I'm an atheist, and lover of science.. but I had to wonder, what if there is something beyond our p

reply to post by miniatus

Your thoughts mean you are not an atheist but an agnostic.

FYI, its time to drop the term "atheist". this merely indicates a lack of belief in "God" which is a negative slant. Instead we "atheists" need to describe ourselves wrt what we do believe in

I am a humanist

reply to post by miniatus


I think the energy you speak of is called the soul

It's silly to have anything other than an open mind. Perhaps consciousness is a constant of reality along with space/matter/etc. Perhaps the "me" is largely a temporary illusion (that there is no core form to our beings, innate personality, that we all start from nothing and develop into something). If you strip "me" down to conciousness/sentience... and consider that the time we are not alive may pass as an instantaneous blip... and that everything that happens will happen again given enough time... hard to believe in "the nothing" any more than anything else. There would be only life (consciousness) for us, even if your next life is on life-habitable planet 1,231 1,000 million years from now.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by miniatus

 

There's some worthwhile science and scientific speculation by some of the world's leading scientists which supports the idea of the brain having both a classical and a quantum holographic mind, which interacts and exchanges informaiton with a holographic universe, such that small mind exchanges information with the zero point field or askashic field (Big Mind) also known as the akashic chronicles or by some, the "book of life", which has recorded everything that has ever happend from every angle and perspective via an eternal evolutionary process including the rise and fall of prior universes.

Scientists to look at would include

Carl Pibram - holographic mind
David Bohm - physicist, holographic universe
Roger Penrose - physicist, quantum mind
Irvin Laszlo - physicist, akashic field
Bernard Haisch - physicist, zero point field
Amit Goswami - physicist, downward causation and the self aware universe

These are but a few who are exploring what many refer to as the new paradigm of science.

From what I can tell, materialist monism (the idea that matter alone is primary and consciousness exclusively an epiphenomenon of matter) is dead and has now been replaced by what Goswami calls "monistic idealism" (consciousness is the ground of all being and becoming). In the latter framework of understanding, the basic consciousness of the universe, which is an typoe of organic, unified, cosmological, informational matrix, is forever retained, and thus may be considered to reside outside of or transcendant of, the space-time continuum.

It should be noted that only the framework of monistic idealism is capable of satisfactorily resolving all the quantum paradoxes, which cannot be resolved within the context of a classical, Newtonian, materialist monism, and therefore, one must be discarded in favor of the other, even though the propositions put forward by monistic idealism involving as they do absolute wholeness and integration, make doing science the way its been done (breaking things into pieces and examining them both separately and in terms of their interaction with one other parts) rather difficult.

But make no mistake, the idea that consciousness resides exclusively "in the scull" is a dead and dying worldview, which simply cannot hold up in light of modern science and quantum theory. Perhaps the ancient wisdom and spiritual traditions were not so far off the mark after all.. wouldn't that be funny, if atheism is disproven by the latest findings of modern scientific inquiry!

Best Regards,

NAM

The question that then arises is, what is the soul, and is there an eternal "I am" which encompasses the entire depth and breadth of all being and becoming, transcendant of time and history, and of particularism or what might be called "thingness". Are we, our truest, innermost self - a "thing"? That's absurd, and we all know it. Yes, it's time to drop the atheist handle if we're absolutely honest about our inquiry into the true nature and the heart of things.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
Wait, you've changed your post a few times. Do you dream? I do. I have experienced dreams. Have you experienced a soul? Not me. I have never experienced a soul. Have you?

I have. Can it be measured? No. Can I prove it to you? No.

How do I know it was real? Because it felt just as real as typing this post up.

Were there third persons who could back up the experience? Yes, but only within the experience. I'm guessing that a science minded person in that "place" would not believe me if I told them that I discuss them in this experience or that we use switches, electricity and tiny light sources in a grid to share ideas.

ETA: I'm an atheist by the way, and no you don't need to turn your card in just because your vision of reality grows larger.

reply to post by miniatus


My nature is to be scientific with spirituality all mixed up whereas I seldom " fit in" with any religious discussion as my mind is not only deep but I really have to have facts. I want proof!

