A question to Muslims re converts from other religions

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posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by babloyi
 


Both those explanations are correct, although, in the interests of fairness, actual physical fighting DOES come under the term "Jihad" as well (although it was referred to by the Prophet Muhammad as the "lesser Jihad", and is only one of many many different kinds of Jihad).

Any sort of "striving" or hard effort put towards a task with the goal of it being for the sake of God (education, self-improvement, educating others, etc.) can come under "Jihad", depending on the intention.

Thank you again for your succinct and open explanation, babloyi. I have great respect for you and your calm manner.




posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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It's well nown in islam that God keeps the Believers Firm in This Life and in the Hereafter with a Word that stands Firm.

Al-Bukhari recorded that Al-Bara bin `Azib, may Allah be pleased with him, said that the Messenger of Allah said,

(When the Muslim is questioned in the grave, he will testify that, `La ilaha illallah', and that Muhammad is Allah's Messenger, hence Allah's statement, (Allah will keep firm those who believe, with word that stands firm in this world, and in the Hereafter.) Muslim and the rest of the Group recorded it. Imam Ahmad recorded that Al-Bara bin `Azib said, "We went with the Messenger of Allah to attend a funeral procession of an Ansari man. We reached the grave site when it had not yet been completed. The Messenger of Allah sat, and we sat all around him, as if there were birds hovering above our heads. The Prophet was holding a piece of wood in his hand, poking the ground with it. He next raised his head and said twice or thrice,

(Seek refuge with Allah from the punishment of the grave.) He said next,

(When a believing slave is reaching the end of his term in the life of this world and the beginning of his term in the Hereafter, a group of angels, whose faces are white and as radiant as the sun, will descend onto him from heaven. They will carry with them white shroud from Paradise, and fragrance for enshrouding from Paradise. They will sit as far from him as the sight goes. Then, the angel of death, will come until he sits right next to his head, saying, "O, good and pure soul! Depart (your body) to Allah's forgiveness and pleasure.'' So the soul flows (out of its body), just as the drop flows out from the tip of the jug, and the angel of death captures it. When he captures the soul, they (the group of angels) will not leave it with him for more than an instance, and they will seize it and wrap it in that shroud, and in that fragrance. A most pleasant musk scent ever found on the earth, will flow out of the soul, and the angels will ascend it (to heaven). They will not pass by, but they will say, "Whose is this Tayyib (good) soul'' They (the angels who are ascending the soul) will reply, "Such person, the son of such and such person,'' -- calling him by the best names that he used to be called in the world. They will reach the lower heaven and will ask that its door be opened for him, and it will be opened for them. The best residents of every heaven will then see him to the next heaven, until he is brought to the seventh heaven. Allah, the Exalted and Ever High, will say, "List my servants record in `Illiyyin and send him back to earth, for I have created them from it, and into it I shall return them, and from it I shall bring them out once again.'' The soul will be joined with its body, and two angels will come to him, sit him up and ask him,
"Who is your Lord''
He will say, "Allah is my Lord.''
They will ask him, "What is your religion''
He will say, "My religion is Islam.''
They will say to him, "What do you say about this man (Prophet Muhammad) who was sent to you''

He will say, "He is the Messenger of Allah.''
They will ask him, "And what proof do you have about it'' He will say,
"I read the Book of Allah (the Qur'an), and had faith and belief in him.''

Then, a caller (Allah) will herald from heaven, "My servant has said the truth. Therefore, furnish him from Paradise, and let him wear from (the clothes of) Paradise, and open a door for him to Paradise.'' So he is given from Paradise's tranquillity and good scent, and his grave will be expanded for him as far as his sight can reach. Then, a man, with a handsome face and handsome clothes and whose scent is pleasant, will come to him, saying, "Receive the glad tidings with that which pleases you. This is the Day which you were promised.'' He will ask him,
"Who are you; for yours is the face that carries the good news''
He will reply, "I am your good works.''
He will say, "O Lord! Hurry up with the commencement of the Hour, hurry up with the commencement of the Hour, so I can return to my family and my wealth.'')
abdurrahman.org...



