Police Shoot Another 911 Caller In Her Own Backyard

Originally posted by jtap66
Or maybe - just maybe - the cops wear this gear and arrive paranoid because organizations like the NRA insist on spending millions to ensure that your average citizen has access to armor-piercing ammunition.

Not something the beat cop of the 1950's had to worry about, is it?

It's a shame this happened, but it's yet another price to pay when you're a nation obsessed with firearms.

not even a decent straw man argument. lulz

hey if they cant go out without being paranoid then perhaps a new line of work is in order, maybe mcdonalds or walmart for them.

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle


It's not a straw man argument. It's fact. Part of clamboring to live in an armed society is accepting collateral damage as a consequence of your "freedom". You got your wish. Society is armed to the teeth. That makes the job of a police officer that much more difficult. Of course you armchair quarterback their every move without actually facing danger. You trash talk the cops, but immediately dial 911 if someone breaks into your house or holds you up.

"Cops are the problem! Government's the problem!"

It's just lobbing rocks at authority figures like a petulant teenager, because a segment of the population can't get what they want when they want it every hour of every day.

Not saying there isn't corruption in government and law enforcement. There is. But calling for them to be disbanded or disarmed because of it is like reverting back to a horse and buggy because your car threw a rod. I'm not saying we shouldn't be able to own guns. I support that right.

Part of your freedom is responsibility. There are repercussions for living in an armed society.

People saying the police need to be better trained;
I think not, they are doing exactly what they have been trained to do.

Source

At least nine other victims on the street were also shot, but Mayor Michael Bloomberg said it is unclear whether they were shot by the suspect or police. “Some may have been shot accidentally by police officers who responded immediately,” said Bloomberg.

That's funny, 9 others were shot by cops just to get one guy.

Cop: Omg there's a gunman on the loose near by. That means I can go on a shooting spree!

*pew pew pew*

Cop: Oops looks like I hit a few others by accident. It's ok though, i'm a cop.

reply to post by jtap66


most ap rounds are military surplus from ww1 and 2....or are capable of piercing armor by virtue of its caliber(.308,7.62x54r) and cops in the 30's were getting shot at with fully automatic Tommy guns (post office even carried them) not to mention Browning automatic rifles(BAR) so i would have to say cops are more safe now then they were back in the day(1920's-1970) considering that now you have to jump through hoops to get class 3 weapons

the only thing that has changed since then is the militarization of the police,their armament level and general lack of community involvement.
Back in the day police walked beats knew those in their communities and if you contacted the police they would solve your problem without you shooting you or your loved ones.

before they viewed the public as people to talk to and interact with and got to know the locals and the shop keepers and thus by default started to figure out who was a trouble maker and what type as opposed to showing up assuming its gonna be a fire fight and flipping out on any one that would question them or their motives

back in the day only criminals had to fear cops not the people now it seems that cops want to be feared by all not just criminals

Originally posted by jtap66
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

 

It's not a straw man argument. It's fact. Part of clamboring to live in an armed society is accepting collateral damage as a consequence of your "freedom". You got your wish. S

is that what it's called collateral damage? i call it murder by an ignorant incompetent stooge, hired by the same.

yes we have bows and arrows, knives, rocks, cars, glass, gasoline, pipes and bats as well, should we be punished for our freedom to have them as well? there is no such thing as collateral damage, just a fancy term used when those in charge screw up and kill innocent people and are then not prosecuted because they're in the club.

The Law Officials are given to much leeway and abuse there power even more in the hard times they are suppose to shine in!

Originally posted by Hefficide
I've commented on several occasions, previously - regarding this topic. But it's the kind of thing that bears mentioning from time to time...

When I was a kid cops were mostly fat guys who patrolled the neighborhood. They knew everyones names. They were a part of their community. Each cop got a beat and that is the cop you almost always saw in your area. Just a mostly regular guy, in a blue uniform and funny hat, who happened to carry a revolver on his hip.

Fast forward to now...

