Theosophy and Christianity

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posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 


Whatever gave you the impression that we're done inventing? If we don't know something, it's because we don't have the means to see it yet.

You act like if we can't see it or don't know it now, we never will. And that's just...well, ignorant.
edit on 4-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


Now if a creationist or a YEC used thus excuse of 'Whatever gave you the impression that we're done inventing' then we would be laughed out of town. Creationist may have had to use a cop out like this maybe 20-30 years ago when the understanding of genetics and molecular biology where so poorly known but not now....padre

The consensus before we started was that the science is already in and confirms evolution from beginning to end....Now your using the excuse that the science still needs more time to develop to explain its massive and irreversible holes. That is the best excuse you have....so whenever the creationist view is upheld from the evidence you are going to cop out and say ...give it a bit longer for the science to refute you. You have had 6,000 years for the science to refute me and your case is looking bleak




posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 


When astronomers look into space they are also looking back in time because light travels at a finite speed – if they are looking at a star that is 6000 light years way they are seeing it how it was 6000 years ago

So if they where looking for population III stars they would need telescopes that can view objects more than 10 billion light years way

Or if you think they there should be some in our vicinity – the problems there are

population III stars should have been very large and hot so therefore short lived and after 10 billion+ years they have long since gone

or they where very small so they would be difficult to detect – but even so after 10 billion+ years they have long since gone



did you know that there is a big effort currently in astronomy to find population III stars? (scientist like to check their theory’s as much as possible)


I have a question

given that the bible story takes place on earth – from genesis to revelation – why did bible god make everything else?

Don’t you think it a bit odd that the whole point of creation is focused on one small unimportant rock orbiting a small unimportant star in an unremarkable galaxy in an unremarkable galactic cluster?

Its enough to make a thinking man wonder if the universe isn’t about us
edit on 4-9-2012 by racasan because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by racasan
So if they where looking for population III stars they would need telescopes that can view objects more than 10 billion light years way


We can acutally see further back than this with the Hubble. The problem is we need to go even further but are not capable at this time of reaching the 400-500 milllion years after the Big Bang mark to detect the theorized Population III stars. It will not be until the end of this decade that we may have conclusive evidence either way on this topic.






edit on 4-9-2012 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


oh yes you are right – I was trying to be on the safe side with my numbers


I was just looking at the James Web Telescope
www.jwst.nasa.gov...
and they have this:
www.jwst.nasa.gov...

Until around 400 million years after the Big Bang, the Universe was a very dark place. There were no stars, and there were no galaxies. Scientists would like to unravel the story of exactly what happened after the Big Bang. The James Webb Space Telescope will pierce this veil of mystery and reveal the story of the formation of the first stars and galaxies in the Universe.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 


So you are saying 6000 years ago they were making iPhone's as well? That must have been how they built the Pyramids; Siri told them....

There is no debate between creationism and evolution; it is both. Because what you and your silly ratpack of a cult haven't realized is; The creation evolves, and was never meant to remain stagnant, never changing.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 10:03 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Christians don't need to search for answers - they have them already! If you were a sincere believer, you would also know the truth. You aren't, so you cannot know and are disqualified from debating with those who do know the truth.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Its interesting to note you think that anyone has access to the truth in history. The history books were written by TPTB and are not necessarily indicative of what actually happened.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 10:26 PM
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reply to post by AsherahoftheSea
 


Your 'interesting interpretation' of the Bible is irrelevant. The Bible is not meant to be interpreted. it is meant to be taken literally and understood - which can only properly happen if the Holy Spirit empowers you.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


If your 'light' teaches that people are divine, then you are pathetically vain and deluded, egomaniacal even . You spout off rather high falutin' posts that have lots of nice words (mostly meaningless and futile, btw) but you failed to remember that the VERY FIRST lie the serpent told Eve was that she too could become a 'god'. You have fallen for the oldest trick in the book and bought it hook, line and sinker. Tsk, tsk. The first step to finding the truth is realising you don't have it already.
edit on 4-9-2012 by aardvark888 because: typo