Facts are few and far between though when one really dissects anything. Facts are based on previois facts that may not be fact at all but mere speculation.

I can do experiments and get different results depending on which experiment I choose. Who is to say whats what?

None of us are 100 percent sure of anything, much less why we are here and what awaits us when this journey is over.

By looking into space and knowing what we think we know in the scientific community it seems plausible to me we are energy that transforms just as everything else does in this beautiful and mysterious multi-verse.

We each have an opinion and I believe with time the opinion changes.... Transforms, if you will.

At the present moment I consider myself a seeker of truth.

Experiences in my life matter only to me as im the one who experienced my life, this far. My personal experiences lead me to believe ( because I have proof) we transform energies when leaving this body we inhabit on Earth. Without the experiences though there would be less proof for me to consider when pondering an after life.

I dont understand the atheist mind set, however Im not saying that to hurt anyone.. I REALLY just dont understand. Because my mind set looks up to the stars at night and sees creation in the making. Its like I see and feel God everywhere and in everything.... But thats ME. Understanding the mind set of an atheist would allow me to see what tney see.... Its just so hard because I feel as though we are all made soooo different. Maybe there are some tnat just cannot understand my mind set either. Maybe, we are not supposed to understand.

Originally posted by miniatus

Originally posted by lambs to lions
reply to post by miniatus

 

Yes, miniatus, there is an energy, it's called your soul. Why would you try to deny that you have one? You are more than a sack of meat. And meditation, sounds a lot like prayer. Quit playing atheist, open your heart and welcome reality. It sounds like He is tapping on your shoulder. There is nothing irrational about a belief in a higher being that created us, however, there is an agenda to make it seem so.

I never proposed meditation, someone else did .. I'm not playing atheist, I firmly do not believe in God...

Then you are truly free! There is a god but it doesn't live in a big house with a cross on top! God, in my way of seeing things is the entire collective of energy you mentioned that can't be destroyed as is each rock, blade of grass and paper cup. We are each of us and everything that exists a part of that energy. I can be called an atheist if one must give it a label but then, so is a dog

Originally posted by AkumaStreak
It's silly to have anything other than an open mind. Perhaps consciousness is a constant of reality along with space/matter/etc. Perhaps the "me" is largely a temporary illusion (that there is no core form to our beings, innate personality, that we all start from nothing and develop into something). If you strip "me" down to conciousness/sentience... and consider that the time we are not alive may pass as an instantaneous blip... and that everything that happens will happen again given enough time... hard to believe in "the nothing" any more than anything else. There would be only life (consciousness) for us, even if your next life is on life-habitable planet 1,231 1,000 million years from now.

No eye has seen, nor the ear hear, nor the mind of man concieved, what God holds in store for those who love him.

reply to post by miniatus


That's the thing about us atheists; we're not afraid to ask 'What if?' and then accept something that comes up logical, and disregard the hogwash. Even in science I'm not buying all that's being sold.

Here's the problem with the premise you offered: When we die, if we can remember the time we spent in this life, then right now we should be able to remember a time BEFORE this life when we were part of the otherwordly domain. Like you said, energy never dies, it merely transforms.

When others claim to have died, went to heaven or wherever, then were brought back to life and remembered that other place, they seem to forget that if their brain was truly dead then it couldn't have recorded the memory of that afterlife. This isn't rocket science, yet some people refuse to accept the undeniable logic of it.

reply to post by jiggerj

It's undeniable logic only within the context of a "materialist monism" where matter alone is considered primary, and consciousness nothing but an epiphenomenon of matter, or an upward causation as an emergent phenomenon. Unfortunately this doesn't and can't explain the collapse of the wave of probability in quantum mechanics, which requires that a free choice be made, whereby the one who chooses, who has freedom, prior to choice or judgement (beyond judgement) must reside within a non-localized domain of infinite possibility. When you look into it, you'll come to see that there is no foundation to the foundation of the position that atheists presume is undeniable logic.