Cops wear tactical gear. They wear BDU's and web gear. The revolver is gone - replaced by a high caliber Glock. They are younger, meaner, leaner, and most look like they wouldn't pass a steroid test if their life depended upon it. They are, for the most part, combat veterans now. Young guys who did a tour or three in the middle east and came back. They don't patrol the neighborhoods like they used to. They don't talk to the folks in the area. They don't wave when you pass them. They are hard and angry men and women now.

This is the problem. The US police stopped being cops and became militarized. They are soldiers and they see this as a war zone. This war is called the "war on drugs" but it's just a non-sequitur. War is war.

And we are the enemy.

~Heff

edit on 8/23/12 by Hefficide because: clarity

All that even though I saw on the news a day ago that the total violent crimes in the US is way down since 2009, it has kept going down...something like that. Will have to try and find that again.

"The deputies ran into Orey, and one of them had a “spontaneous reaction.”"

A "spontaneous reaction"?! - HA! LOL! A "spontaneous reaction" is what a young guy has when visiting a strip club for the first time! These black ninja wanna-be adventurers are trained to see everyone outside their unit as a piece of meat and treat them accordingly. They may be veterans, and I thank them for that, but someone on this side of the pond has brainwashed them into thinking their fellow citizens are the enemy. I lived in San Diego for a time when I was in the Navy and my wife and I loved it and still love to visit but I've heard some reports that it's gotten somewhat rougher for various reasons down there. I don't know since I never had a problem even as a young guy on his own in a big city.

To turn the cities into militarized zones has been a trend that has been going on since, I guess, the 70's with the bank robberies in L.A. where the police were just simply out gunned. That was the fault of the panty-waist politicians and bureaucrats that controlled them. Given the choice any officer would have had at his/her disposal an appropriate weapon to take care of a situation in an expeditious and surgical manner. "Shock and Awe" should be kept to a war zone on the other side of our borders. Not in our back yards!!!

reply to post by jtap66


And how exactly do you know that she had a gun? It seems like people look for every chance they can find to take away MY second amendment right to defend myself, even if it has little to do with the story. You can choose to rely on pigs like this to shoot (or in your happy little world, protect) you all you want, but don't force people like me to live by your principles.

How is it that for us citizens, in everyday life, if we know people close to us who are, have or are planning on committing a crime, it's guilt by association, yet that same standard doesn't apply to cops, who repeatedly use the excuse that it's just a few bad apples?

The rate at which these stories are coming out shows it is far from a few bad apples, instead it's a culture ingrained in coverups and sticking together with your brothers in blue, and I rarely, if ever hear other cops coming out and blasting this sort of behavior or turning in their badges because of what their profession has become. Know why? Because most are part of the shady behavior in one way or another. If a woman can be assumed to be guilty for simply calling 911, and gets shot because of it, then most cops sure as hell can be assumed guilty for being a part of this corruption and abuse of power, not saying anything to not ruffle feathers, and continuing to show up to work.

We're more and more frequently assumed guilty, and guilty enough that lethal force or great bodily harm is necessary, yet cops should continue to receive the benefit of doubt? Seems they're just full of excuses, and when most of these things happen all we hear are excuses from the offending department.

I have a different view of law enforcement. My father was a deputy sheriff for 30 years. Just like any government, organization or job, you have your bad apples. Sadly, a few ruin the image of all. Not all law enforcement are stupid, corrupt and trigger happy. Everyone is quick to bash, judge and assume, yet will call upon them when help is needed. Its easy to sit on your butt and trash talk the police from the anonymity of your computer. How would you like to go to a job everyday where 90% of the time, all you do is deal with the scum of society? Where most of the people you encounter want you dead simply because of your uniform and won’t think twice about killing you. How do you think that affects someone? Its makes you suspicious, standoffish, nervous and fearful. These days you have ruthless criminals who are better armed than the police. Armed with stuff that will go through vests like butter. If it was an easy, happy job more people would do it. Its hard, scary and complex. All is not black and white, nothing is. They are human just like everyone on this website. And just like everyone here, humans are horribley flawed creatures. No matter how much training you have, mistakes are going to happen. No matter how hard you try to weed out the crazies who apply, you can’t get them all. Should law enforcement be drug/steroids tested, yes! Should they be made to attend mandatory therapy, yes! Should they have to take routine mental illness tests, yes! Being in law enforcement, firefighter, emt, military branch or any kind of first responder all these things should be mandatory. They work in a high stress environment. It takes a toll on them mentally and emotionally.

