The Death Throes of Authoritarianism? Or True Enlightenment Preparation?

It's our individuality that makes us unique.

2nd line.

Let. Go.

Originally posted by NorEaster

You'll have to reinvent God if you want to achieve unity with it.

Ahhhh ... or God will have to reinvent us so that we can achieve unity with Him.

Originally posted by NorEaster


Of course, being an ATS member, I'm aware of how larger forces work to gain critical advantage in ways that often seem benign and even benevolent, so it's not much of a stretch for me to see how "powers that be" within the eternal realm might recognize an advantage in limiting human cognitive development during a critical gestational stage. In fact, it seems more like a no-brainer, when you consider that the eternal human being is as finite or as infinite as it perceives itself to be. Limit that perception - by religion, ideology, ignorance, abuse, distraction, extreme carnality, extreme "spiritualism", etc - and you've effectively limited yet another potentially troublesome human being. For other human beings in positions of power (as they exist in positions of power here as well) docile humans focused on vague interpretations of "oneness" are as desirable as humans who worship the PTB as God and Jesus and a Heavenly Host.

In essence, whatever it'll take to focus the active mind and get it to stay in line. Namaste or Jesus or 72 virgins. Whatever works for a given individual.

I see Jesus as a man that confronted the worlds power to limit mans perception. He was the total troublesome examiner that came to set men free from their sorted chains. He put distractions on the ground, tried to teach men about bondage, challanged the slave drivers and their tools, disregarded and challanged the measures the world system uses to measure and label. On of His greatest statements was to point out that a man cant really be measured by what he has one way or another. That one blow there really attempts to challange the root of what afflicts man and is hard to hear in lifes daily death rattel. Even today a jesus that dosent serve mamon and prosperity is keept out of the picture.

Originally posted by openlocks
reply to post by LesMisanthrope

 

This can be addressed to NorEaster as well.

I totally agree. I was only showing that the proposition, which many like to express, is contradictory. We are one _______ is a better more complete sentence once the blank is filled in. But I disagree that being a part of a group equates to being a part of a one. This arrises the difficulty in the Problem of Universals which philosophers have been debating since Aristotle. I am under the opinion that universals don't exist. This is of course an opinion based on my own studies.

Of course universals don't exist intrinsically. They are constructs of our attempts to communicate our understanding of reality with each other. But you, as an "individual", is just as much a universal as the concept of the "Universe" is. You are made up of trillions of parts, and each part is made of parts, and so on. Same with the Universe. An "individual part" is just as much a universal as a "whole" is.

That is why it is not contradictory to say "we are one", it is just flat out incorrect,

. But so is saying "I am an individual". Both are equally incorrect, making both equally correct. Both are universals, when in reality there are no such things. Yet both, wholes and parts, are used by us all the time to describe reality.

edit on 25-8-2012 by openlocks because: (no reason given)

But you are trying to say that because and individual is part of a whole in basis, that the individual is not then. Its not happening. Its based on common relationships.....like we all eat, we all sleep.....it goes beyond that.

Oneness & Spiritual Awakening

The Nondual philosophy of Plotinus has had great influence in the Western world. Friedrich Wilhelm Joseph Schelling created the first evolutionary Nondual philosophy in the West, while Sri Aurobindo did the same in the East. There is great consensus about Oneness, but because of the spiritual implications, it tends to be downplayed in secular education and obscured by mainstream western religion. We live at a time when this idea is becoming less framed in terms of certain paradigms or perspectives and more universally integrated. Exciting times, indeed!

Spiritual awakening is the transcendence of ego as the primary orientation and identification. The process expands towards the direct experience of Oneness. Nowadays, many people are engaging in workshops, contemplative classes, and other spiritually-focused pursuits to facilitate this opening. However, attaining spiritual “credentials” does not necessarily foster awakening. In fact, the ego can easily find a new foothold in a “better, more spiritual” identity.

As we awaken, we begin to bridge separation conscious ness with life beyond it. As mentioned earlier, I hold awakening as an ongoing process, while the term “enlightenment” points to an end point of this process when spiritual awakening becomes fully realized as a pervasive and abiding experience.

"Evolution is not finished; reason is not the last word nor the reasoning animal the supreme figure of Nature. As man emerged out of the animal, so out of man the superman emerges." -Sri Aurobindo

reply to post by Logarock

But you are trying to say that because and individual is part of a whole in basis, that the individual is not then. Its not happening. Its based on common relationships.....like we all eat, we all sleep.....it goes beyond that.

What is not happening? An individual IS part of a whole. I am not trying to say anything "in basis", that is a fact! Is a brain cell not part of the brain? Is the brain not considered a holistic unit?

I'm confused what your point is.

