A question to Muslims re converts from other religions

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posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 11:18 AM
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Hi all, good morning....

I've been (as usual) thinking about the various ideas of death's door scenarios, and in light of the movement away from Christianity and to Islam (by some people -- not me in any case -- I don't hold to any doctrine). Another thread regarding "Thinking about Dying" inspired me finally to pose this question.

If a person has only recently converted to Islam from Christianity, and suddenly finds themselves in the judgment seat...and out of fear they say "I believe in Christ" instead of whatever Muslims are supposed to say ("I believe in the 12th Imam and Allah?" I don't really know what they're supposed to say to get into heaven)...

what happens to them? I mean, if they simply "misspeak" at the crucial moment of claiming the proper "faith password" to be admitted?

Do they go to hell?

I don't mean this to be flippant; I think it's a legit question for someone who has decided to radically alter their dogma or faith from one to the other (even though the two seem to have quite similar actual tenets of peace and all).....

Don't know if anyone can, or cares to, answer, but I do wonder.

Thanks in advance for your personal understandings of what happens....if one becomes tongue-tied and blurts out the wrong phrase...




posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 12:00 PM
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All of the "holy" books were written to control the masses.
Don't sweat it, these fairy tales have no bearing on you other than social standing.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 12:05 PM
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This is a rhetorical question?



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by g146541
All of the "holy" books were written to control the masses.
Don't sweat it, these fairy tales have no bearing on you other than social standing.


Thanks for the reply. Actually, I don't think any kind of claim or phrase or password type thing is required -- I just wonder what the Muslims think happens to those who pass and utter the wrong "oath of fealty" .... to Christ .... in a moment of panicky weakness ....

I agree they have no real bearing, at least not from my perspective. Still, there are devout Muslims who know the rules, just as there are devout Christians who think as long as you get it spoken before you go, you're home free.

So, what if a Christian converts to Muslim, but at the critical moment says the wrong thing?



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


Rhetorical? Well, naturally, all religious questions are rhetorical... without exception...

but, actually I'm honestly wondering if there is a keyword "I believe" kind of thing required to be uttered like the Islamic version of an "open sesame" thing or a badge swipe sort of situation. Like many Christians believe...final rites and all that.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 12:15 PM
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Another way to say it....imagine it's a basketball game, and the clock has run out, and you have to make a three-pointer from half-court to win. If you miss, you lose...
That kind of tension. Is there such a pressure at the time of death according to Islam?



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


In my opinion there is no answer because this situation will never pop up. There is no right or wrong answer and there is no judgement after you die. We will all be reincarnated in some shape, form, or fashion no matter what our personal beliefs are.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


In my opinion there is no answer because this situation will never pop up. There is no right or wrong answer and there is no judgement after you die. We will all be reincarnated in some shape, form, or fashion no matter what our personal beliefs are.

You know that I totally agree with you, 3NL.

Still, the devout and pious have different beliefs about it, and I really want to know what they think.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


I'll take a gander, either a. heaven, or b. hell.


S&F



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





what happens to them? I mean, if they simply "misspeak" at the crucial moment of claiming the proper "faith password" to be admitted?


Faith words come from your heart.Not from your tongue.

12th Imam is Imam. Allah is not sending religious orders to him.

Jesus and other prophets were prophets. They were sent to do their mission , whether people accept or reject them.

But Imam is a leader which people should refer to as their leader .he is not bringing new religion but reviving Islam.

So , when two angels ask the dead , "who was your prophet ?"

He answers "Jesus-pbuh" or "Muhammad-pbuh" or ...

When the angels ask "who was you leader , i.e Imam?"

People answer differently.

+ Going to the hell or heaven will happen at the judgement day. People will be judged by what they have done. They will not be only judges by what they believe.

 


It is a useful question , OP.



To those who mock beliefs to back their ignorance ,

I am waiting to see the face of the people who mock prophets in this modern age and civilization.

edit on 25-8-2012 by mideast because: (no reason given)
edit on 25-8-2012 by mideast because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes

Originally posted by g146541
All of the "holy" books were written to control the masses.
Don't sweat it, these fairy tales have no bearing on you other than social standing.

So, what if a Christian converts to Muslim, but at the critical moment says the wrong thing?

I got your drift, I imagine the muslim book has a guideline for such "crimes" like reduced virgin award, only 42 vs the stated 72 or whatever.
Maybe eternal damnation or a prescribed amount of time in purgatory if they believe in such a thing.
I don't worry about any of it as if I live a good clean life and that is still not good enough.
Screw em all, I'll sell lemonade in hell with dahmer!


Off topic,
Me: Hey Jeff, I hear human tastes just like pork,
Jeff: Dude it all tastes like bacon!! Why do you think they want you to believe it is a taboo!!



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by wildtimes
 


I'll take a gander, either a. heaven, or b. hell.


S&F


You know being in heaven with people caugh up in duality would be hell for me. Think about spending eternity with Jew, Christians and Muslism on each others throat about social conditioning from the ones who cannot let go of social conditioning (I do not mean all people of these faiths but the once who cannot see beyond themselves/ego). Awful. If you are not tired of existiance then you will be after a few years of listening to them bickering.

Please God, Jesus, Buddha and Nanak and anyone else that is listening, keep me separated from them until they get over themselves.
edit on 25-8-2012 by apushforenlightment because: spellchecking



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by apushforenlightment
 


We're experiencing this now, religions bickering over what's right and who's wrong. It won't be any different in our next lives once we reach heaven again.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by mideast
 



To those who mock beliefs to back their ignorance ,

I am waiting to see the face of the people who mock prophets in this modern age and civilization.

