US Attorneys Refuse to Assure Judge That They Are Not Already Detaining Citizens Under NDAA

And they probably already have been, DESPITE a legal injunction from a judge stopping the US Government from doing any such thing.

The US government seems determined to have the power to do away with due process and Americans’ right to a trial.

I am one of the lead plaintiffs in the civil lawsuit against the National Defense Authorization Act, which gives the President the power to hold any US citizen anywhere for as long as he wants, without charge or trial. In May, following a March hearing, Judge Katherine Forrest issued an injunction against it; this week, in a final hearing in New York City, US government lawyers essentially asserted even more extreme powers – the power to entirely disregard the Judge and the law. Indeed, on Monday, August 6, Obama’s lawyers filed an appeal to the injunction – a profoundly important development that as of this writing has been scarcely reported.

Nice, now even the courts don't matter. Not to the Obama administration. Didn't matter much to the Bush administration either.

In the March hearing, the US lawyers had confirmed that yes, the NDAA does give the President the power to lock up people like journalist Chris Hedges and peaceful activists like myself and other plaintiffs. Government attorneys have stated on record that even war correspondents could be locked up indefinitely under the NDAA. Judge Katherine Forrest had ruled for a temporary injunction against an unconstitutional provision in this law – after government attorneys refused to provide assurances to the court that plaintiffs and others would not be indefinitely detained for engaging in first amendment activities. Twice the government has refused to define what it means to be an “associated force”, and it claimed the right to refrain from offering any clear definition of this term, or clear boundaries of power under this law.

This past week’s hearing was even more terrifying: incredibly, in this hearing, Obama’s attorneys refused to assure the court, when questioned, that the NDAA’s provision – one that permits reporters and others who have not committed crimes to be detained without trial -- has not been applied by the US government anywhere in the world -- AFTER Judge Forrest’s injunction. In other words, they were saying to a US judge that they could not or would not state whether Obama’s government had complied with the legal injunction that she had lain down before them.

To this, Judge Forrest responded that if the provision has indeed been applied, the United States government itself will be in contempt of court.

dailycloudt.com...

More at link

Yup, welcome to Nazi Germany 2.0. What constitution? Oh, "that goddamned piece of paper?" Yeah, that one. Because it sure has been damned all to hell. Especially with this.

Any law enforcement- whether federal or state- tasked with executing a detain order under this ridiculous part of the NDAA ought to hang, be injected or shot for high treason against the people. You've got a judicial injunction against this part of NDAA to back you up in REFUSING any such orders. And if you are law enforcement of any kind, that's exactly what you should do. Because they can just as easily detain YOU too, for any reason they deem necessary, if you capitulate in enforcing this BS. That's right, Mr. Law. You better figure out real quick which side of the LAW you are on.

The president has the ability to kill random Americans without trial, with out even bothering with a trail in absentia...

So why would anyone be surprise that they would hesitate to lock people up with out due process if they are already ready to kill Americans if labeled a terrorist with out it as well.

The way I look at this is they can only push us so far, they seem to forget... or well maybe they don't, just how well armed Americans are.

Almost like they want to push us in a corner to get a reaction out of us.

reply to post by benrl


The last part...exactly.

I smell zionism. Technofascist zionism.

The flag will not consummate the marriage to the bloody bitch, not without some holes being drilled in her dress.

Oh, I'm happy, by the way.

Its all over. America was not invaded by the Chinese or Russians, but rather hijacked by Zionists, corporations, bankers who ran the country into the ground.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
Its all over. America was not invaded by the Chinese or Russians, but rather hijacked by Zionists, corporations, bankers who ran the country into the ground.

THAT'S RIGHT. A-and, whatever doesn't kill you, just makes you even STRONGER.

Praise JESUS!

Hey professional, good one on the reassessment of the 2nd. Why didn't everyone think of that?

