Originally posted by DeadSeraph
Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by DeadSeraph
Please elaborate on the 7th Day Adventist doctrine which is not in the Bible...I am SDA and will be able to show you exactly where it is in the bible
so obviously I would like to clear up any confusion when you give a recommendation against my church if you are only operating on incomplete
I figured you'd pop in
7th day adventists teach that Jesus Christ and the Arch Angel Michael are the same entity. This is heretical, and not in the King James bible (no
matter how much you want it to be).
I agree with your assertion that different denominations are neither perfect or completely flawed. People ultimately answer to God, and only He alone
truly knows our hearts. But some doctrine can be destructive, and it is my personal opinion that equating Jesus Christ with an Arch Angel is one such
Just so your reading of my supporting evidence isn't framed the wrong way I will say straight away that by calling Arch-angel Michael to be another
name for Jesus we are not saying that Jesus is a created being by any means (but rather taking on the other meaning of 'angel' being 'message' or in
this instance as arch-angel to mean 'highest message to the world').
Let us first look at some instances where a particular Angel (messenger) of the Lord claiming the titles of God, recognized as God and honoured as God
is given to us:
- Judges chapter 6...concerning Gideon
Judges 6:12 And the angel of the Lord appeared to him...[verse 14] Then the LORD [Strong's #3068 Yhvh] turned to him and said...
Here we have an angel of the Lord identified as YHVH, the God of Israel and if no one has ever seen the Father then guess who it is then...
- Judges 13 - The Birth of Samson
[verse 3]And the angel of the Lord appeared to the woman...[verse 22]And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God
This angel is identified by Manoah as God...if they had seen God the Father then his concern of them surely dying might be justified but they didn't
see the Father, they saw His Son.
- Exodus 3 - Moses at the Burning Bushing
[verse 2] And the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush...[verse 4] And when the LORD [Strong's #3068
Yhvh] saw that he turned aside to see, God [Strong's #0430] called to him out of the middle of the bush...[v. 5] Then He said, "Do not come near here;
remove your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground." [v. 6] He said also, "I am the God of your father, the
God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." Then Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.
So an angel (messenger) talks to Moses and this messenger is identified as LORD, God, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob and
says the ground Moses is on now is holy and more reverence should be paid. Surely this would be blasphemy for this 'angel of the Lord' to claim and
demand such things if he was in fact one of the created angels. It is not blasphemy because the meaning once again is messenger and not a reference to
a created being.
- Genesis 31:11-13
[v.11] And the angel of God spake unto me in a dream... [v.13] I am the God of Bethel...
What does the name Michael actually mean?
The name Michael is of Hebrew origin, and is a word compiled of three separate hebrew words. These are:
(1) miy - This word is an interrogative pronoun of persons, according to Strong’s, and literally means “Who?”
(2) kiy - This is a conjunction, connecting miy with el.
(3) el - This word is normally translated “God” and refers most often to the God of heaven.
The name therefore literally means, as Strong’s puts it: Who (is) like God?
What does “archangel” mean? According to Strong’s, it means “chief angel.” Thayer’s Greek Definition says it means, “Chief of the
angels.” So Michael is the chief angel, or chief of all the angels of God.
The Hebrew equivalent of “chief” is the Hebrew word sar which can be translated either chief, prince, ruler, or captain.
Other parallels which shows they are the same
(1) And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble,
such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found
written in the book.
(2) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Note that it is only after Michael stands up that those who sleep in the grave “shall awake.” Now read what Jesus said of himself:
(25) Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall
(26) For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
(27) And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
(28) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
(29) And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of
The parallel between verse 29 and Daniel 12:2 is clearly seen. At the appearance and sound of both Michael and Jesus Christ the dead will rise from
the grave. Who then is the one who will raise the dead? Michael or Jesus? Paul has the answer:
1 Thessalonians 4:16
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ
shall rise first
Michael, who is really Jesus Christ, is the one with whose voice “of the archangel” raises the dead… “some to everlasting life, and some to
shame and everlasting contempt!”
From some logical reasoning - (We are told of 3 arch-angels (highest angels) in the bible but surely there can only be one at a time)
Lucifer was the original arch-angel in heaven and understood to be the highest created being. How could Michael defeat Lucifer if Lucifer is
higher/more powerful than Michael? Well it is because Michael (the one who is what God is, God's highest message to the world Jesus) is higher and
more powerful than any created being. When Lucifer fell he was replaced by Gabriel who then became the highest amongst the angels. But Michael who is
also given the title arch-angel is not an angel, He is the highest message/messenger and captain of the angels and heavenly hosts but not a created
being angel himself.
Don't think that Adventists are being heretical in viewing Michael as God, it is just like viewing Immanuel (name given to Jesus meaning 'God with
us') as God.
Even the top occultist sources infer that Michael is Jesus. Here we have Crowley describing his god Satan.
It is through this weakness that the perfected man, the Sun, is of dual nature, and his evil twin slays him in his glory. So the triumphant Lord
of Heaven, the beloved of Apollo and the Muses is brought down into the dust...
source: p. 635, chapter 67 Confessions by Aleister Crowley
Considering that Satan wants to see himself as God's equal and that in the occult/New Age they call Jesus darkness thus the use of the words 'his evil
twin', we see here that Crowley admits Jesus is the one who slays him and causes him to be 'brought down into the dust' (thrown out of heaven and on
to the Earth). So if the Bible says it was Michael and a follower of Satan admits it was Jesus then perhaps like the Bible heavily infers, they are
one and the same.
Now I can do this kind of analysis on probably another doctrine you'll raise eventually, the investigative judgment, and with the same results of
showing you that the doctrine is there and perfectly justified in the Bible, although it will most likely be as equally time consuming. Rather than
bring up this one next that most people would not be all that familiar and not be all that interested in hearing about I would rather bring up the
- hell fire (burning until ashes not forever, consequences last forever not the burning)
- the state of the dead (the dead remain in a state described like a sleep, when one dies they don't go to heaven or receive judgment straight
- that we are still expected to keep the Divine Law (therefore the 4th commandment of the Sabbath as well as part of the new covenant terms)
It is my understanding (although I am open to correction) that these are by-in-large completely unique doctrines to Seventh-Day Adventists (except for
perhaps some minor denominations like 7th-Day Baptist or Puritan that might hold the 3rd one of those only).
Because it is my contention that all other denominations do not teach and practice correctly these fundamentals of doctrine then they are all false
prophets unto God's Word and I will show this in my next post(s).
Also, in a sense that all the other denominations (expect JW's but their other doctrines are another story lol) don't teach Michael is but another
name for Jesus and pay Michael, this highest message/messenger of the Lord due respect, then they are the ones being 'heretical'
hehe, food for
edit on 20-8-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)