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Belief in God/Jesus through Personal experiences.

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posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Nooneimparticular
 

Don't bother. In my experience the atheist is closed and this one will even admit to have seen proof, and still he's back to being an atheist! It's absurd.

P.S. God even revealed himself to him in a dream, but because God didn't have an elephant head or a Buddha belly, he dismissed it out of hand..!

edit on 24-8-2012 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)


Where is this PROOF? If you dream of unicorns, does that make them real? A dream is only proof that it's a dream. God appearing and standing before an audience is proof of god. If he appears before only one, then that person's mental state may be called into question.

Consider this: God wants you to know him. Right? Well, god is GOD. If he wanted you to know him he'd just pop in for coffee some time. He can do that because he's GOD!




posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
In order to believe beyond doubt I would need to witness God or Jesus appearing in the sky...


I thought you said that CHRISTIANS were the ones that don't want to hear the truth?



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
If he appears before only one, then that person's mental state may be called into question.

Consider this: God wants you to know him. Right? Well, god is GOD. If he wanted you to know him he'd just pop in for coffee some time. He can do that because he's GOD!


There are more believers based on their personal experiences than not. Are you saying we should question the minorities sanity because they will not believe the testimony of the majority?

Also, suppose God did show up for coffee. What form would be suitable for you to both recognize him AND not be stricken to death at his Majesty?



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
If he wanted you to know him he'd just pop in for coffee some time.

If he DIDN'T want you to know him, things like this wouldn't be happening all over the planet on a daily basis: The Amazing Story of Kirk Martin

God DOES want us to know him but the question you need to ask is do YOU want to know God.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by Nooneimparticular

Originally posted by jiggerj
If he appears before only one, then that person's mental state may be called into question.

Consider this: God wants you to know him. Right? Well, god is GOD. If he wanted you to know him he'd just pop in for coffee some time. He can do that because he's GOD!


There are more believers based on their personal experiences than not. Are you saying we should question the minorities sanity because they will not believe the testimony of the majority?

Also, suppose God did show up for coffee. What form would be suitable for you to both recognize him AND not be stricken to death at his Majesty?



A better question seems to me to be how would your life change or the world change if he had coffee with the masses?
Have you all ever been on a water slide?
Have you all ever been on a water slide that you knew every turn, twist an downward spiral to?



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 10:08 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
I've presented this list many times. In order to believe beyond doubt I would need to witness events such as these:

1. Amputated arms and/or legs miraculously cured.


This doesn't prove God or Jesus; maybe there is just a spiritual energy that exists that can heal, and there is a "field" where all spiritual energy comes from. That is one explanation that doesn't need a "god".



Originally posted by jiggerj

2. Two mountains side by side, only one of them is defying gravity (as only a god can produce) and floating thirty feet in the air.


How doe we know it's not advanced technology by an alien pretending to be god for worship and slaves? That is a possibility that doesn't require a "god".




Originally posted by jiggerj
3. God or Jesus appearing in the sky and speaking to everyone on earth.



How would you know what "God" or "Jesus" looks like? Based on painting that people drew who lived a least 1400 years after Jesus supposedly lived (renaissance way after ancient Greeks and Romans)?

Even if "Jesus" appeared and he looked nothing like they claim, but you KNEW it was him, how would we know that he is the true god and nothing is beyond him?


This is why I don't follow any gods. I'd rather follow "The Kingdom of Heaven within" me.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 10:59 PM
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I hope that I'm not out of place here. Could it be that we are naturally loving and understanding animals capable of mind blowing thoughts? Could this perceived middle man be a mechanism to activate our own abilities?

"We are the energy. Don't want to believe in ghosts no more"
Love and Rockets



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 01:02 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Alright, I actually joined after lurking for about one and a half years just to tell one of the instances that happened to me and fully expect to get cut down after telling my story.

I was raised a christian and had strayed for a little and then found my way back to God. I had experienced several positive experiences in my youth at church camp and the like. For instance God showed up and it was a feeling you just can't describe and this girl (Lauren) I had known for years falls down and starts calling out words of wisdom (prophecy) very accurately. She looks over at this other girl Sabrina and says "God sees you in your closet smoking and he doesn't like it." I look up and the ceiling fan above her has started spinning backwards. Someone said it was the glory of God rising up off her. Then she calls me over and tells me I will be married and we will love each other very much and we will witness on the weekends. Didn't think much of it at the time except I thought "I don't want to witness". The being married and loving each other very much part was very helpful later on when I had just about given up on finding a good woman.