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Just look at it with clear, loving eyes. You'll see that the rule of law really does apply. It's right there for every man to utilize, but I can't locate my handy link. But there's no room for hate. This ndaa stuff is just for the real bad ones, those who are unhappy and mentally unsound. Try to not get dragged into the drama that doesn't affect YOU. You get what you deserve , even in a dragnet.

en.wikipedia.org...


What more do you need? (don't think, be happy)

reply to post by davidmann

Just look at it with clear, loving eyes. You'll see that the rule of law really does apply. It's right there for every man to utilize, but I can't locate my handy link. But there's no room for hate. This ndaa stuff is just for the real bad ones, those who are unhappy and mentally unsound. Try to not get dragged into the drama that doesn't affect YOU. You get what you deserve , even in a dragnet.

First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Originally posted by davidmann
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

Try to not get dragged into the drama that doesn't affect YOU. You get what you deserve , even in a dragnet.

Not a fan of your fellow dolphin are we?

Dragnets, like tyrannical laws, are useful - if you don't mind a bit of mammal in your can of tuna.

Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by davidmann

 

Just look at it with clear, loving eyes. You'll see that the rule of law really does apply. It's right there for every man to utilize, but I can't locate my handy link. But there's no room for hate. This ndaa stuff is just for the real bad ones, those who are unhappy and mentally unsound. Try to not get dragged into the drama that doesn't affect YOU. You get what you deserve , even in a dragnet.

First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Last I looked, they don't come after people who have lifetime membership at the Chestnut Tree Cafe. Think of it as a Starbucks, with cameras and mind reading kinks, linked to the NSA. There's no place safer. One time, I sat near a guy with a DEFCON 5 radio he kept flashing. I even watched him, surreptitiously, and did a sketch. Then, the very next day, at my other Starbucks, a lady next to me in the line, asked me about FBI stuff. I was like, can you help me, I mean, really help me? I didn't want her to think I was unhappy or anything.... The cameras aren't in the washroom, like you'd think. Sometimes they're under the clothes that certain actors are wearing. There's more, but I want to be happy. Just read my link from my last outburst. We all have an obligation to study it. And here's another one, it says it all. Since the crimes have not been specified, the whole zionist technofascist datamining crush is null and void.

www.law.cornell.edu...

But don't shoot back. Clear, loving eyes. You don't want to provoke another germ war do you?

stewwebb.com...

Never forget.

To be honest, I already thought they were doing this years before the NDAA. I think it just got to the point where they wanted to rub our faces in it. They wanted to take more people who didn't agree with their way of thinking or wouldn't just bow to their every wish and command.

Most people don't realize how bad everything has gotten. Part of it, I think, is they're to afraid to see it, others are just caught up in finding work or getting their next meal. The problem is, when it smacks them in the face, they're going to hit their knees and may never get back up.

On another level alot of the people I've met seem be ignorant to the point of handicap. I was talking to one girl the other day, she knew about things concerning the "Illuminati" but had no idea who Hitler was or what a concentration camp is. It got to the point that I asked her "have you ever heard of WW2?", she basically knew that it happened but not much else.

I try to tell people about what our government is doing and what's happening in this country, and others as well. Some seem perceptive, but others don't want to hear it or believe god is going to swoop in to save them. I've managed to get my immediate family to understand and look into this stuff on their own, but how can I get people to see who don't want to, have faith that an other worldly presence will intervene or don't even have a basic understanding of this country's history, let alone world history.

Something must be amiss between what is happening, and what the OP describes. This just doesn't make sense.

Regardless, "rights" are an illusion. You only have those rights which you secure for yourself. All other "rights" are just what others allow you to have. Ask that gazelle on the plains of Africa what rights to safety it has.

Originally posted by benrl
The president has the ability to kill random Americans without trial, with out even bothering with a trail in absentia...

So why would anyone be surprise that they would hesitate to lock people up with out due process if they are already ready to kill Americans if labeled a terrorist with out it as well.

The way I look at this is they can only push us so far, they seem to forget... or well maybe they don't, just how well armed Americans are.

Almost like they want to push us in a corner to get a reaction out of us.