I’m not excusing the horrible accidents that happen. But before the one sided bashing begins perhaps they should try to understand the other side. The people who are doing their jobs with their hearts in the right place don’t wake up in the morning hopping they get to kill someone that day. I don’t think most people want to live with that for the rest of their lives. They also don’t want to get killed because they are trying to help. It’s a fine scary line they walk everyday.

Originally posted by ZenTam
Sadly, a few ruin the image of all. Not all law enforcement are stupid, corrupt and trigger happy.

If you are going to play the "bad apple" card, then it is the responsibility of the LEO community to police itself. They know who the "bad apples" are and should move heaven and earth to remove them from any position of authority BEFORE they kill an innocent. If they do not then they ARE a "bad apple".

How would you like to go to a job everyday where 90% of the time, all you do is deal with the scum of society? Where most of the people you encounter want you dead simply because of your uniform and won’t think twice about killing you.

The solution to this problem is to get their butt out of the cruiser and meet the people they are serving! Instead they hide behind billboards and around corners and only show themselves when they run out to ticket or assault someone. If people see LEOs actually PROTECTING and SERVING rather than policing those LEOs will regain the public trust.

No matter how much training you have, mistakes are going to happen.

"Mistakes"? An LEO "mistake" is an innocent citizen MURDERED!!!! I don't call that a mistake! I call it what it is.

They work in a high stress environment. It takes a toll on them mentally and emotionally.

That is why we the citizens spend so much money providing training and support. A large part of this stress would be removed if the LEO was out among regular people, encountering them in normal situations. But to do that the LEO would have to actually get out and WALK among the people. I can't tell you the last time I saw that happen.

I’m not excusing the horrible accidents that happen.

"Accident"?? Is that the same as "mistake"? Your accidents and mistakes are the citizen's LIVES!!!

It’s a fine scary line they walk everyday.

And it is becoming a fine and scary line whenever a citizen calls an LEO for help!

The deputies ran into Orey, and one of them had a “spontaneous reaction.”

So, the cops first thought is to shoot first, ask questions later?
This tells me alot about their frame of mind.
Sadly, nothing will happen to the cop, it'll be blamed on the victim. Something like, "She shouldn't have came out of her house" and this will just fade away.
Are they still wondering where the hate and mistrust comes from? What pisses me off, is that they see these type of things as our fault. Just knuckle under, do what we say and you probably won't get hurt.

Boy, it sure is a good thing that Americans carry guns.

Yup, they help to keep people safe while acting as a pretty good "deterrent" from violent crime.

When my g/f and I lived (unfortunately) in a boarding house- we had a truly insane person living down the hall. He ATE his walls. He lived worse than a roach (debris and trash piled a FOOT around his bed)- they had the door open when he left to begin cleaning. O. M. G.

Anyways.... this SOB broke into EVERY last room in the house. He stole hammers and knives from us, and my cat must have shaved several decades off his life in the process. He had hammers, knives, and had to lock kitty in the closet! *snicker* Stole more from the other rooms. The cops were called. ALL of us, except for the nut, had kicked in doors. We ALL complained as one to the cops.

Guess who got in trouble.

If you said "everyone but the crazy", you win a prize! Oh yes. The cops accused us, I got in trouble for not having a current state ID, We got lectured... LECTURED!!!!!! They "searched" his room, said everything was perfectly normal in there (now go back and read the 1st paragraph), and told us "Pack up tonight and move- and then *ordered* us. No money, no car, and we're just gonna load up and GO WHERE. One guy got irate and started hollering, and the cop nearly pulled his gun. The guy who robbed us got preferential treatment. A LOT of it. The rest of us were criminals....