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


I can't believe this nonsense. Every single statement of fact you've given is wrong! Every single one. Have you listened to yourself? You seem to think wisdom begins and ends with you! What an ego.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by VeritasAequitas
 


Satan was the name given to the angelic being originally known as Lucifer. You can say whatever you want, but the Bible - the only true word of God, proves you wrong. All talk about highest religion,etc, along with all man made religion is meaningless and irrelevant. If you do not know Jesus Christ and your personal Lord and Saviour, you will not enter heaven. Religion has nothing to do with being saved.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by aardvark888
 


According to most Christians, Lucifer and Satan are one and the same. Which means the fall of Lucifer took place before Adam and Eve, or during their time in the garden at the very latest. We have all heard the story of how Lucifer wanted to be like his creator, and because he tried to achieve that dream, he was cast down. This happened before Eve ever touched the tree of knowledge. That means Lucifer sinned first.

Therefore, wouldn't original sin technically be ambition? Or would it be idolatry? Is the act the sin, or is the cause? The cause must come before the act, correct? So the first sin, the original sin, is idolatry.


idolatry/īˈdälətrē/

1. Worship of idols.

2. Extreme admiration, love, or reverence for something or someone.


As we can see from the definition, it isn't too farfetched to consider the idea that Lucifer was in love with his creator, and strove to become like him, as children are apt to do. Unfortunately, "God" didn't see it that way, and cast him down for his ambitions.

According to this logic, original sin was in fact ambition/idolatry. The sin of Lucifer. An interesting thought to add to this is that usually, masters cast down slaves or servants because they fear the servant's power. Was Lucifer stronger than "God"? Was Lucifer the heir to the throne?

Blasphemous thoughts, but such deliciously rational philosophy. And I don't regret it in the slightest.




edit on 4-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by VeritasAequitas
 


quote:
We don't deny 'Jesus Christ', we just don't accept him as our 'savior'. Most Theosophists consider him to be an Ascended Master that we can learn from, much like Buddha or Confucius.
---
Unfortunately for you, Jesus didn't give you the option to dismiss him as an 'ascended master.' He said he was one with the Father, he said he was the only way to the Father. He said he was God! So... make up your mind. He was either a liar, a madman or who he claimed to be.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 



You have had 6,000 years for the science to refute me and your case is looking bleak


Well, now that you've mentioned it...your "God" has had over 1,000 years to prove his existence, to step in to save the creations he designed so poorly, and yet no sign of his supposed magnificent power - the power you guys say he has, anyway.

Your case, quite frankly, is looking rather bleak.



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 12:48 AM
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What I find interesting about atheists seeing from the truth now is always the argument is if there is a God where is he or where is his power. Do you even know what your looking for?

Its cause your looking for worldly power in man, or knowledge that leads to it, the kind that you vainly crave. Satan plays on this craving with relative ease to deceive, anyone that's been in any form of high level spiritual craft, knows that they are not the producer of the power its the spirits that are doing all the work. You've given them the right to use you, Anything that's of Satan's power to deceive you relates to something physical in nature, that you have to lust towards. Why is that?

Matthew 16:5
A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

This directly comes from trying to understand something that's not physical but living a life totally by seeking knowledge through carnal means instead of through life itself.

James Chapter 4
From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?

Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.

Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.


Corinthians
But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

So you ask for God to prove his existence but you will hardly admit that in reality you don't understand anything, your dumb, blind, and naked. Same thing with science its funny cause I was watching Jurrasic Park last night and reminded this,

Hammond
I don't understand this Luddite attitude, especially from a scientist. How could we stand in the light of discovery and not act?

Malcolm
There's nothing that great about discovery.What's so great about discovery? It's a violent, penetrative act that scars what it explores. What you call discovery I call the rape of the natural world.

edit on 5-9-2012 by EnigmaticDill because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 12:56 AM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


The reason Satan was cast of heaven it says is this,

Ezekiel
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.