Usually, I always think Americans have already shown their true colors. I would say that it doesn't matter how well armed we are, because we will do nothing, absolutely nothing. Just as we have been doing. We are frightened of our government. And they, are not frightened of us.

However, this might actually rouse the people of this nation. Not yet, mind you. But if, and when, people start disappearing from their homes and workplaces for no GOOD reason, and the only thing anyone knows is, the guys in suits took them away, the citizens of this country might just get pissed off enough to say, ENOUGH.

I have my doubts, but the possibility is there. Or will we all be lamenting later...

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”

Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn

reply to post by benrl


If they come and get you in the middle of the night, how is anyone going to know? Just like the attention this story is getting, your story will get the same amount or maybe even less if not any at all.

Maybe this economy thing that has America so worried and busy trying to keep the lights on, the rent paid and food on the table, was part of the plan. How are we or why would we worry about somebody else, as far as a person disappearing or being called a terrorist, when we have ourselves to take care of first?

Look at all the things keeping our minds occupied:
jobs, no money, bills, food and gas prices, corn or lack of, oil, meteors, the sun, MARS and the thing that just landed on it, ATS, YOUTUBE, GAMING, school, Olympics, 2 mass shootings in the past month, GUN LAWS, RELIGION fights, SHTF stuff, WEED debates, 1st Amendment, 2nd Amendment, 4th Amendment, Anonymous, Occupy, WAR, and the list goes on and on forever.

If you really want to be conspiracy about the above then you could go further and say, hey, maybe all these things happen for a reason because is it weird that it all happens around election time? Not really a conspiracy because any bright minded person could figure that out pretty fast.

But, getting back to what I'm saying, People will always have something to grip and complain about but, only writing your concerns out on a forum or paper isn't really going to get anywhere but it will make you feel like you did something but, it wont go away.

Before too much longer, you will not have forums like this to post you complaints or concerns on anymore. What will you do when that happens?
They are coming and they are just around the corner and this or others like it will no longer be here and all we can do is whisper in the corners.

People have already been watching what they say in forums and in open about the government and that started happening a few years ago. I remember feeling that feeling when I was about to say something and thinking whoa, maybe I shouldn't say that because I have this sneaking feeling I am being watched. Y'all remember when we didn't have to feel like that? Sure, it has alot to do now with being on the internet but, I'm not talking about acting out in public. Our speech is suppressed now and it isn't because we choose it to be that way but, it is because of all the new laws that have passed.

Bottom line is no one cares until it happens to them or affects their family, money or livelihood and then when it happens to you, no one is gonna care because it is not them it is happening to and it wont even make the news because that is also suppressed.

I'm done rambling, its time to play some Minecraft and forget about all this crazy sh&*t

reply to post by TrueAmerican


This problem is easy to fix, if they start mass arresting people. Just simply fire first and let GOD sort them out, every single time any LEO from local state or the abc agencies approach you. After about a week there won't be enough "brown shirts" left to do anything but apologize for their actions.

We just need to make sure we follow through, and go all the way to the top. Removing and eliminating every single one of these criminal scum. It should be easy to set up a centralised court to give these sickos the fair trial they would deny us. There is evidence everywhere, it shouldn't be a problem providing enough to convvince 12 Americans to convict them. Then we simply escort them around back......and return for the next guy in line.

Also, don't forget, LEOs are people also, and most will not commit atrocitiies like this on their own countrymen. So many will quit, or help organize resistance instead of toeing the line. I

Also don't forget, we have more trained Veterans that are out than they have soldiers and LEOs in. If only us Vets stood up and fought back, the tide would be unstoppable. Not to mention, some of us Vets are quite crafy, and many civies are also. It is very easy to break a machine, you only need to remove certain small parts to break the whole.

For example, the nazzis lost ww2 because of ball bearings, we don't need to break every factory to kill plane tank and transport production. We just needed to break all the ball bearing factories, problem solved.

