Have i been duped? Jesus Christ is legit ?

Yeah, Jesus was real. They may have the time of his life wrong and the religions may have interpreted some of his teachings wrong but I feel he existed. Funny how people interpret the same writing different ways. There should only be one christian church if everyone interpreted the new testament right. Instead people read what their own beliefs are into the texts. This happens everywhere in the world and with every religion and law created. That is also why our legal papers and US laws and congressional bills are so complex also. Trouble is that the more complex, the more openings for misinterpretation because nobody reads the whole thing.

Originally posted by lobotomizemecapin
Eh if you absolutely must believe in jesus as god

i do not believe Jesus was a god my definition of god is undefined at the moment.

i believe the man was legit, cant word it better than that words make it messy.

i don't know about attending churches i just got maybe over excited when i posted this thread because it felt so strong and i wanted to be surrounded!

Originally posted by Th0r

Originally posted by lobotomizemecapin
Eh if you absolutely must believe in jesus as god

i do not believe Jesus was a god my definition of god is undefined at the moment.

i believe the man was legit, cant word it better than that words make it messy.

i don't know about attending churches i just got maybe over excited when i posted this thread because it felt so strong and i wanted to be surrounded!

You are

reply to post by Th0r


There may have been a Jesus, but several men since have claimed the same.
There are no living witnesses of Jesus's miracles that still live.
I believe all religions are designed to keep the peoples in line.
I'd say yes, you have been duped.
Do not be hurt, it happens to most of us.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Dude, there is only one Holy Spirit and our spirits still war with our flesh. Paul bemoaned this reality and longed for the day he could be free from the flesh. Just because we are born again doesn't mean we cannot be tempted. Christ was even tempted after the Holy Spirit descended upon Him like a dove. And yes, you begin to love the things of God and hate the things He hates. He changes us to both will and to do of His good pleasure. (Philippians 2:13)

You are not actually in disagreement here

It just came surprising, Christians today doesn't seem to be struggling the way early Christians did. Jesus even said to gouge an eye or cut a hand. He wasn't figurative, nor joking. True Christians loved God that they will cut any part of their body that consistently gets them into temptation and much struggles to sin. Their body didn't matter to them. Christians today loved their lives, their beauty, and did everything to live as long and as comfortable as possible.

Not as Jesus said: keep your life, you lose it.

Originally posted by ahnggk

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Dude, there is only one Holy Spirit and our spirits still war with our flesh. Paul bemoaned this reality and longed for the day he could be free from the flesh. Just because we are born again doesn't mean we cannot be tempted. Christ was even tempted after the Holy Spirit descended upon Him like a dove. And yes, you begin to love the things of God and hate the things He hates. He changes us to both will and to do of His good pleasure. (Philippians 2:13)

You are not actually in disagreement here

It just came surprising, Christians today doesn't seem to be struggling the way early Christians did. Jesus even said to gouge an eye or cut a hand. He wasn't figurative, nor joking. True Christians loved God that they will cut any part of their body that consistently gets them into temptation and much struggles to sin. Their body didn't matter to them. Christians today loved their lives, their beauty, and did everything to live as long and as comfortable as possible.

Not as Jesus said: keep your life, you lose it.

edit on 19-8-2012 by ahnggk because: (no reason given)

To me, this seems an extremist view which is missing the point, and potentially steering the OP who is new to the idea of Christ in the wrong direction. It completely overlooks the notion of grace, which is central to the Christian faith. GRACE is what is so wonderful about the sacrifice given at Calvary. Grace is what makes it possible for us to live without being burdened by constant guilt, and sacrifices at the temple to atone for sin.

Jesus IS that final sacrifice. While we should strive to be like him, suggesting you should cut off a limb because you are a sinner, is nonsensical and out of line with scripture. Jesus (imo) was speaking in a metaphorical sense, and using a parable (as he was often known to do). The idea being that if something in your life is preventing you from having a closer relationship with God, to cut it out. If it offends you, cut it off. Similarly, We are referred to as the Body of Christ (as believers). This applies in this sense, as well.

Nobody should live in such a world that they feel every single human instinct which might tempt them, is grounds for self mutilation. The idea is ridiculous and contradicts the scriptural reality of Gods grace and mercy completely. Not only that, but it trivializes what Jesus already went through, for US.

Originally posted by lobotomizemecapin
Eh if you absolutely must believe in jesus as god then just find a place preaching love and peace rather than hatred and hell. If you look really hard you will find one version of the belief that isnt spitting hatred at you. You may be searching for quite a while though. anyway why not just burn your bible and believe in what you feel is right and wrong... worshiping the pagan gods is coming back in style maybe you can test the waters there.