Thank you so much for your answer! I was hoping that was the case.....that it's one's actions that determine "destination" after death.
I'm not mocking anything, btw. I think they (the prophets) all had important information to impart....and all are equally deserving of respect.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


wildtimes,

If a person recently converted to Islam, Allah has conferred a great favor on him, if he is earnest. His testimony of faith would be, There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is His servant and Messenger. If out of fear, as you said he confessed his messenger is Jesus and yet in his heart he meant Muhammad, it is all the same.

Allah does not look into words but looks on the heart, if he be sincere or not. The prophets from Adam to the Prophet Muhammad all prophesied through the light of Muhammad, who was the first in thought but the last to manifest. He who is first became last, and he who came last became first.

The recently converted Muslim even if he were a Muslim for only one hour and he died, gets the same reward of the Muslims who worked all their lives.

“For the kingdom of heaven is like a master of a house who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2 After agreeing with the laborers for a denarius1 a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 And going out about the third hour he saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4 and to them he said, ‘You go into the vineyard too, and whatever is right I will give you.’ 5 So they went. Going out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour, he did the same. 6 And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing. And he said to them, ‘Why do you stand here idle all day?’ 7 They said to him, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You go into the vineyard too.’ 8 And hwhen evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his iforeman, ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last, up to the first.’ 9 And when those hired about the eleventh hour came, each of them received a denarius. 10 Now when those hired first came, they thought they would receive more, but each of them also received a denarius. 11 And on receiving it they grumbled at the master of the house, 12 saying, ‘These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and jthe scorching heat.’ 13 But he replied to one of them, k‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14 Take lwhat belongs to you and go. I choose to give to this last worker as I give to you. 15 mAm I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or ndo you begrudge my generosity?’2 16 So the last will be first, and the first last.”


Allah, The Sublime said, "I have prepared for My righteous slaves that which no eye has seen, no ear has heard and has never crossed the mind of any human being".

Then the Prophet (saw) said,
"Recite, if you wish: "No person knows what is kept hidden for them of joy as a reward for what they used to do".(32:17)

Al-Bukhâri, Muslim and an-Nasâ'î report from Abû Hurayrah (ra) that the Prophet (saw) said:

"We are the last, but we will be the first on the Day of Resurrection. We will be the first of mankind to enter Paradise".

so wildtimes,

By Him in whose hand is my soul, no one who testifies that God is only One and Muhammad is His Messenger will enter Hell fire to dwell there in forever.

Good tidings to such a one!

Peace!

edit on 25-8-2012 by queenofangels_17 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by queenofangels_17
 


So someone who has committed countless crimes and murders throughout his/her life can still make it into heaven as long as they confess that Allah is the one true god on their death bed? That seems a bit out of whack, or am I wrong in thinking this?

I also like how he called you a 'righteous slave'. Is that what you confess to be? A slave?



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by queenofangels_17
 


So someone who has committed countless crimes and murders throughout his/her life can still make it into heaven as long as they confess that Allah is the one true god on their death bed? That seems a bit out of whack, or am I wrong in thinking this?

I also like how he called you a 'righteous slave'. Is that what you confess to be? A slave?


Not on your death bed. When you see the angel of death, you cannot confess your faith anymore, if you have up to that time disbelieved.

The Pharaoh upon being overwhelmed by waves and seing his certain death, confessed that there is no god save the God of Moses, but it was not accepted from him.

10:90 And We brought the Children of Israel across the sea, and Pharaoh with his hosts pursued them in rebellion and transgression, till, when the (fate of) drowning overtook him, he exclaimed: I believe that there is no God save Him in whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am of those who surrender (unto Him). Holy Qur'an

10:91 What! Now! When hitherto thou hast rebelled and been of the wrong-doers?

10:92 But this day We save thee in thy body that thou mayest be a sign for those after thee. Lo! most of mankind are heedless of Our signs.

At any other time though, while your soul is still between your teeth, as longs as you confess that there is only One God, all your sins though it be like a mountain as long as you repented sincerely it will be forgiven and you will be accepted to Paradise, unlees you revert to disbelief before you die.

And yes, I am one of His slaves and I am not ashamed to come as a slave to the Beneficent Creator, Who gave me life and cause me to die, and after death He gave me life again.

Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds!



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


If Satan will confess that there is Only One God and repent of his sins then he will be admitted back to Paradise.

A man who sins and repents will taste the Mercy of God.

A man who sins but is proud and refuse to repent will taste the punishment of God.

We are all slaves of God, some of us are willing some unwilling, but that doesn't change the fact.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by queenofangels_17
 


If out of fear, as you said he confessed his messenger is Jesus and yet in his heart he meant Muhammad, it is all the same.

Allah does not look into words but looks on the heart, if he be sincere or not. The prophets from Adam to the Prophet Muhammad all prophesied through the light of Muhammad, who was the first in thought but the last to manifest. He who is first became last, and he who came last became first.

The recently converted Muslim even if he were a Muslim for only one hour and he died, gets the same reward of the Muslims who worked all their lives.

Thank you, so much, queen!!

I was still relatively a newb (maybe still am?) when you returned from your hiatus......but, I very much value your posts here.....and, yeah, I really do want to know!!! Not just 'trolling'.....



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by apushforenlightment
 


We're experiencing this now, religions bickering over what's right and who's wrong. It won't be any different in our next lives once we reach heaven again.


Ohh the horror. Give me a break.
. I think I will be a cat in my next life if I get any choice or anything else that is not human related. Think of it. Runing around a house sleeping a lot and spinning when being petted (probably playing around with chakra).

Being human is so limiting and confining with stupid conditioning to social structures. If I have no good >3D senses then what is the point with a brain/mind that can understand realities >3D. It is boring reading quantum theory and not being able to see what happens when an electron quatum jump because we are limited by 3D (except thru pineal gland but that goes thru mind/ego so it is not a 100% reliable source of information from my point of view).





 
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