As in ww2, modern day machines need certain things they cannot function without, all we would have to do, even if half the populous were intered, would be to fight a war of attrition. In which case we simply cost them as much as we can every time we can, with as few people involved as possible.so as to keep our numbers decentralized and hard to find, thus hard to fight. Not to mention tech is not infallable, there are ways to circumvent any and all advantages offered by technology. I learned a few things in my time in service, and a few more since it has ended.

reply to post by inverslyproportional


I appreciate your sentiments. I really do.

But fact of the matter is you guys already did your time, and all that is really needed is for current law enforcement and/or military to uphold their oath to defend us from domestic enemies too and arrest these people. That simple. That's right. That means take your damn guns, go in there, put them in handcuffs, and haul them off to jail. The whole lot of them. I want them all tried for treason, and intentionally trying to subvert the REAL American way of due process.

And I hope every single one of you currently in the military or in law enforcement feel terrible that you haven't done a damn thing to stop it. Because you should. We can't do anything, but you can. Actually we could do something, but that's what we pay YOU for.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Typically I am more harsh on LEO than you are. But in this case I want to point out that individuals can only do individual things For example, the last time you were driving past a cop without a seatbelt on and didn't get pulled over....that was a possible case of the individual LEO doing what is right by not enforcing an unjust law. I am sure they have metrics that are followed, and all cops will give a seatbelt ticket. But I am willing to bet that a large majority know what the expectation is, and limit their seatbelt tickets to right at the minimum. I would also bet that quite a few are smart, and dole them out when appropriate (like when it is a "piling on" scenario on some clown who was driving drunk). When i say "large majority", i am meaning out of the ones who choose to ignore unjust laws, not the whole of law enforcement.

Just as in matters of race, or anything else, it is best to judge the individual I would bet that XCathdra as an LEO would exceed what you expect in regards to doing what is right. And I am certain there are more like him.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Ok, I understood that post, but did not your last post.

So BFFT, who are the "individuals" then that would be responsible, and have the jurisdiction, to arrest all the people, including the attorneys, the President, and anyone directly responsible for pushing these ridiculous laws to indefinitely detain American citizens without due process? Do you know? Because whoever they are, consider my comments redirected towards them. I am just a mere lowly voice screaming in the wind. I don't know these things. I don't want to have to know these things. But it is forced upon me.

reply to post by TrueAmerican



Consider it like a brick wall. Each individual brick is responsible for supporting the wall. However, if one brick wanted to jump out, it would find it very difficult. All the other bricks on top, the structure, hold them in place. However, if that one brick were able to get loose, it would make it easier for others that were like it, and near it, to work loose as well. What you then have to wait for is for the right brick to decide to work itself loose. That 1 brick that had bricks around it that wanted to be loose as well so that you build enough critical mass for the whole wall to begin to fall. So that the structure begins to weaken from the amount of bricks that no longer decided to give it support.

In the above scenario, which individual brick would be responsible for negating the structure? Would it be a single brick? Or a combination of many bricks?

The same with LEO. It is a structure. If 1 or 2 individuals decide to step out of line, the structure can withstand it. There has to be a critical mass in a specific area to create a collapse of the structure. From there, the collapse can spread to other areas of the structure to bring about a full collapse.

Does that make sense?

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Yeah, makes perfect sense. I would consider Tom Drake just such a brick. Worked his way loose from the NSA wall of doom and it has bankrupted him. A life's work ruined because his mortar cracked when he saw what they were doing with warrantless wiretapping and other unsavory eavesdropping on the citizenry- and so he took a sledgehammer and pounded himself free. We need some more of those bricks to break loose. And soon.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Yeah, makes perfect sense. I would consider Tom Drake just such a brick. Worked his way loose from the NSA wall of doom and it has bankrupted him. A life's work ruined because his mortar cracked when he saw what they were doing with warrantless wiretapping and other unsavory eavesdropping on the citizenry- and so he took a sledgehammer and pounded himself free. We need some more of those bricks to break loose. And soon.

It is the pressure of the structure holding the bricks in place that caused him to be bankrupted. It is what keeps other bricks "in line".