point, and I'm not trashing the video content. I'm just pointing out the fact that any of these videos only portrays one side of it.

I've yet to see a video, from either side, that put's all the facts and realities on the table.

If an Israeli makes a video of the whole situation, he is going to produce a video around his feelings of injustice and suffering, even if he tries to be impartial. He will always resort to his personal pains, emotions, and memories, rather than what the other side has to say/feel.

And if an Iranian tries the same thing, he will do - quite literally - exactly the same, but in light to his side and opinions.

Both will omit actions and facts that will bring shame to their arguments and positions. Both will try to prove their side in favor of the other. Because of our bruised ego's we are all bound to fortify our stand, rather than to be vulnerable to be refuted.

And personally, I take joy in seeing that - everyday more often - people are starting to step out of the stupid blame-pong game and use reason and logic, mixed with compassion, to see what's really happening in the world.

There are no absolute truth's. There are no absolute sides, reason or victims.

That's why it's so important that we all make a colossal effort into being impartial and educate ourself's. If we are able to make decisions based on the most important values of life, then all those decisions will be empty of bad intent, and if there is no bad intent, there are no victims.

Not only that, but if we make our decisions and positions with that set of mind, then even if we make mistakes, those same mistakes will be open and receptive to good solutions, rather than resorting back to the pointless discussion of who is to blame, responsible and who is a monster.

Saying the minority is a victim and labeling the majority as monsters isn't any different from the actions of the people you accuse of being murders and dictators.

If you side with any group, or any political view (besides having your personal opinion and beliefs, which you are entitled to) you are being part of that propaganda mechanism that so many people complain about. There is a big difference between telling what you think, and telling others what to think.

Can you imagine a world where prejudice and "emotional ammunition" wouldn't be used in a discussion? People wouldn't pat the back's of the people they agree with - and only those - but also with people who they recognize their suffering, the opposing side.

And before you quote or reply to my comment and say "I totally agree/disagree with you", think to yourself's, in your private mind, how you participate in these discussions, if you are not part of the problem, and then justify that by saying "but I'm with the people who are victims".

If we would all make the effort into putting our ego's inside our pockets, I guarantee you we wouldn't need youtube videos to explain us what to feel, think and defend. We would know ourself's, because humans are naturally united.

I believe it's our selfish and egomaniac need to be "right" and force others to be "wrong" that makes us fight each-other on a daily basis.

"United we stand, divided we fall", and that doesn't only stand for nations and communities. It stands for all humans.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by GarrusVasNormandy
As long as you choose one side, you are part of the problem. It doesn't matter if Israel or Iran are right, propaganda only works if you put your thought process aligned with propaganda intentions.


BINGO......



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 12:23 PM
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That video was excruciating. Anyone who made it through the entire thing should win a prize. Or perhaps they should have their head looked at, I can't decide.

The stated objective of ATS is to 'deny ignorance' but apparently most people see it as a forum on which to make their least favourite country/countries look as bad as possible. You can't expect to properly understand the dynamics of a region, much less the world, if you focus on one country to the exclusion of all others.





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