Belief in God/Jesus through Personal experiences.

reply to post by jiggerj


I have a personal experience that blew my mind, but just verified what I believed all along. What blew my mind was that it me that was being saved, I didn't know anyone really cared, before.

Let me preface my story with the truth, I don't believe in the God of the Bible. I don't believe in Jesus, as born of a Virgin, died for my sins as the savior of the world, or rose from the dead. But I do believe in a God energy and a spiritual hierarchy.

I posted this in another thread, about miracles, so I'll quote the post, as per ATS spamming rules.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I driving home on a windy, cold winter night. I stopped for gas and the gas attendants were having fun turning the gas pumps on and off as I was pumping my gas and trying to keep my skirt down at the same time, it was so windy. A guy, hitchhiking on the side of the road, saw this going on and offered to pump my gas for me.

I thanked him, and he asked me for a ride to the airport, as his wife was in labor and he needed to get to the airport to make the last flight. I passed the airport on my way home, so, I told him sure, but as I looked at his face I saw a knife in his mind. I was young, naive and grateful to him for pumping my gas, so I said he had to put his backpack in my trunk.

As we were driving through a long stretch of unlit rural farm land, he had a number of excuses as to why I needed to pull over, because he needed his backpack. I stuck to my intuition and turned down his request over and over. Finally, he had his hands around my throat ordering me to pull over.

For some reason I never lost control or felt any kind of fear. I was kinda outside my body, still gripping the steering wheel with his hands around my throat, when I saw and angel standing in the middle of the road. He was about 18 feet tall, white and winged, and holding out his hand, as if to say stop.

I slammed on the brakes and at that moment, a car that had been on the side of the road with no lights on, pulled out in front of me to make a u-turn. My car was already screeching to a halt as my eyes and the other driver's met. We collided and the impact threw my assailant off of me.

When the dust settled he got out of my car and ran away. When the police came, I turned the backpack in my trunk over to them, never looking inside.

I'm not sure what exactly angels are, but I believe in them.

Originally posted by HamrHeed
Interesting but nonetheless, whether the creator wants or not, we pay tribute for this ultimate gift of life. We have an actual chance of conquering our dreams in our waking ours and even dreaming about the dream instead of just darkness and empty space.
It's called faith and there is so much we don't understand about the universe so making a defined stance at this early part in our civilization would be foolish?. We have been here for a short time and came so far. Evoloution is speeding up as the universe expands
Our goal is the stars and possibly unite with our long lost cousins. I believe life has a purpose and it goes hand in hand with my faith in the divine creator

edit on 25-8-2012 by HamrHeed because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-8-2012 by HamrHeed because: (no reason given)

Take 'divine' out of the last sentence and I'm right there with ya. Though I believe it to be highly improbable for a creator to have manufactured this universe, I don't find it completely impossible.
A god might not be impossible

reply to post by apushforenlightment

I heard something inside my head that was only meant for me...

I only listen to authority when there is a mix of reason/logic/...

What does your reason and logic tell you about hearing something inside of your head?

Originally posted by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by HamrHeed

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by jiggerj
In order to believe beyond doubt I would need to witness God or Jesus appearing in the sky...

I thought you said that CHRISTIANS were the ones that don't want to hear the truth?

How is your statement relevant to my statement?

If you are waiting for god and jesus to appear in the sky, you will be waiting long. If you understood christianity more, you would recognize that what you suggested, while possible like anything is highly unlikely because an atheist told you of a white bearded guy in the sky with flaws and a sun named jose.
Too many people have bought into the "souvenir shop" of christianity

edit on 25-8-2012 by HamrHeed because: (no reason given)

If they want Christ conciousness or proof of something more then they should work for it with chakra meditation from my point of view. Become the mystic and seek higher understanding (gnosis) and they will get it. Probably thru synchronicity.

Why should a god cater only to those with the intelligence to search for him? How many people are too (for lack of a better word) stupid to seek higher understanding? How many people live in parts of the world where Jesus has never been heard of? If we cannot make it into heaven except through Jesus (or a belief in Allah), why are these people automatically condemned to hell?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by jiggerj

 

What an exciting dream/vision, jiggerj! Even more exciting is knowing that you're starting to have your own experiences! Lord knows, you've been hanging out in the religious forum for awhile asking questions and looking for answers and you've never stopped.