Even Jesus mentioned hellfire, that is the truth. I don't like to focus on the judgement, but sticking your head in the sand doesn't make it anyless a reality. There will be alot of people go into Gehenna with their heads in the sand. You call it hate because people preach a lifestyle that is contrary to the way you're living. Ofcourse it is your right to not believe. What is written in the bible is for those who choose to believe and live by it.
As for doing things your own way:

"Do as you will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley (Satanist)

The boundaries were drawn millenia before your ancestors were ever born.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
To me, this seems an extremist view which is missing the point, and potentially steering the OP who is new to the idea of Christ in the wrong direction. It completely overlooks the notion of grace, which is central to the Christian faith. GRACE is what is so wonderful about the sacrifice given at Calvary. Grace is what makes it possible for us to live without being burdened by constant guilt, and sacrifices at the temple to atone for sin.

Nobody should live in such a world that they feel every single human instinct which might tempt them, is grounds for self mutilation. The idea is ridiculous and contradicts the scriptural reality of Gods grace and mercy completely. Not only that, but it trivializes what Jesus already went through, for US.

Typical modern Christian response. They try to downplay every 'radical' thing Jesus teaches.

So what makes the early Roman Empire Christians different from us? They were desperately poor? They were probably ugly? They were oppressed by the empire? They had no hope and probably hated their existence? Which made it easy for them to follow the teachings of Jesus?

It was not as extreme 2,000 years ago for early Christians who were mostly, desperately poor. Now it's extreme and radical because life on Earth has gone 'really good' (for humans only, sadly speaking at the expense of God's creations). Many Christians now addicted to their Earthly life and wants to keep their life which they will lose it.

What Jesus had before the Crucifixion was the partaking of the bread (his flesh[his word]) and the wine (his blood [works - upholding his words through works])

After the Crucifixion, these are the the things Jesus commanded of his disciples - make disciples of all nations (what Jesus did to make disciples?), preach repentance (tough one! look up meaning) and forgiveness of sins, teach everyone what Jesus commanded of his disciples. This does not contradict everything Jesus did before he died and resurrected. Nothing changed in fact of the core teachings of Jesus. Only thing changed are prophecies fulfilled.

The crucifixion, the death, and resurrection are some of the prophecies Jesus fulfilled. Jesus had to fulfill the prophecies so people might believe. It has nothing to do with 'sins getting nailed at the cross' which is a Paul, false doctrine.

Not everything we read in the Bible is true. The Canon Process is not inspired of the Holy Spirit. Some scriptures inspired, some not. You can't get every book in the Bible to agree, it doesn't give you the truth, it only makes you good at deceiving yourself and others!

These Christians believed in Jesus (but did not truly loved God and his Son) but sadly in Matthew 7:21-23:

"21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ "

Apparently, these Christians, didn't pay much attention to God and the Spirit. They spend far more time in their careers, hobbies, leisure, than in God's word. You will never find what you're missing with that kind of lukewarm Christianity.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


Please elaborate on the 7th Day Adventist doctrine which is not in the Bible...I am SDA and will be able to show you exactly where it is in the bible so obviously I would like to clear up any confusion when you give a recommendation against my church if you are only operating on incomplete information.

reply to post by ahnggk

It just came surprising, Christians today doesn't seem to be struggling the way early Christians did. Jesus even said to gouge an eye or cut a hand. He wasn't figurative, nor joking. True Christians loved God that they will cut any part of their body that consistently gets them into temptation and much struggles to sin. Their body didn't matter to them. Christians today loved their lives, their beauty, and did everything to live as long and as comfortable as possible.

Not as Jesus said: keep your life, you lose it.

Jesus was speaking rhetorically when he said to gouge an eye or cut off your hand. He started preaching in parables after the pharisees started trying to kill him. The moral of the story is to get rid of the things that cause you to sin. For example, you have a masturbation problem, and seeing pornographic images triggers it, would you cut off your hand to keep from pulling your pud? No, the logical thing to do would be to throw out your porno magazines or have a wife or family member put a password on x-rated content so you can't view it on the internet.

There are some things you need to understand, we live in this world until he comes or calls us home (we die)... If your body is such a hindrance, why not kill yourself and be done with it? I mean, if you're going to live in extremism you need to do it right. Suicide wasn't declared a sin until around 364 A.D. by Rome and Rome instituted those policies, before then some christian sects in northern Africa would attack travelers with sticks to get the travelers to kill them so they could be with Jesus, if that failed they would tie themselves together and throw themselves off cliffs. If you're going to do it, at least do it right.