So it was his iniquity that had him cast out of heaven,

Definition of Sin “The voluntary departure of a moral agent from a known rule of rectitude or duty, prescribed by God; any voluntary transgression of the divine law, or violation of a divine command"



edit on 5-9-2012 by EnigmaticDill because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 02:06 AM
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reply to post by EnigmaticDill
 


Clearly, we were programmed to transgress. How can we not be, when we find it so appealing and so easy? What does that tell you?

In addition, that whole 'iniquity' deal sounds like a perspective more than anything else. After all, immoral...aren't morals subjective? We've only heard one side of the story. A little suspicious, I think.



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 02:07 AM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 



You have had 6,000 years for the science to refute me and your case is looking bleak


Well, now that you've mentioned it...your "God" has had over 1,000 years to prove his existence, to step in to save the creations he designed so poorly, and yet no sign of his supposed magnificent power - the power you guys say he has, anyway.

Your case, quite frankly, is looking rather bleak.


What do you mean He hasn't proved His existence....haven't you ever read any close encounters of the 4th kind (CE4) testimonies of people who have been able to stop alien abduction experiences part way through???

Please get acquainted with who is the ultimate authority over all (the name above all names) and who still lives...
About the CE4 Research Group
100 personal testimonies of evidence
CE4 FAQs

Best not to force my hand......
edit on 5-9-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 03:01 AM
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reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 



Please get acquainted with who is the ultimate authority over all (the name above all names) and who still lives...


Oh, speaking of which...Jesus died for our sins, right? "God" sacrificed his only begotten son.

Well, Jesus didn't stay dead, did he? So the gesture doesn't mean much. If his death bought "God"s forgiveness, then his resurrection amounts to reneging. Someone who pays for a car, then robs the dealership three days later (taking back the money they spent), really didn't deserve that car. And whoever benefited from the use of that vehicle didn't deserve it either.

From that point of view, Jesus' sacrifice was a sham. Yet one more fallacy in a very long and disgusting list of inconsistencies. But go on, continue drinking the kool-aid...apparently, it's done more for you than critical thinking ever has. Otherwise, you'd be agreeing with me. Or, at the very least, conceding that I have a valid point.
edit on 5-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 05:06 AM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 



So you say that morality is subjective, which would be immorality. It would only be subjective because you don't have any, that comes from God, Your opposing.

I cant understand how you don't see the unrighteousness of your advocating of evil or anyone for that matter,. (well that's not an excuse cause anyone that's doing it knows they are even though they have the excuse that they don't from their ignorance)

I mean even if you look at it from a non biblical standpoint, your just being a d**k. Which really says something. How's that for being subjective.

Transgression is programmed what nonsense, the fact that you can even transgress would mean that there are obviously two courses of action there. Its a choice just like all the other immeasurable things of existence. (But they are still defined, in the action and reaction)

I wasn't religious in any sense before I became a Christian, I denied the Bible, but I never went out of my way to attack Jesus. There is something profound in this alone, which really shows that what God did is something that you will never understand from the physical standpoint, that's why were hidden away in Christ, which is really what your whole argument is about when you really strip it down to what it is.

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


And your pretty demanding, what if he doesn't answer that means your right by reason of your own reasoning who does that sound like?

Ezekiel (in reference to Satan)
Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.


Without that measuring rod (the bible) (disbelief in the book of life, the statutes and precepts of life) what happens is subjectivity, utter confusion, and immorality, which brings about the transgressions, because of lusts of things that are hidden, for good reason because they will destroy you, (sin) which brings us back to the the garden where God says not to eat of this fruit, or you will SURELY die, and the serpent tells them that they will not surely die, they'll be like God infact! knowing good and evil. What the serpent didn't say was that the knowledge was what was evil, and by knowing it your doing it! and wants your start its hard to stop, you cant get rid of it because the sin is a constant reminder.

Hebrews 10:2
For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

This is why Jesus died on the cross to destroy the works of the devil, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Hebrews 3:12
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Because

10:31
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Ephesians 4:14
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
edit on 5-9-2012 by EnigmaticDill because: (no reason given)
edit on 5-9-2012 by EnigmaticDill because: (no reason given)





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