When God told you to "love me", he meant just that. Before you can love others and do God's will the way he expects you to, you have to build a relationship with Him first. To love Him, you need to talk to him as though He's your closest friend, loving parent and/or a supportive spouse on a regular basis. Building relationships take work and a relationship with God isn't any different.

He wants you to talk to Him, jiggerj! Talk to Him daily. Tell Him about your day. Tell Him your biggest fears. Tell Him your greatest joys. Spill your guts and He'll reveal Himself to you more often!

Oh that vision is 20 years old, and my days of talking to him fell on deaf ears every time. No, the vision was just a dream. But, my dream of convincing every religious person in the world to forget about god and the afterlife and experience the here and now - well, that might be more than just a dream.

Originally posted by BBobb
Well, Jesus told us not to cast our pearls before swine. I believe that this very much is instruction describing our responsibilities toward non-believers. If I tell a non-believer a personal story that strengthens my belief when his/her heart is not prepared to receive it, all I will receive in return is a sort of attack, disbelief, a sense that I am a fool...etc. So, we don't do it. You'd be surprised, believers share such stories with one another a good bit, because it's exciting and we believe one another when told, but not with non-believers, because there is little point.

I just made a thread that basically tells such a story, I thought it might be a nice thing to do for ATS, but no one cared, and the only person who replied just attacked me personally. There's your answer.

My Trip to Heaven - ATS Thread

I remember that thread. Instead of jumping in, I stayed away. You're welcome.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by apushforenlightment

 

I heard something inside my head that was only meant for me...

I only listen to authority when there is a mix of reason/logic/...

What does your reason and logic tell you about hearing something inside of your head?

If I was listening to scientist/conditioning from other humans then I might think I was crazy. If I read the bible or other peoples spiritual experiance from all over the world or read lyrics from many of our current date singers/bands then it seems many have experianced the same thing. My conclusion is that most humans do not know what their own body is capable of and what exists in them and are not experiancing all that can be experianced in life. I definetly had no clue what being alive felt like and I think I still have a few more things to understand about my own body. I can play my body more like the instrument it is but I am still not a pro. Need more practise at playing it to become better.

I think Gnarls Barkley is fitting on this post.
Gnarls Barkley - Crazy LYRICS

reply to post by eight bits


Just so everyone knows, I did NOT create this thread to bash anyone for their beliefs. Forget that I am called 'atheist' when I'd much rather be called a truth seeker. I don't debate only religious beliefs. If something stinks in science, I'm not going to 'have faith' in scientists simply because they say something is this way or that way.

That said, what I wish for here is for some people to be able to look at what they call visions or personal experiences and say, "Well, your explanations do have some merit."

I mean, here I am, a nonbeliever of a biblical god, describing my very own vision-slash-dream.

So, eight bits, if you take a look at Richard Bucke's very first paragraph, wouldn't you think it possible that his vision blossomed out of a very strong power of suggestion?

His mind, deeply under the influence of the ideas, images and emotions called up by the reading and talk of the evening, was calm and peaceful.

When we experience a totally miserable evening, isn't it only human to carry this misery with us for a while? Maybe even have images of killing the one person that made you miserable? The influences of daily life tend to send our minds off into fantasy worlds with apparent ease. A lousy marriage helps us imagine a perfect marriage with a perfect spouse. Kids laughing makes us wish for a return to our own childhoods, or maybe imagine a better childhood than what we had.

I have gone ice fishing on the moons of Jupiter. Visited planets with friendly beasts. Lived on this world as the lone survivor of a deadly disease. Tell me, why are these just dreams, but when we imagine a god it's called a vision?

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by HamrHeed

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by jiggerj
In order to believe beyond doubt I would need to witness God or Jesus appearing in the sky...

I thought you said that CHRISTIANS were the ones that don't want to hear the truth?

How is your statement relevant to my statement?