Fast forward I was attending this church and they were doing what they called "the fire tunnel", which is just the pastors and helpers stand in a line on both sides and you walk through and they all pray for you as you walk. So I'm in line and I really start to feel excited and Gods presence in the room. Two times I have felt my arms at the elbow down to my fingers and mouth, just mouth not jaw or face, go numb and feel like electricity is flowing in them. This was one of those times.

So I start to walk through this tunnel with my eyes closed and hands raised and I see a figure of a man all white on the inside of my eyelids. I kinda peeked my eye open to see if there was a bright light I was facing but there were just people around me. I closed my eye again and saw this figure coming towards me with arms out like a hug. As he got closer I could see arms, legs, and torso with some distinction, but his face was radiating so I couldn't make that out. He came towards me until his arms then rest of his body go into my body. I could see my body when I looked down with my eyes closed. When he went inside of me I felt him hug some part of me. Maybe my soul or spirit, but either way it was the inner me, my real self. When he did that I dropped to the ground immediately and started crying my eyes out. Tears of joy, I didn't know why I was happy, but I was hysterically crying.

With people walking over me I tried to get up but was weak. I started walking again and it happened again a hug again and I dropped crying. This time the people praying parted and let me crawl to a chair to sit down. As I'm sitting there trying to figure out what happened I hear an audible voice say "The first time is because you asked. The second is because I love you." Immediately I was shown and reminded of something I did when I was maybe five.

I was saying my nightly prayer and I just started talking to God like he was right there. I said "I just want to hug you." Then I thought about it and thought he might come through the air vent or something spooky like that so I said "not yet, but when I'm ready I want to hug you." I already believed in God, but that just showed that he loved me and cared so much that he thought "Good idea, we'll do that." even after I forgot and had walked away and then come back to him.

If you want proof that God is real, then what happened to me is not for you. It was a very personal experience that was specific for me. If you ask and seek Him, He will answer you so be on the lookout. Also every time someone new seek after God the demons seem to come out and try to scare them off. I had a friend that when they started talking about God at a booth at Chili's, the table started shaking so much so that people were looking to see what was going on. Then crap started happening at home. So anyways, don't let them scare you off. It's all spooky tactics to veer you away. The name of Jesus is very powerful. I hope nobody has to deal with this aspect of spiritual warfare, but if you do you can talk to me about it. I've had attacks from being pinned to the bed to it imitating my wife and then turning back in front of me. Don't really like to talk about the demonic aspect too much because it is essentially worship of them to give center of attention and ooh and aah over what they did.

If you have questions I will answer as best I can. I tried to be as descriptive as possible.
edit on 25-8-2012 by awakendminds because: Misspelled and over capitalized some words



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 02:52 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Nooneimparticular
 

Don't bother. In my experience the atheist is closed and this one will even admit to have seen proof, and still he's back to being an atheist! It's absurd.

P.S. God even revealed himself to him in a dream, but because God didn't have an elephant head or a Buddha belly, he dismissed it out of hand..!

edit on 24-8-2012 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)

Where is this PROOF? If you dream of unicorns, does that make them real? A dream is only proof that it's a dream. God appearing and standing before an audience is proof of god. If he appears before only one, then that person's mental state may be called into question.

Consider this: God wants you to know him. Right? Well, god is GOD. If he wanted you to know him he'd just pop in for coffee some time. He can do that because he's GOD!

Did they have good coffee in Jesus' day I wonder..?

For Pete's sake, God is spirit and truth, and loving symphathetic harmonious understanding, even the self aware spirit of the universe, not some "guy" who's riding the bus, unless Christ is really with me at that moment in time..

You could see a marvel, be told testimony after testimony, God could even appear to you in a dream and it would NEVER be enough for you, which is why he said "love me" like a command, to stress the importance of it.

And yes, some dreams are prophetic and highly meaningful and significant, but it won't get through to you unless you can share a beer with him and tug on his beard!?!!



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 04:29 AM
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Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by jiggerj
In order to believe beyond doubt I would need to witness God or Jesus appearing in the sky...