What if i believe in oneness but also individualism? Were all connected in a very significant way, yet....we have rights as individuals that no one may take from us, that are worth dying to protect. And this is whu i have a CCW

reply to post by phroziac

Originally posted by phroziac
[We're] all connected in a very significant way...

Please explain. Because the opposite seems to be the case. I would like to hear your argument.

In the physical WE are many forms of light all expressing our selves within a creation that is ongoing, yet divided.

This thread along with others may show proof of the division within the mind of ones self.

When you gaze into all the different expressions of creation you see many forms of the same light.

It is what it is. Both theories are true.

From a source we are divided, yet the same source we are divided from is the same source from which all creation derives and goes back to.

I wonder.... Do we have a place in the Universe that is grounded by the light but we are free to roam the eons and experiences through the manifestation of matter through the light?

The question I have is, Does trapped matter and energy lie within us all and if so, when the matter of the body decays where does the energy go? To its surroundings? Does it go back to the source from which it came? If so, does it go back in time as well? Does the subconscious mind go too? I have to wonder if WE do indeed go back to where we came from and when this happens do we collectively experience or do we experience still on an individual basis? Can both be true?

If we collectively experience then it can be seen at that time we are as one but with the will to be separate from the entire source as a whole.

If matter is made of light, you break down the make up of matter and come to the conclusion that atoms are energy, and energy is light.

Light shows us matter of all sorts and kinds. The light shines on this grand universe and shows us an intimate connection to all of creation.

What are WE without Light?

We are not foreign objects passing through light, but a permeation of light itself which is why light provides no resistance to matter in any form.

As my signature states my opinion in this matter, we are All connected!

In a universe with light, we know dark, yet the darkness does not overcome the light.

Once divided becomes a whole just as a perfect puzzle paints the portrait, so does our lives through the experience of expression within matter, light and energy.

Our individuality must be suppressed to institute a one world government.
The new age movement and all the 2012 hokum are designed to seduce us into giving it up.
It is our uniqueness that is our most divine quality.
It is the genius that can move us forward as a species.
To suppress it or to relinquish it is ultimate defamation of humanity and all that God intended for his children.

''Oneness'' to me is recognition of that which is ultimate, omnipotent, that to which all belongs and is part of .

Visually, something like live nodes on strings, all connected, attached, if one vibrates this has an effect on others. These strings connect to the 'greatest node' which detects vibrations and acts accordingly.

Like a well oiled machine, if all work in sync, with the ultimate goal in mind then the machine works efficiently, if a part of the machine is out of sync or awry then it has an effect on the 'team' and the goal.

As part of some great universal laws that enables that which is omnipotent and the construction of the physical world, there are basic laws to which the physical applies for it's existence to be.

The machinations of physical constructs are subject to these universal laws, including the combined machinations. To visualise, that which is physical exists within physical and non physical constructs.

The emotions, thoughts and vibrations are detectable in ways other than physical and are also subject to universal laws and forces and as such cannot reach beyond their capacity. This is the same for the physical.

The very understanding that the physical and non physical are part of and connected to this 'omnipotence' is the first understanding of 'oneness'.

It isn't about sacrificing individuality, otherwise all physical beings would be identical, and as we know, variation is required for reproduction. (generally).

Living with and understanding the universe in terms of being connected and having a universal conscious is in tune with 'oneness' and the healing of humanity.

The weakness of humanity is the worship of the human ego, the ''I am greater, I deserve more than anyone, I deserve praise and worship and shall demand this'' has caused the depletion of society (castles made of sand) because it is a false construct. The human ego and even combined human ego's are lesser than the 'omnipotent force'.

Look at basic control centres, like companies, from the smallest to the largest corporations. If each and every one started with the premise of creating something that is ethical and treating all those involved ethically and as having worth, the whole corporate greed would not have happened.

Same for governments, tyrants and self serving governments would not have happened.

How many decisions have been made just because a persons ego wouldn't let them admit the truth. How many of these decisions have filtered down through humanity. How many of these decisions have caused wars and famine and ruined peoples and nations.

Individuality is one thing. Ego is another.

Originally posted by followtheevidence

Originally posted by NorEaster

You'll have to reinvent God if you want to achieve unity with it.

Ahhhh ... or God will have to reinvent us so that we can achieve unity with Him.

But, I am certain - and I can prove - that I already exist. And there's the difference between God and I.

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by NorEaster


Of course, being an ATS member, I'm aware of how larger forces work to gain critical advantage in ways that often seem benign and even benevolent, so it's not much of a stretch for me to see how "powers that be" within the eternal realm might recognize an advantage in limiting human cognitive development during a critical gestational stage. In fact, it seems more like a no-brainer, when you consider that the eternal human being is as finite or as infinite as it perceives itself to be. Limit that perception - by religion, ideology, ignorance, abuse, distraction, extreme carnality, extreme "spiritualism", etc - and you've effectively limited yet another potentially troublesome human being. For other human beings in positions of power (as they exist in positions of power here as well) docile humans focused on vague interpretations of "oneness" are as desirable as humans who worship the PTB as God and Jesus and a Heavenly Host.