The theme of christianity is to have mercy and forgiveness, that is a 2 way street friend. You are stuck in corrupted flesh that is an undeniable fact. Temptation will come to you almost every hour of everyday, sometimes alot in one hour. That's why we needed a Savior, we couldn't stop doing the things we do, so Jesus had to be our Passover Lamb to cover those sins or we would be under God's judgement. Not even the Apostles were perfect. Paul had a falling out with John Mark when Mark turned back and went home when they were going on a missionary journey. So you're missing one huge component:

Hebrews 8:9-12

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,

“ Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,

When I will effect a new covenant

With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;

9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers

On the day when I took them by the hand

To lead them out of the land of Egypt;

For they did not continue in My covenant,

And I did not care for them, says the Lord.

10 “ For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel

After those days, says the Lord:

I will put My laws into their minds,

And I will write them on their hearts.

And I will be their God,

And they shall be My people.

11 “ And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen,

And everyone his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’

For all will know Me,

From the least to the greatest of them.

12 “ For I will be merciful to their iniquities,

And I will remember their sins no more.”

Which comes from:

Jeremiah 31:31-34

31 “ Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “ I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

This is what Grace is right here: "I will forgive their iniquity and their sins i will remember no more", meditate on what he said.

reply to post by DeadSeraph

I would also like to mention a few churches you should stay away from at all costs (I do not intend to offend anyone, and this is entirely based on my own personal opinion):

-7th day adventists
-Mormons
-Jehovah's Witnesses
-Christian Science
-Unitarians
-Catholics (gonna get roasted for this one, I'm sure )

Why are there so many christian groups and factions??
Which group is correct, and why?

Why should I or anybody else take YOU or YOUR group more seriously than any of the groups you have mentioned?

How about the REAL christians present themselves, and then we can discuss christianity?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


I will be vouching for Seventh-Day Adventist being the only one with the fully correct teaching on every doctrine....but that does not mean I think only SDAs make it to heaven (many won't) or only Christians make it to heaven (also many won't). No particular church 'saves' you but it helps a lot to understand the character of God if you learn from the church that teaches on God's Word correctly as it makes understanding so many things so much easier (like bigger picture thoughts on why we were even created, why did God allow Satan to live and we are under his rule temporarily now). It is very late in the night in my part of the world so I will have to comeback tomorrow and try answer you with the specifics...

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Why are there so many christian groups and factions??
Which group is correct, and why?

Why should I or anybody else take YOU or YOUR group more seriously than any of the groups you have mentioned?

How about the REAL christians present themselves, and then we can discuss christianity?

AskDrBrown

You should talk to Dr. Michael Brown, jewish christian preacher and yes i said jewish christian. This is a link to his site, drop him a message. He can answer alot of questions. He answered some of mine. He also hosts a radio talk show called "In the Line of Fire".

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Jesus was speaking rhetorically when he said to gouge an eye or cut off your hand. He started preaching in parables after the pharisees started trying to kill him. The moral of the story is to get rid of the things that cause you to sin. For example, you have a masturbation problem, and seeing pornographic images triggers it, would you cut off your hand to keep from pulling your pud? No, the logical thing to do would be to throw out your porno magazines or have a wife or family member put a password on x-rated content so you can't view it on the internet.

Note: this reply is not directed towards you only but for everyone.

No Jesus wasn't rhetoric. If it was anything, that message was directed towards our times.

You'll probably bring up the argument that all of Jesus disciples did not gouge their eyes, did not castrate themselves, etc, etc. Well, 2000 years ago they had many many things to keep lust in check that they didn't have to go blind, castrate, etc.

2000 years ago where Jesus lived and preached, there were little, if any temptations as compared today. It's probably much much easier back then to not be sexually charged, to not have lust burning you:

- The women in Jesus' times were very well clad with lose and thick clothing which revealed nothing of their features, even their hair is fully covered, only revealing their faces. Even Mary Magdalene, the former village whore was very well clad. The perfume was the only thing that revealed their work, else you can't distinguish them from other women!
- They had very little porn if any. They were in poor villages, no naked statuettes in the village square.
- They had no malls, no billboards, no advertising signs that featured scantily-clad women.
- Separating males from females in gatherings were the common practice
- Most of them aren't pretty because they were very poor.
- Community bonded closely together. Fellowshipping with brothers and sisters in Jesus, keeps you away from lust/lowers lust.
- Spending a lot more time on the things of the spirit than the things of the flesh, because you are passionate of the things of the spirit greatly reduces lust.

The environment they lived in was very anti-lust. Not only that, it was VERY, VERY, conducive to receiving the teachings of Jesus in the literal context. They were a VERY, VERY, fertile ground for the seed of the truth..