on what basis are you an atheist.

have you put in as much effort trying to find God as you have in your pursuit of science.

the answer to that is no, just like 99% of atheists.

some stranger finds a bone and says you're a monkey and except it.

someone says God saved their life despite horrendous odds to the contrary and you dismiss them as ill.

you'll counter the bone is proof, while the fact the person is alive is proof as well.

miracles are performed everyday, some so small and insignificant that they go unnoticed to all but to another person, it changed the course of their life.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by jiggerj

 

It's undeniable logic only within the context of a "materialist monism" where matter alone is considered primary, and consciousness nothing but an epiphenomenon of matter, or an upward causation as an emergent phenomenon. Unfortunately this doesn't and can't explain the collapse of the wave of probability in quantum mechanics, which requires that a free choice be made, whereby the one who chooses, who has freedom, prior to choice or judgement (beyond judgement) must reside within a non-localized domain of infinite possibility. When you look into it, you'll come to see that there is no foundation to the foundation of the position that atheists presume is undeniable logic.

Wow! You spewed a lot of smart stuff there.
Still, energy is NOT consciousness. As for the wave of probability, it's a bit over my head. But, when considering wave-particle duality, I have too many questions and doubts on it. For instance, in the double slit experiment, whether observed or not, what is the benefit for a photon particle to suddenly become a wave when confronted with two slits? Why should the particle bother? If there is anything of intelligence manipulating a particle into a wave at this point, what is the agenda of this intelligence? Why do photons from the sun mindlessly smash into the side of a house instead of splitting so that they can fly into the windows?

Originally posted by randomname
have you put in as much effort trying to find God as you have in your pursuit of science.

the answer to that is no, just like 99% of atheists.

I believe this to be untrue. There are many even on ATS which held a belief in god which then started to fade as they grew up.

Personally I was a very religious person (christian) during my early teens and tried very hard to fit my experiences into my religious belief. Around 16 I was no longer able to twist things to make them fit and I was not satisfied with the overly general excuses that are often used to dismiss things within the christian faith (and probably others).

Originally posted by miniatus
Anyone who knows me by my posts knows that I'm a logical, scientific minded person.. and an Atheist at that.. but I decided to let my mind wonder a bit beyond logic and came up with an interesting thought.. and I'm sure others have considered this so I'm not taking credit for anything.. this is just how my mind wondered..

It's well understood, well not exactly, but understood at least.. that our thoughts, senses, emotions.. and everything that makes us "us" .. is driven by our brian.. that jello up in your skull.. it drives everything that we do and sometimes it malfunctions of course.. but it's the pilot and our bodies are the machine that it controls.

It's also firmly believed as fact by those of us that are science minded.. that when your brain ceases to function, you are no more.. fade to black.. existance is gone for you.. Well this is where I allowed myself to break out of my logic restraints ever so briefly and think... what if that isn't true? .. what if we really are some being of energy that is simply locked in our physical form? much like a cocoon for a butterfly, and what if it's not the mind that informs the body, but that energy that informs the mind merely to drive the body.. energy never goes away it merely transforms...

I do not do drugs, I'm mentally fit, I'm not under any influences =) so don't go there .. I'm just allowing myself to slide out of my typical rational ways to ponder the possibility .. I've seen "ghosts" when I was younger, it very well could just be that it was my imagination.. but if not.. something like this could certainly explain it .. I just can't imagine any way to "test" this idea.. does it really seem that far fetched? What do you think?

Im an atheist too.

the only thing that makes me question that when we die, we actually die...is the out of body experiences I had when I was younger.

but Im pretty sure that could be explained away, Im no expert on the human body. and theres a lot we don't know about the human brain.

Ive never seen a ghost but know people that have- but I dont think I would count that as a sign of an afterlife. I mean, why are they never naked>? surely one person who was a ghost could see they dont really need clothes. lol

I will be pleasantly surprised if I wake up dead.