In essence, whatever it'll take to focus the active mind and get it to stay in line. Namaste or Jesus or 72 virgins. Whatever works for a given individual.

I see Jesus as a man that confronted the worlds power to limit mans perception. He was the total troublesome examiner that came to set men free from their sorted chains. He put distractions on the ground, tried to teach men about bondage, challanged the slave drivers and their tools, disregarded and challanged the measures the world system uses to measure and label. On of His greatest statements was to point out that a man cant really be measured by what he has one way or another. That one blow there really attempts to challange the root of what afflicts man and is hard to hear in lifes daily death rattel. Even today a jesus that dosent serve mamon and prosperity is keept out of the picture.

I agree that the philosophy of Jesus is wonderful and transformative. That said, the history of the deification of Jesus is extremely troubling, and the net result has imprisoned many millions on this side of the veil and who knows how many on that side of the veil. Keep in mind that your existence merely starts here. You'll still have plenty to deal with after your body and brain have returned those borrowed molecules. The evidence suggests that this corporeal phase of your total existence will ultimately be seen - by you - as akin to the 9 months or so you spent gathering your material self together within your mother's womb. A 2nd stage of gestation. Only this stage involves the eternal informational development of the conscious and sentient being that you are now becoming as you respond intellectually and emotionally to each instant of corporeal life.

If this is true, then how important is your perception of reality? I'm going to suggest that it's extremely important. How critical is it that you challenge the dogmas and traditional wisdoms of people who may or may not have bothered to determine whether their own perceptions were and are accurate? If human intellect is built on perception, and if the eternal realm is based on the net result that "perception IS reality" (which is strongly suggested by an impressive series of very credible dots that can be connected), then is it important to do as much to determine and establish the parameters of objective reality while still existing within a realm that is NOT governed by your intellectual perceptions? Again, I'm going to suggest that it's more than important. I'm going to suggest that your future depends on it.

Philosophy is one thing, and working out some intangibles from a philosophical perspective is good clean fun, but it's important to never confuse philosophy with the search for what constitutes objective reality. After all, philosophy is free to deny the existence of objective reality, as it plays around with expanded notions in its relaxed manner. Reality isn't free to be anything other than what it factually is. It doesn't have a +/- percentage leeway. It is only and fully what it is, and while no one can fully perceive reality, you can determine enough of it to give you a distinct advantage going into the free-for-all eternal realm, where the predators hunt with delusion as their weapon.

The "rabbit hole" has nothing to do with a Matrix or a red pill or a blue pill. It has nothing to do with faith or enlightenment. It has to do with accurately determining the reality substructure - the true quantum level of physical existence - and then logically mapping how it all made its way to where we are right now...discussing it on a messageboard with sentience and digital systems that others of our own kind invented and mass produced at strategic profit break points. That's where the real wonder exists. Believe me. If you crack that code, the last thing you'll be bowing to is some tent dweller's imaginary god-man. That traditional stuff won't have any shine left on it.

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
''Oneness'' to me is recognition of that which is ultimate, omnipotent, that to which all belongs and is part of .

Visually, something like live nodes on strings, all connected, attached, if one vibrates this has an effect on others. These strings connect to the 'greatest node' which detects vibrations and acts accordingly.

Like a well oiled machine, if all work in sync, with the ultimate goal in mind then the machine works efficiently, if a part of the machine is out of sync or awry then it has an effect on the 'team' and the goal.

As part of some great universal laws that enables that which is omnipotent and the construction of the physical world, there are basic laws to which the physical applies for it's existence to be.

The machinations of physical constructs are subject to these universal laws, including the combined machinations. To visualise, that which is physical exists within physical and non physical constructs.

This is the impact on physical reality of the residual Informational Continuum, and yes, it does serve as the connection between all that exists. Contextual precedence is how it gathers and how it links everything that was to everything that is and then on to everything that ever will be. And it establishes those universal laws, by revealing what works, what doesn't work, and how replicating what does work is the way for survival to be properly served by whatever it is that exists. It happens and builds by default. A person can't actually achieve this "oneness". It's ramification.

The emotions, thoughts and vibrations are detectable in ways other than physical and are also subject to universal laws and forces and as such cannot reach beyond their capacity. This is the same for the physical.

Interestingly, thoughts and emotions are the only existent "things" that are not brought into existence via progressive default. And that is the majesty of the human being - the self-creator, as well as net result of each sentient brain's thoughts and emotions. Conscious thought. Self awareness. The lone renegade essence that exists within the whole of reality. Each individual mass existing as inimitable and truly unpredictable, and only as indomitable as it believes itself to be...a near perfect illustration of irony.