..TODAY you go to a Christian church it looks like the first few minutes of a porn film. Many are scantily clad or wore figure-hugging clothes, it's all the same!

TODAY, the world has so much cares! Do I need to elaborate? We are no longer a fertile ground, save for a few desolate or very dangerous/desperate regions of the world, but are any Christians willing to risk their lives to visit those places??

Do we love our barbeque more than those who had nothing to eat?? Do we always say, "well that is NOT God's WILL for ME?? Is it always ME, ME, ME or are we ever going to do GOD's WILL for this WORLD???

Read the teachings of Jesus. He teaches only ONE WILL, that is the SINGULAR WILL of the FATHER, not HIS, not even remotely OURS.

There are no pastors, no apostles, no teachers, no missionaries. We are are ALL to be DISCIPLES!

Care to contradict that with Paul's words?? Who would you deny, Jesus, or Paul? Twist them into agreement, you're deceiving yourself and others. Jesus and the Father would never change. They were the same from the beginning, from Adam. Men have twisted the scriptures, and lost the way all in the name of PROFITS. God sent prophets, his Son, later the 2 witnesses to steer us back to the ONLY road we are supposed to travel since Adam.

The only New Covenant is our covenant with Jesus and he teaches exactly the same thing his Father did. The Word, remained the same. It never changes. It is not only for the Jews but for all, to all the nations, to the Ends of the Earth. The Gentiles get the same portion according to Jesus. The Council decided otherwise, but the Spirit was not with them but the flesh!

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

I would also like to mention a few churches you should stay away from at all costs (I do not intend to offend anyone, and this is entirely based on my own personal opinion):

-7th day adventists
-Mormons
-Jehovah's Witnesses
-Christian Science
-Unitarians
-Catholics (gonna get roasted for this one, I'm sure )

Why are there so many christian groups and factions??
Which group is correct, and why?

Why should I or anybody else take YOU or YOUR group more seriously than any of the groups you have mentioned?

How about the REAL christians present themselves, and then we can discuss christianity?

You are anti-christian. You know as well as I do that you will systematically discredit and attempt to belittle anyone who does come forward and claim to be a "REAL" Christian.

I find it strange how people who don't believe in Jesus Christ at all, are all so eager to dissuade someone who wants to know more about him. If you think it's all hogwash, why do you have so much emotion invested in the subject, and why do you see it as your duty to interject your non-belief, and attempt to dissuade someone who wishes to learn?

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

Please elaborate on the 7th Day Adventist doctrine which is not in the Bible...I am SDA and will be able to show you exactly where it is in the bible so obviously I would like to clear up any confusion when you give a recommendation against my church if you are only operating on incomplete information.

I figured you'd pop in

7th day adventists teach that Jesus Christ and the Arch Angel Michael are the same entity. This is heretical, and not in the King James bible (no matter how much you want it to be).

I agree with your assertion that different denominations are neither perfect or completely flawed. People ultimately answer to God, and only He alone truly knows our hearts. But some doctrine can be destructive, and it is my personal opinion that equating Jesus Christ with an Arch Angel is one such doctrine.

Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by Th0r

 

There may have been a Jesus, but several men since have claimed the same.
There are no living witnesses of Jesus's miracles that still live.

That may not be true, not if Jesus did what he did in such a way that there are vectors in time and space that we could use to verify and contextualize his work in time and history. Then we might see, given that he would also have been aware of this, and was working to a schedule known well in advance, that indeed we ourselves are living witnesses to a Jesus miracle, even one involving his work leading to the cross, one left just for us to discover at this moment in time and history (since we possess the astronomical physics models), where on discovery of it, left reeling and floored by the implications, we exclaim to our dismay, if not delight - HOW DID HE KNOW?!

reply to post by Th0r


Read the bible and form your own opinion to what it all means. You will come away thinking you should either love your fellow man, or kill him. Everything in the bible is open to your own interpretation. Kind of a feel good, no guilt no matter what you do, kind of book.

reply to post by jiggerj

Or, like "slapping yourself silly" for being so foolish and presumptuous and unnecessarily adversarial towards Jesus and his followers...

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
That may not be true, not if Jesus did what he did in such a way that there are vectors in time and space that we could use to verify and contextualize his work in time and history. Then we might see, given that he would also have been aware of this, and was working to a schedule known well in advance, that indeed we ourselves are living witnesses to a Jesus miracle, even one involving his work leading to the cross, one left just for us to discover at this moment in time and history (since we possess the astronomical physics models), where on discovery of it, left reeling and floored by the implications, we exclaim to our dismay, if not delight - HOW DID HE KNOW?!

To make it simple, we are all witness to the destruction of God's creations.

The exact opposite is God, Jesus, the Spirit.