The next day: No, I'm not making this up. An alarm company ( I cant remember what one) showed up, and "just happened" to want to sell us alarm systems.....

Edited to add: I forgot. I pretty much told the cops "I'll bet you money ALL of our stuff is in his box spring"- and I was backed up by the rest of the people living there. Cops said "we searched, didnt see anything (his room was 'just fine'. Eeeeeeeeeesh.) Guess where 99% of the stolen stuff was found? IN THE DAMNED BOX SPRING. The rest of it (money, expensive watch) was gone- and he actually was able to CLAIM IT IN THE POLICE REPORT AS HIS.

The sheriff and cops will not be getting my respect ever.

Telling the truth in America is very dangerous, particularly if you criticize Law Enforcement or any Government Agency so, I am not going to say what I think about this woman being shot in her back yard; I am not going to say what I think about anything and if I am breaking laws by posting this, I hope ATS will delete my comments and this YouTube:

The new REAL ID act database set up Nationally would have informed the responding police officer the home owner was a well trained military vet and possibly armed. After he read that message in the system as he responded it likely put him on high alert for his life.

He enters the yard and gets startled, boom boom boom.....System worked as intended. Condition law enforcement psychologically to kill military members. You should read what is in this new database.....Psyop to demoralize and kill off our military. The Bankers/ crooked politicians want it that way.

I dont know how you americans can live that way. To me, living in New Zealand all I can see is stress and anger and fatugue from you people. Dont get me wrong, its tough over here too but no way like there. Our cops dont wear guns, they have them but not on them, they use tasers then guns if needed. I couldnt even imagine what its like over there

New Zealand, being almost a carbon copy of Australia, is one of the most wonderful places left on Earth .... BUT your culture is very different from the U.S. When I was in Perth with my wife while I was in the U.S. Navy back in '81 or '82 it was like stepping back in time to the attitudes and easy going 1960's but with all the modern advancements and conveniences. The streets were clean - even the alleyways! Everyone I've known that has visited your part of the world wants to move there - immediately! You are all wonderful people. We have different conditions, though, that require a different approach in their solutions, temporary as it may be at the time.

If you're referring in your query about how we live the way we do to our insistance of upholding our 2nd Ammendment right it's much more than a matter of conditioning on the part of civilians' side and has everything to do about the Founding Fathers' distrust of governments and their various enforcement mechanisms' evolution over time. We arrived at the point of which the Founders' had feared so much probably thrity years ago with the events of Ruby Ridge, Idaho and Waco, Texas. These two events focused the civilian eye on the fact that the LEOs and the military had lost any concern for civilian life and liberty at least at that point. An unarmed, non-combatant mother had a .300 Winchester Magnum slug tear through her head in Idaho and, in Waco, an event that could have had a much more peaceful end turned into a forced armed standoff because LEOs and the military wanted to exert their will rather than arrest David Korresh when he was most vulnerable out in the nearby town. As a result men, women and children died in a fire that could very well have been caused by the tanks injecting CS gas into the buildings in an effort to force people out. The only thing that was missing in these pictures was the knee-high jackboots and goose steping troops as they did a victory dance!

The Founding Fathers of America INTENTIONALLY set the people against the government as a check against its authoritarian power grabs they knew would eventually come. A nation grows, things change population wise, citizens become complacent in the face of so many unknowns of running a country (backroom schenanigans), deals are struck by politicians that don't give a damn as long as they get their cut of the action before they retire and you wind up with a porous southern boarder that has foreign troops and modern banditos taking potshots at everyone on our side of the boarder because that government has been totally corrupt longer than we have in the U.S. and allows drug cartels to run things right and left while the government on our side gives conflicting signals and incarcerates law enforcement personnel for doing their duties. Alfonse Capone would be horrified at what happens down here. What do I mean by all this? Simply that governments are not to be trusted - EVER! Your neighbor to the west proved it when they took up all the civilian guns and their crime rate went through the roof. Logic dictated it but politicians and elitists are immune to the logic of the common man.

Hope this answers some of your questions about us here on the other side of the pond.