The very understanding that the physical and non physical are part of and connected to this 'omnipotence' is the first understanding of 'oneness'.

It isn't about sacrificing individuality, otherwise all physical beings would be identical, and as we know, variation is required for reproduction. (generally).

Your interpretation isn't about sacrificing individuality. But that's your interpretation. You're describing holon theory. That's not what I'm referring to here.

Living with and understanding the universe in terms of being connected and having a universal conscious is in tune with 'oneness' and the healing of humanity.

The weakness of humanity is the worship of the human ego, the ''I am greater, I deserve more than anyone, I deserve praise and worship and shall demand this'' has caused the depletion of society (castles made of sand) because it is a false construct. The human ego and even combined human ego's are lesser than the 'omnipotent force'.

Individuality is one thing. Ego is another.

edit on 26-8-2012 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)

Another way to put it....as far as your version of "oneness" is "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"...which is another way of saying "stop being a self-centered *sshole". Both of which I agree with. That said, this is NOT what many of the threads and "oneness" proponents preach on this forum. Ego death is different than growing the hell up and letting go of egotistical self-centeredness. Very different. Click around and do a board term search using the phrase "ego death" and see what I mean.

You are definitely not describing what I'm referring to in this thread. That's very clear, to me, from your post here.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
Our individuality must be suppressed to institute a one world government.
The new age movement and all the 2012 hokum are designed to seduce us into giving it up.
It is our uniqueness that is our most divine quality.
It is the genius that can move us forward as a species.
To suppress it or to relinquish it is ultimate defamation of humanity and all that God intended for his children.

I'd like to add that after we've all left this world, the effort to get us marching in lockstep does not end. The same authoritarian types that kept the trains running on time here didn't change when they dropped the body into the box. No one changes their fundamental nature when their intellect generating systems release that intellect to its inevitable existence. Each one of them is what they made of themselves while they had the use of a brain to build who they ultimately became. From there, it's on to even more important work for most of them. God's work.

At least their own version of God's work...as well as their own perception of who or what God is, of course.

If someone thinks that post corporeal reality is simple and easy to navigate for the human being, then they've got some amazing experiences ahead of them. Either that, or they'll be exactly the kind of "sheeple" that they were programmed to be while they gathered their personalities and reality perspectives together on this side of the veil. Resisting on this side is easy. Here, you have a light that sits there and shows you where the end of the tunnel is. There's no such light on that other side. Not unless you bring it with you.

reply to post by NorEaster


I think you are looking for validation of your PERCEPTION of things.

Looks like you want belief in your perception. But you should realise, it is only your perception.

You cannot write a load of stuff like this using terms that you think valid whilst they possibly aren't.

If you wanted simple answers you must ask simple questions. The very title of this thread is misleading... like titling a thread pot pourri? or mashed potato? seriously, your either / or question requires rewriting.

Perhaps you should address it to just those who think as such, and ask it specifically.

Also give examples of where such people supposedly suggested getting rid of their egos entirely and how they aimed for such. Then ask them the effect they think this has on them and their definition of ego's because you don't seem to understand the irony that your question and replies are showing.

reply to post by NorEaster


Also, do not presume things that I didn't say.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
Our individuality must be suppressed to institute a one world government.

Becoming aware of transpersonal experience does not suppress individuality. Becoming aware of the Divine presence is a refusal to suppress the truth.

Mysticism is not about new age or a one world government. It's about personal experience, personal transformation, personal path. It is found in all ages, all governments, all religions.

reply to post by NorEaster


Irony?

Authoritarian?

Sounds like you are attempting preaching in an authoritarian manner to ''sheeple'', because you are considering yourself an authority on afterlife?

Perhaps the rant forum would be more suitable for this thread.

here's a recent post of yours

I'd like to add that after we've all left this world, the effort to get us marching in lockstep does not end. The same authoritarian types that kept the trains running on time here didn't change when they dropped the body into the box. No one changes their fundamental nature when their intellect generating systems release that intellect to its inevitable existence. Each one of them is what they made of themselves while they had the use of a brain to build who they ultimately became. From there, it's on to even more important work for most of them. God's work. At least their own version of God's work...as well as their own perception of who or what God is, of course. If someone thinks that post corporeal reality is simple and easy to navigate for the human being, then they've got some amazing experiences ahead of them. Either that, or they'll be exactly the kind of "sheeple" that they were programmed to be while they gathered their personalities and reality perspectives together on this side of the veil. Resisting on this side is easy. Here, you have a light that sits there and shows you where the end of the tunnel is. There's no such light on that other side. Not unless you bring it with you.