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 02:40 PM
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reply to post by Anonymousman
 


Okay, thanks for that explanation. What, though, if a person "signs up" for Islam privately. (Is that even possible? Can a person be a solitary Muslim who doesn't tell anyone s/he has chosen to do so?) And then the person, who speaks English only --but not Farsi or Arabic or Hebrew or whatever language ..... please excuse my ignorance; is there a common language among Muslims? There is not amongst Christians....----dies and can't pronounce or remember the (here I'll try it without looking back at your post) "Ilai lallah illah" syllables correctly?

So, two questions there -- a) is Islam something a person can "choose" on their deathbed, even if they don't know the proper words or protocol?
b) if someone privately decides Islam makes sense, must they "witness" to someone for it to count?

Sincere questions, I'm not trying to mock or harass. Really want to know.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
Thank you all for your responses! I do understand it better, now...
can we expand the discussion to how "Christians" are "infidels"?
They only believe in One God, and the Trinity thing doesn't really change that...although I can see how it would seem so.

They do believe Jesus was more than a man, and disregard Muhammed (I guess)....so, is it in the disrespect of Muhammed that they are considered infidels? Is that the big catch? That by saying Jesus is God, they are claiming there is more than one??

Might be, if that is the case, that the same "translation" situation is occurring there between the two.. creating a misunderstanding (as has been discussed above regarding servitude/slavery as a "negative connotation" by some), where the Christians consider the One God became incarnate, but is still the One God.....

So, is that why they are doomed in the Muslim's eyes?
Or, if a life-long hard-core Bible literalist -- at that last moment of ability -- acknowledges Muhammed was equal to Jesus, is he then treated as though he believed it his whole life and is forgiven?

This is all highly interesting to me, thanks again, everyone who has participated.




Belief in Trinity is idolatry, since this doctrine teaches that God is one of three, instead of being ONLY ONE GOD. However much Christians try to rationalize this doctrine by saying that He is only One God and that Jesus, and the Holy Spirit and the Father (God) are united in One deity, it doesn't add up, 1+1+1= 3 when there is but One God.

There are some Christians who don't believe in Trinity and believe in Only One God, but they mix it with something bad, that is, they ascribe Jesus as His son instead of just His Prophet, that makes them disbelievers in the sight of God and most especially, liars, since they tell something false about God.

4:171 O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "three". Cease! (it is) better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that he should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.

5:77 Say: O People of the Scripture! Stress not in your religion other than the truth, and follow not the vain desires of folk who erred of old and led many astray, and erred from a plain road.

Saying that Jesus is God is very bad indeed, that would make God two instead of just being One God.

16:51 Allah hath said: Choose not two gods. There is only One God. So of Me, Me only, be in awe.

God does not need to incarnate or become human, He has no need to. He sends His Messengers to guide the people to the right path, they speak only what He tells them to speak, and act by His command. Whoever folows His guidance will be saved.

Jesus never claimed to be God, and never asked to be worshiped as if he was God, the apostates did that.

3:79It is not (possible) for any human being unto whom Allah had given the Scripture and wisdom and the Prophethood that he should afterwards have said unto mankind: be slaves of me instead of Allah; but (what he said was): be ye faithful servants of the Lord by virtue of your constant teaching of the Scripture and of your constant study thereof. -

As for your last question, someone who believes in the Prophethood of Muhammad towards the end of his life and acknowledge Allah as his Only God, is as if he believed it all his life. Since your life is decided at how it ends not how it began.

We are all born to die, and as Jesus said one must therefore learn to die well.

To die as a believer is the best death, and the worst death is to die while you are a disbeliever in God.

2:132 The same did Abraham enjoin upon his sons, and also Jacob, (saying): O my sons! Lo! Allah hath chosen for you the true religion; therefore die not save as men who have surrendered unto Him. (Muslims)

***
3:91 Lo! those who disbelieve, and die in disbelief, the (whole) earth full of gold would not be accepted from such a one if it were offered as a ransom (for his soul). Theirs will be a painful doom and they will have no helpers.