Originally posted by randomname
on what basis are you an atheist.

have you put in as much effort trying to find God as you have in your pursuit of science.

the answer to that is no, just like 99% of atheists.

some stranger finds a bone and says you're a monkey and except it.

someone says God saved their life despite horrendous odds to the contrary and you dismiss them as ill.

you'll counter the bone is proof, while the fact the person is alive is proof as well.

miracles are performed everyday, some so small and insignificant that they go unnoticed to all but to another person, it changed the course of their life.

I love how believers assume.

Unless you know this person personally, you have no way of knowing anything about them, much less of how they came to the conclusion that they dont believe in a god.

OP, Google "search Ministries". there will probably be one in your area. Thehy will honestly answer any question you have, and I mean ANY. Thehy will not shove anything down your throat. You will not be preached at. You will not be told you're going to burn in hell. You will simply have your questions answered.

For those that way there is no evidence, the Old Testament is full of evidence. I've had my mond blown over the years with both the historical and mathamatical evidence. In a court, Christianity and the existance of God would be "beyond a shadow of a doubt" proven. A lawyer who set out to prove it all a fake even set out with the premis that in court it would never hold water. He ended up becoming a Christian...

reply to post by miniatus
It sure would raise a lot of questions, wouldn't it? Like why and how. Why should we have a body composed of matter at all if there are other forms of stuff such as souls. What is the soul made out of anyway? What properties does it have? Where do those properties come from?

Yeah there could be such a thing as a soul in the same way that there could be an infinite variety of imagined things. But is there any reason to believe in it beyond the desire that it were true?

Originally posted by davjan4
OP, Google "search Ministries". there will probably be one in your area. Thehy will honestly answer any question you have, and I mean ANY. Thehy will not shove anything down your throat. You will not be preached at. You will not be told you're going to burn in hell. You will simply have your questions answered.

For those that way there is no evidence, the Old Testament is full of evidence. I've had my mond blown over the years with both the historical and mathamatical evidence. In a court, Christianity and the existance of God would be "beyond a shadow of a doubt" proven. A lawyer who set out to prove it all a fake even set out with the premis that in court it would never hold water. He ended up becoming a Christian...

Could I get more reference such as a link to this lawyers case please as this would prove very interesting to me...Many thanks in advance.

Originally posted by miniatus
I just can't imagine any way to "test" this idea..

Being "science minded" is not necessarily a good thing...

Science, history, and religion are nothing BUT lies... and nothing but a MASSIVE form of mind control...

"The model of human prehistory built-up by scholars over the past two centuries is sadly and completely wrong, and a deliberate tool of disinformation and mind control. ...they demonstrate a systematic destruction of proofs that show another reality than that the official story. Falsifications and even destruction of such proofs has been common for more than two hundred years." LINK

Science - The Illuminati Religion and Mind Control Tool for the Masses

Why would you need to "test" an idea that has been tested by literally millions of other people?


ATHEIST George Rodonaia - Three Days in a Morgue

"George Rodonaia underwent one of the most extended cases of a near-death experience ever recorded. Dr. Rodonaia was an avowed atheist who was killed by the KGB, pronounced dead, taken to the morgue for three days and returned to life during his own autopsy. Dr. Rodonaia was a psychiatric researcher who worked for the KGB and later became a dissident.

He was a scientist trained in historical materialism and did not believe in God. Pronounced dead immediately after he was hit by a car in 1976, he was left for three days in the morgue. He did not "return to life" until a doctor began to make an incision in his abdomen as part of an autopsy procedure. LINK

ATHEIST PROFESSOR IN HELL - Howard Storm



A former atheist went to hell...what he saw !

There came a point with me many years ago where the concept of 'evidence' with certain things stopped being valid. With concentration alone, I've experienced energies within my body that aren't/haven't been covered in science books. I can't provide any traditional 'evidence' of these energies and what they can do, yet they're more real to me than just about anything I've ever experienced. So, what do I trust, here? Myself and what I know to be true, or all the evidence in the world to tell me what I'm feeling isn't real?

I'm not anti-science or pro-religion in any sense. Science just can only go so far in realizing the big picture of things. (Not saying I know exactly what that is, either).