Joplin Islamic Center burns for second time!

Hate Hate everywhere, and not a victim that earns it. Those are my feelings when seeing this story and so close to home, at that. Joplin is just an hour down the road and yet, on a story like this it feels quite a bit further and more than a few years in a disturbed past.

A second fire in less than five weeks occurred at a mosque in Joplin, Missouri early Monday morning. The cause of the latest inferno is still unknown, but Monday’s flames were much more devastating than those that occurred July 4, in an incident that authorities later determined was an act of arson.

“The building was completely destroyed; along with the security cameras,” Jasper County Sheriff’s Office spokesperson Sharon Rhine said in an email. “We don’t know at this time if it was arson.”

The FBI was involved with the investigation of the July fire, which was also set at approximately 3:30 a.m. The fire was contained on the roof, and extinguished by the Jasper County Fire Department. On July 16, the FBI announced that surveillance video showed “an unidentified white male walking up to the building and throwing an ignited object onto the roof.”

Source

What drives a man to burn down the place of Worship for another? What is ever gained by a thing like this? Yes, the United States is at war right now, despite so few signs here at home to remind us of the fact. Yes, our enemy is primarily, if not exclusively Muslim. Yes, that enemy generally forms the core of the most radical elements within Islam. The enemy isn't in Joplin, Missouri and inside the Islamic Center in the wee hours of the morning.


So, what den of Terrorist activity was being hidden in Joplin, Missouri? What plot of evil intent was being cooked up where by a local man felt the need to burn their Mosque to the ground? Surely, it must be such a plot that simply phoning the local field office to the FBI was entirely too time consuming for filing a report. Under the circumstances, the guy should be stepping forward to claim credit for saving the nation.....right?

Or... FAR FAR more likely, we have a loser and perhaps a loner. Hard to guess the last part, but the first part is self-declared by his actions. A sad, pathetic loser who seems to have found power by the destruction of what means the most to others.


How does everyone else feel? Personally, I'm sick in seeing this kind of thing happening so close to me. I'm only guessing, but I will take a guess that the fire bug who did this, never even met or got to know anyone who attended the building he destroyed. I'll bet assumptions and hate ruled the night for this criminal. I hope he isn't on the loose for very long. This kind of thing can lead to bad places, quickly.

Thoughts? Anyone think I'm too harsh in my views of Joplin's fire starter?

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
How does everyone else feel? Personally, I'm sick in seeing this kind of thing happening so close to me. I'm only guessing, but I will take a guess that the fire bug who did this, never even met or got to know anyone who attended the building he destroyed. I'll bet assumptions and hate ruled the night for this criminal. I hope he isn't on the loose for very long. This kind of thing can lead to bad places, quickly.

Thoughts? Anyone think I'm too harsh in my views of Joplin's fire starter?

Kind of like the assumptions you're making?

Let's let the investigators determine the cause of this 2nd fire before jumping to conclusions.

Seriously, what the hell is the matter with people. If this was done on purpose then the hate has to end and soon. We are only destroying ourselves. If this is what I have to look forward to for the rest of my life then let's get WW III started and end this misery.

I hate war and violence, but maybe it's time to hit the reset button.

It is possible that the second case is arson.

If so, it is also possible that it was started by a Muslim. Who knows? Insurance fires happen too.

Also, has the police/fire department released the video from the first fire?

How am I to believe such claims with no proof?


ETA: OK, here's a still from the security footage.

livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com...

Still doesn't show any fire being started, and how can this man not be identified???

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Thoughts? Anyone think I'm too harsh in my views of Joplin's fire starter?

These things are often insurance scams.

Sometimes other motives lie behind the arson.

For instance,

Previously thought to have been a hate crime against Muslims, a self-described devout Muslim immigrant is charged with first-degree arson for setting fire to the Masjid Al-Hedaya (Islamic Center of Marietta)

Link
Link

reply to post by ollncasino

I really stopped and considered your post here and well, maybe I am making an assumption. We know the first was a White Male throwing a Molotov cocktail onto the roof. They filmed it. That seems reasonable to assume, was a hateful act. You bring up a good point about reasonable assumptions though.

Insurance is possible.. Indeed... Especially in this climate, eh? This would be the right time to have little trouble being believed on some unknown man burning the place down and little else ever being known.

I guess we'll have to wait until they have the Press Conference today for more information and then, when they get the turkey.

@ Thread

Here is the video from the July 4 Arson attack. It's a little tough to see him, but they SHOULD have a clear face shot in two frames with a bit of expertise for pulling out the face, which I admit I don't have quite yet for graphics. I swear I can almost see a clear face without the video work though, and while he's holding the device that starts the fire...if only for a flash. (Not to mention...the frame youtube has for display.)

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Yes, our enemy is primarily, if not exclusively Muslim.

It is just your imaginary enemy, and it's less healthy than having imaginary friends.

Originally posted by samsamm9
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Yes, our enemy is primarily, if not exclusively Muslim.

It is just your imaginary enemy, and it's less healthy than having imaginary friends.