Peace!



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by queenofangels_17
 


God does not need to incarnate or become human, He has no need to. He sends His Messengers to guide the people to the right path, they speak only what He tells them to speak, and act by His command. Whoever folows His guidance will be saved.

This is what I believe.
Thank you.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Language is not a barrier in becoming a Muslim. Although the Holy Qur'an was originally revealed in Arabic, it has since been translated into English and other spoken languages. Almost 80 percent of Muslims are non- Arabs.

Here's an English translation of the Holy Qur'an that I use, since I also don't know how to read Arabic:

www.sacred-texts.com...

There are too many converts to Islam who don't understand Arabic, yet in some ways understand it better than those who came before them.

Allah writes Faith in the hearts of the believers, and if He wills to guide someone, He expands his or her understanding and opens the heart to accept Truth.

6:125 And whomsoever it is Allah's will to guide, He expandeth his bosom unto the Surrender, and whomsoever it is His will to send astray, He maketh his bosom close and narrow as if he were engaged in sheer ascent. Thus Allah layeth ignominy upon those who believe not.

Peace!



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 07:30 PM
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reply to post by queenofangels_17
 


There are too many converts to Islam who don't understand Arabic, yet in some ways understand it better than those who came before them.

Thanks, queen. I'm still not subscribing, but.... a couple of months ago I visited the Baha'i temple in Chicago, and went through the 'visitor's center'.....

I am in agreement that there is one God, and that all of the 'prophets' and 'messiahs' are spreading the same message.

Thanks for your input!



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 04:33 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


If you believe in One God and believe in all the Prophets, then you have returned to your original faith. We are all Muslims by birth, but become Jews, Christians, Buddhist, Hindu, etc, or whatever religion your parents are following.

If you believe in God and His Messengers then you are submitting to His will and fulfilling His Covenant and are henceforth a Muslim, or one who surrenders his will to God.

The first step is to submit to God's will, then God causes to grow in faith whom He wills, until they become firm believers and until they become perfect.

49:14 The wandering Arabs say: we believe. Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Ye believe not, but rather say "we submit," for the faith hath not yet entered into your hearts. Yet, if ye obey Allah and His messenger, He will not withhold from you aught of (the reward of) your deeds. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Mankind will be divided in three kinds on the Day of Ressurrection.. as described in Chapter 56 of the Holy Qur'an (The Event)

56:7 And ye will be three kinds:

56:8 (First) those on the right hand; what of those on the right hand?

56:9 And (then) those on the left hand; what of those on the left hand?

56:10 And the foremost in the race, the foremost in the race:

www.sacred-texts.com...

The believers, disbelievers and the Prophets and saints.

May Allah guide you to the straight Path.

Peace!



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 04:43 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by babloyi
 


I'll never understand how you can be proud to be called a slave, that's not something I would ever want to be referred to as. To each his own I guess.


4:172 The Messiah will never scorn to be a slave unto Allah, nor will the favored angels. Whoso scorneth his service and is proud, all such will He assemble unto Him;



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 05:31 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 




Is that what you confess to be? A slave?


We are all willing slaves on this earth.
Some are willing slaves to the world and its materialistic pleasures.
Some are willing slaves to God. They know that this world is only a test and keep their eyes on the afterlife.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 




Is that what you confess to be? A slave?


We are all willing slaves on this earth.
Some are willing slaves to the world and its materialistic pleasures.
Some are willing slaves to God. They know that this world is only a test and keep their eyes on the afterlife.

So, Christianity and Islam are identical? It seems, then, what is causing these "holy wars" is a disagreement on who is the true Messiah. Wow, I feel like I'm living in a comic book.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 09:47 AM
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reply to post by gentledissident
 


So, Christianity and Islam are identical? It seems, then, what is causing these "holy wars" is a disagreement on who is the true Messiah.