I thought you said that CHRISTIANS were the ones that don't want to hear the truth?


How is your statement relevant to my statement?



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 04:56 AM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan

You could see a marvel, be told testimony after testimony, God could even appear to you in a dream and it would NEVER be enough for you,


This god holds your fate in his hands. What awaits you is the possibility of an eternity in a fiery hell. So, you are correct, god appearing in a dream should NEVER be enough for anyone. Seeing an angel after your fifth rum and coke is not enough. A televangelist informing us that god poured out his fury on Haiti because their ancestors once made a deal with the devil is not enough. Someone telling us that god created AIDS because he hates homosexuals is not enough.

The evidence of god should not be questionable. And only a god could produce such evidence.

Heading to work. Have a good day!



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 05:05 AM
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Interesting but nonetheless, whether the creator wants or not, we pay tribute for this ultimate gift of life. We have an actual chance of conquering our dreams in our waking ours and even dreaming about the dream instead of just darkness and empty space.
It's called faith and there is so much we don't understand about the universe so making a defined stance at this early part in our civilization would be foolish?. We have been here for a short time and came so far. Evoloution is speeding up as the universe expands
Our goal is the stars and possibly unite with our long lost cousins. I believe life has a purpose and it goes hand in hand with my faith in the divine creator
edit on 25-8-2012 by HamrHeed because: (no reason given)
edit on 25-8-2012 by HamrHeed because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 05:26 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by jiggerj
In order to believe beyond doubt I would need to witness God or Jesus appearing in the sky...


I thought you said that CHRISTIANS were the ones that don't want to hear the truth?


How is your statement relevant to my statement?


If you are waiting for god and jesus to appear in the sky, you will be waiting long. If you understood christianity more, you would recognize that what you suggested, while possible like anything is highly unlikely because an atheist told you of a white bearded guy in the sky with flaws and a sun named jose.
Too many people have bought into the "souvenir shop" of christianity
edit on 25-8-2012 by HamrHeed because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:24 AM
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I went thru a lifechanging event where I had a moment where everything/reality made sense and directly after that I heard something inside my head that was only meant for me.

After this event my way of looking at reality is shifted and religon/sprituality/science have come together to show the same thing. And the both physical and knowledgebased blessings from the unspecified source is very nice.

Either I have a personal connection to god or a connection to something that is connected to god or a personal connection to something unknown trying to fool me into thinking it is god. It does not really matter. I follow what I think is devine ideals over what I am told by any spirits or humans.

God cannot make me do things by authority because I question authority the most. I only listen to authority when there is a mix of reason/logic/karma/empahty and love.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 06:28 AM
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Originally posted by HamrHeed

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by jiggerj
In order to believe beyond doubt I would need to witness God or Jesus appearing in the sky...


I thought you said that CHRISTIANS were the ones that don't want to hear the truth?


How is your statement relevant to my statement?


If you are waiting for god and jesus to appear in the sky, you will be waiting long. If you understood christianity more, you would recognize that what you suggested, while possible like anything is highly unlikely because an atheist told you of a white bearded guy in the sky with flaws and a sun named jose.
Too many people have bought into the "souvenir shop" of christianity
edit on 25-8-2012 by HamrHeed because: (no reason given)


If they want Christ conciousness or proof of something more then they should work for it with chakra meditation from my point of view. Become the mystic and seek higher understanding (gnosis) and they will get it. Probably thru synchronicity.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 07:17 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


What an exciting dream/vision, jiggerj! Even more exciting is knowing that you're starting to have your own experiences! Lord knows, you've been hanging out in the religious forum for awhile asking questions and looking for answers and you've never stopped.

When God told you to "love me", he meant just that. Before you can love others and do God's will the way he expects you to, you have to build a relationship with Him first. To love Him, you need to talk to him as though He's your closest friend, loving parent and/or a supportive spouse on a regular basis. Building relationships take work and a relationship with God isn't any different.

He wants you to talk to Him, jiggerj! Talk to Him daily. Tell Him about your day. Tell Him your biggest fears. Tell Him your greatest joys. Spill your guts and He'll reveal Himself to you more often!