If you are waiting for god and jesus to appear in the sky, you will be waiting long. If you understood christianity more, you would recognize that what you suggested, while possible like anything is highly unlikely because an atheist told you of a white bearded guy in the sky with flaws and a sun named jose.
Too many people have bought into the "souvenir shop" of christianity

edit on 25-8-2012 by HamrHeed because: (no reason given)

If they want Christ conciousness or proof of something more then they should work for it with chakra meditation from my point of view. Become the mystic and seek higher understanding (gnosis) and they will get it. Probably thru synchronicity.

Why should a god cater only to those with the intelligence to search for him? How many people are too (for lack of a better word) stupid to seek higher understanding? How many people live in parts of the world where Jesus has never been heard of? If we cannot make it into heaven except through Jesus (or a belief in Allah), why are these people automatically condemned to hell?

They are not. You made the assumption that I belive in one Religon is right and another is wrong. From my view some of them are easier ways to find god than others but it is always god who answers no matter what mask you place on him. Once you have a personal relationship with god then faith and religon becomes unimportant/small minded at least for me. I have read Jesus and Buddha. They come from the same source and preach the same nonduality meassage. This humans vs humans religious duality is a human thing not a god thing. If you belive in higher morality and the golden rule and act on it then you have nothing to fear from yourself or god. God normaly puts you where you can learn the most or help the most. Do you think god would leave a soul behind just because he/she does not go to mass if he/she lives like a saint? Would god put anybody on the wrong place to be condamed for eternit?. If god makes a misstake then it will be the first to admit it and fix it when it realises it. Evolution takes time. Both biological evolution of spicies and spiritual evolution of a soul and social grouping in the form of society. Sometimes evolution is almost stagnant and sometimes evolution changes quickly.

I would call my relationship with god symbiotic. God cannot be everyhing it is without me and I cannot exists without it.

I do not have any senses outside 3D except the pineal gland and I can only use that internaly thru my mind so my ego/mind might interpert the information based on my conditioning and thought patterns. That is why I spend time analysing my own mind to look at faults in understanding/reasoning at regular intervals and questioning my own understanding of reality and god.

Right know I am trying to be comfortable about ideas that two objects in 3D that are close to each other can be very far from each other in >3D and that things that are very far from each other can be totaly connected in >3D. It is wierd thinking of what we see as a 3D projection of a higher dimensional self/information. I understand that it will explain a lot of questions in Quantum mechanics like quantom jump. I need a bigger brain and more senses. This one is really nearing its limits of usefulness from my point of view. What I would not give to have Einstein here again seeking the thruth behind all things and explaining it for ous. What a mind . People like him are truely a gift from god both for their mind and their being.

jj

I mean, here I am, a nonbeliever of a biblical god, describing my very own vision-slash-dream.

And I very much appreciated reading it. It is refreshing when someone who calls upon others to do something leads by example.

So, eight bits, if you take a look at Richard Bucke's very first paragraph, wouldn't you think it possible that his vision blossomed out of a very strong power of suggestion?

Yes, it is possible. I wasn't there, he was. I'm not a licensed psychiatrist, he was. Should I attribute it to the "power of suggestion?" How many people, round numbers, do you figure ever rode in a cab, returning to their home or hotel after an evening talking with their friends? Of those, what proprsrtion have reported an experience comparable with Bucke's?

Bucke's report occurs in a prologue to his book where he studied historical examples of the phenomenon, building on James' Varieties. Although the content of visionary experience is broadly similar throughout time and space, the circumstances under which it is experienced vary greatly. So, while I find your theory possible, I don't think it has much explanatory power. It seems ad hoc to me, tailored to fit the case that was offered as an example.

You did ask.

I have gone ice fishing on the moons of Jupiter. Visited planets with friendly beasts. Lived on this world as the lone survivor of a deadly disease. Tell me, why are these just dreams, but when we imagine a god it's called a vision?

Well, I experience myself typing out this message. I have typed out messages in dreams (you can see how much less interesting my dreams are than yours). Although I may be mistaken, I think I really am typing this message, and I believe that I did not really type out any message when I dreamt I was typing.

I could be mistaken, of course, but if I think I can tell the difference between typing and dreaming that I am typing, then I am not in a position to dismiss someone else's report that they can tell the difference between dreaming about something, and realistically experiencing an encounter with it. Respecting that difference does not commit me to accept their interpretation uncritically, but I am very comfortable declining to dismiss the report.