It does seem that way. As I understand it, the Muslims don't accept that Jesus was God-in-the-flesh. They recognize him as a prophet/messiah, but still a mortal. The Christians say Jesus was God, and his death was the salvation of all mankind, therefore no need for Muhammed. He was a Johnny-come-lately.

I guess.

Anyway, I just go with what's in my heart; and strive to be gracious, kind, patient, and wise. I can't control anyone else, only myself. And I've learned that if you don't have expectations, you can't be disappointed.

I really do want world peace. Just for everyone to get along, help out when there's slack to be pulled up, and feel included and validated.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 11:11 AM
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reply to post by gentledissident
 




So, Christianity and Islam are identical? It seems, then, what is causing these "holy wars" is a disagreement on who is the true Messiah. Wow, I feel like I'm living in a comic book.


Both Muslims and Christians accept Jesus as the messiah.

You are not living in a comic book. You simply don't understand Islam and what Jesus taught as well as you think you do.

edit on 27-8-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
You are not living in a comic book. You simply don't understand Islam and what Jesus taught as well as you think you do.


Honestly, I'm tired of trying to figure out what was to have been said or the proper way to interpret it. If they said something like, "Be kind, considerate, helpful, and thoughtful," then I agree. However, it certainly doesn't take a prophet to figure that out. It might take laws to lock up or catch and rehabilitate those who ignore our social nature and then abuse other homo sapiens due to a personal survival nature. The law can't be everywhere, so it may take the threat of a god or the love a god to curb abuse. This is one of the roles of a god in society.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by gentledissident
 


Now let me ask you.... what do you think is more worthwhile...

This world, which is simply temporary?

or

The afterlife which is eternal?

I consider myself a "slave of God". I would rather stay focused on the afterlife. I know that this world is only temporary. I could be "happy" here and have everything I desire. But I know that I can not take my wealth in this world (what muslims call the duniya) after I die.



I mean to say, that deeds in this life have a bearing on what you experience in the afterlife.



edit on 27-8-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by gentledissident
 


Now let me ask you.... what do you think is more worthwhile...

This world, which is simply temporary?

or

The afterlife which is eternal?

The world is all we have. We should make the most of it. Lets not waste our planet and our lives with wishful thinking for life after death. Relieving the stress of being able to contemplate death by promising an afterlife is another function of religion

However, if I were a Christian...
edit on 27-8-2012 by gentledissident because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 11:31 AM
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reply to post by gentledissident
 



If they said something like, "Be kind, considerate, helpful, and thoughtful," then I agree. However, it certainly doesn't take a prophet to figure that out.

Separate the core religious concepts from the people who follow them.. you will find that religions do teach one to be " kind, considerate, helpful, and thoughtful.
If you know of one that teaches against it, I could learn something new.


It might take laws to lock up or catch and rehabilitate those who ignore our social nature and then abuse other homo sapiens due to a personal survival nature.

What do you mean by "abuse" exactly. I'm sorry, I didn't get your point.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by gentledissident
 




The world is all we have. We should make the most of it. Lets not waste our planet and our lives with wishful thinking for life after death.


I agree with you that we should make the most of life. But HOW?

You can do it thinking "the world is all we have".
Or you can do it thinking "there is something else" or "my actions here would affect what we face after life".

Now, I am not trying to preach or anything. Im just presenting how people can deal with something in different ways.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
you will find that religions do teach one to be " kind, considerate, helpful, and thoughtful.
If you know of one that teaches against it, I could learn something new.
Well, great, we're almost on the same page. Let's make the planet fantastic.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
What do you mean by "abuse" exactly. I'm sorry, I didn't get your point.
If you have not encountered abuse, you are either lucky or a hermit.
edit on 27-8-2012 by gentledissident because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
I agree with you that we should make the most of life. But HOW?

We should cooperate to build a technological utopia. We should strive to eliminate stress, sickness, and injury. Everyone should have a lot of leisure time and a lot to do with it.






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