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 08:20 AM
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Well, Jesus told us not to cast our pearls before swine. I believe that this very much is instruction describing our responsibilities toward non-believers. If I tell a non-believer a personal story that strengthens my belief when his/her heart is not prepared to receive it, all I will receive in return is a sort of attack, disbelief, a sense that I am a fool...etc. So, we don't do it. You'd be surprised, believers share such stories with one another a good bit, because it's exciting and we believe one another when told, but not with non-believers, because there is little point.

I just made a thread that basically tells such a story, I thought it might be a nice thing to do for ATS, but no one cared, and the only person who replied just attacked me personally. There's your answer.

My Trip to Heaven - ATS Thread



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 08:33 AM
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jiggerj

From the title and opening paragraph, I thought this would be about religious experiences, in the sense of what some people rely on as a foundation for their beliefs. Your examples, however, are everyday "favors" that gods have gotten credit for, since long before Jesus showed up.

BTW, since I see threads about those things all the time, why on earth would you suppose that "fear" motivates people not to write about them?

What I have seen alluded to, including an occasional statement of reluctance to write openly about them, are religious experiences of a spiritual character. That is, an experience which is interpreted by the person as increasing their knowledge and understanding of spiritual matters, including spiritual possibilities. These would include some "near death experiences," but also visionary epsiodes that have no illness or injury associated with them, often dreams, but also waking experiences.

One sourcebook of the classics would be William James' Varieties of Religious Experience, in the public domain and available from many places on the web for free. Here's a famous incident, which happened to Richard Bucke, while riding in a cab after a visit with friends,

His mind, deeply under the influence of the ideas, images and emotions called up by the reading and talk of the evening, was calm and peaceful. He was in a state of quiet, almost passive enjoyment.

All at once, without warning of any kind, he found himself wrapped around as it were by a flame-colored cloud. For an instant, he thought of fire, some sudden conflagration in the great city; the next he knew the light was within himself.

Directly afterwards came upon him a sense of exultation, of immense joyousness accompanied or immediately followed by an intellectual illumination quite impossible to describe. Into his brain streamed one momentary lightning flash of Brahmic splendor which has ever since lightened his life; upon his heart fell one drop of Brahmic bliss, leaving thenceforward for always a foretaste of heaven.

Among other things he did not come to believe, he saw and knew that the Cosmos is not dead matter but a living Presence, that the soul of man is immortal, that the universe is built and ordered that without any peradventure all things work together for the good of each and all, that the foundation principle of the world is what we call love and that the happiness of every one is in the long run aboslutely certain.

He claims that he learned more within the few seconds during which the illumination lasted than in the previous months or even years of study, and that he learned much that no study could ever have taught.


The last paragraph explains some of the reluctance somebody might have wiritng, not "fear," but rather simply that these experiences are difficult to write about. If you add to that the possibility of a snarky reaction, then you never reach "fear" as a possible explanation of the reluctance. Why go to a lot of trouble writing something difficult for somebody who won't get anything out of it? Sharing the experience is apt to be futile unless the audience is either sympathetic, or can be prepared to discuss the matter usefully.



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by jiggerj
I've presented this list many times. In order to believe beyond doubt I would need to witness events such as these:

1. Amputated arms and/or legs miraculously cured.


This doesn't prove God or Jesus;

This is why I don't follow any gods. I'd rather follow "The Kingdom of Heaven within" me.


since when did non believers need proof anyway? can it be they are searching for God...


Thou would’st not seek me hadst thou not found me
edit on 25-8-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2012 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 

I can't count how many times I've either heard or read about someone believing in God/Jesus because of their personal experiences. Yet, most of them refuse to elaborate on what exactly those experiences were. I'm pretty sure the reason for such secrecy is because these people don't want to hear the truth about those experiences, how they were perfectly normal, everyday events.
My belief in God does not have a starting point that I am aware of, so I would not say I believe based on an event in particular in my more current memory, as in since I was around 5 years old.
But, I have had miraculous type experiences which I sometimes think could lead someone else to a similar belief as mine, if I could tell the stories in the right way where it would be convincing. That being said, it could lead someone to feel a sort of responsibility towards how they do tell them, and maybe to the point of developing a reluctance based on a fear that you are messing it up in the telling. Now that may not seem especially rational but I don't think of people as being overwhelmingly ruled by rationality.
edit on 25-8-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19





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