In closing, although it wasn't directed to me, in answer to your query

What does your reason and logic tell you about hearing something inside of your head?

My reason and logic tell me that I should hear them out. Was this a trick question?

Originally posted by SisyphusRide

since when did non believers need proof anyway? can it be they are searching for God...

Since... forever. Where have you been all the time? That is their main reason for NOT believing...

Originally posted by jiggerj
Consider this: God wants you to know him. Right? Well, god is GOD. If he wanted you to know him he'd just pop in for coffee some time. He can do that because he's GOD!

Yup, this is a big problem with religion. Instead, it wants you to set yourself up emotionally through Biblical "knowledge" so you can psych yourself out. You then immediately have love, forgiveness, justice, and eternal life. Without a shred of proof, you think you get what the downtrodden homo sapien wishes for. You suddenly just know you have it. Not only does this drug not cure anything, it makes things worse by creating schizophrenics. If religion were a drug, lawyers would be all over it.

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by jiggerj
Consider this: God wants you to know him. Right? Well, god is GOD. If he wanted you to know him he'd just pop in for coffee some time. He can do that because he's GOD!

Yup, this is a big problem with religion. Instead, it wants you to set yourself up emotionally through Biblical "knowledge" so you can psych yourself out. You then immediately have love, forgiveness, justice, and eternal life. Without a shred of proof, you think you get what the downtrodden homo sapien wishes for. You suddenly just know you have it. Not only does this drug not cure anything, it makes things worse by creating schizophrenics. If religion were a drug, lawyers would be all over it.

edit on 25-8-2012 by gentledissident because: period

Seeing as Jesus is portrayed in the bible as one who spends more time with sinners and such as unbelievers, why would people that claim to already believe in him reap rewards when they supposedly already HAVE their reward just for knowing him. Yet, Jesus/God refuses to reveal himself to unbelievers - the ones that need not just more proof, but tangible proof? In the biblical account, Jesus allowed Doubting Thomas to stick his finger in his wounds, yet the doubting Thomas of today gets nothing.

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by jiggerj
Consider this: God wants you to know him. Right? Well, god is GOD. If he wanted you to know him he'd just pop in for coffee some time. He can do that because he's GOD!

Yup, this is a big problem with religion. Instead, it wants you to set yourself up emotionally through Biblical "knowledge" so you can psych yourself out. You then immediately have love, forgiveness, justice, and eternal life. Without a shred of proof, you think you get what the downtrodden homo sapien wishes for. You suddenly just know you have it. Not only does this drug not cure anything, it makes things worse by creating schizophrenics. If religion were a drug, lawyers would be all over it.

edit on 25-8-2012 by gentledissident because: period

So go the mystic/spiritual route instead? Think of god as a thing that is behind all religons but all religons do not tell the whole thruth so you do not have to choose any specific view of god. Your beliefs will be a bit off whatever you choose or understand. Maybe play around with chakra and meditation to explore the unknown abilities of the human body/mind?

It is gods nature of god that only god can know everything about god. You can make an abstract represenation of god that is right but the parts in the represenation will be unknown to all but god. . God is so cool.

Originally posted by jiggerj
In the biblical account, Jesus allowed Doubting Thomas to stick his finger in his wounds, yet the doubting Thomas of today gets nothing.

I got an idea for you.

How about we nail someone innocent to the cross with every single generation!

That's it! Nail him up and let God raise him from the dead each and every 60 years that way stupid man can be rest assured that what was will still be.

Too dramatic? Perhaps instead a Prophet or two to destroy the wayward cities that forget what happened or rather ignore because the only proofs are the stories from some dead guys from the last generation.

Would that work? Nah, forget about it.


God is loving God anyway, he sends a plague, then sends the cure. He makes a man lame, then picks him up.
He makes a man blind, then restores his sight. He takes man deaf then restores his hearing. What a punk this God.

Gee God, the Sun, the moon, the stars, the wondrous knowledge of all these things in creation just are not enough! Give me, give me, give me, damn it! GIVE ME MORE!!!!!



Uggggghhhhh!




Now....


God Loves you.