I'm sorry, but the motto is to deny ignorance, not embrace it. To ignore the fact that Combat operations have been ongoing, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for over 10 years in Muslim nations and against Muslim/Jihadi fighters IS ignorance.

I don't mean disrespect, but I don't apologize for being blunt. We're fighting them...and thousands of American deaths with 10's of thousands of American wounded prove the point of a 2 sided war. Therefore, it's a simple statement of cold fact that we're in a war, we're fighting Muslims and it's going on as we speak.

The fact the people we're fighting and who ARE fighting us (all those thousands of Flag draped coffins into Dover didn't come as some elaborate scheme to fool us with propaganda) are the minority are what people like the man in the video don't seem to grasp.

Given the fact there are well over 1 Billion practicing Muslims in the world, I call this kinda of crime horrible (if it was political) because I'll bet not a single one at that location had anything whatsoever to do with that minority we fight. I can't possibly know....but math is behind my in thinking the folks in Joplin were almost certainly among the Billion plus that aren't fighting anyone.

Originally posted by butcherguy
It is possible that the second case is arson.

If so, it is also possible that it was started by a Muslim. Who knows? Insurance fires happen too.

I have a strange feeling of doubt when I wonder if you'd pose the same idea if this was a church, or a school, or a house...

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by samsamm9
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Yes, our enemy is primarily, if not exclusively Muslim.

It is just your imaginary enemy, and it's less healthy than having imaginary friends.

I'm sorry, but the motto is to deny ignorance, not embrace it. To ignore the fact that Combat operations have been ongoing, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for over 10 years in Muslim nations and against Muslim/Jihadi fighters IS ignorance.

I don't mean disrespect, but I don't apologize for being blunt. We're fighting them...and thousands of American deaths with 10's of thousands of American wounded prove the point of a 2 sided war. Therefore, it's a simple statement of cold fact that we're in a war, we're fighting Muslims and it's going on as we speak.

The fact the people we're fighting and who ARE fighting us (all those thousands of Flag draped coffins into Dover didn't come as some elaborate scheme to fool us with propaganda) are the minority are what people like the man in the video don't seem to grasp.

Given the fact there are well over 1 Billion practicing Muslims in the world, I call this kinda of crime horrible (if it was political) because I'll bet not a single one at that location had anything whatsoever to do with that minority we fight. I can't possibly know....but math is behind my in thinking the folks in Joplin were almost certainly among the Billion plus that aren't fighting anyone.

Your real ennemy is those who convinced you Islam was the enemy.
Your enemy is the corporate media that fuels hatred in the weak's heart

Know your enemy.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


My brother was a high school teacher in Joplin up until a few weeks ago when he moved to Atlanta to take a college professor job. He took some friends to see the The Dictator (short trailer at end of post), when it first came out. There are VERY FEW Muslim people in Joplin, and they don't dress traditionally because it raises too much attention. My brother is a very large guy, with a big beard, and his friends were Muslim college students. They decided it would be fun to dress him up in traditional Muslim Garb, and take him to the movie to experience a day in their life.

SO, they go to the theatre, all 3 of them in traditional robes and headdress and beards. One of the kids working at the theatre was one of my brother's students from the high school. He walked over and talked with them awhile before the movie started, and then they went in and set down. Of course they got a lot of stares, and people gave them a wide berth, and they think a few people might have even left the theatre when they saw them sit down.

Anyhow, the funny part was at school the following Monday. Apparently the poor kid that talked to them had been taken back to the office and interrogated by his boss about the conversation, and there were security concerns with having them in the theatre, etc.! Just dressing in a traditional Muslim outfit in Joplin, MO is a security risk for you individually, and also for any place you might visit.

Sadly, I'm not surprised at all that the Islamic Center would burn again and again. I'm only 38, and when I was in high school, black kids were still having crosses burned in their yards if they moved to our town, and girls were getting suspended from school for dating black boys.

Here is another civil rights scandal at a high school very near Joplin, MO LBGT T-shirt lawsuit in Webb City.

This is not a tolerant part of the country.

ETA: Forgot trailer... whoops! You have to see the trailer to see the irony in wearing the robes and headdress to this particular movie.

reply to post by getreadyalready

I so wish I could argue your points and raise a raging defense of my state and my area of the nation in terms of open acceptance of others. I wasn't going to bring it up but since you have, it's fair to acknowledge the point.



The 2010 Census figures roughly support those and the School district break downs for this region are less "diverse" that that. I've literally met folks in this area who honestly haven't met a 'real life' Muslim or Hindu. The Islamic Center here in Springfield is a place I didn't even know existed for years and then only by happenstance. I happened to be on the street it's on when I saw the small sign at the curb. A winding driveway leads behind buildings and out of sight for where their center actually is. It's fair to say that diverse cultural experience isn't a strong point here as it is in any areas.

Of course, we all would agree I'm sure, lack of knowledge is no excuse for attacking and destroying what isn't understood. I'd really feel lucky if this is the only incident of it's kind in this area for the rest of the year. We get enough publicity we actually earn..without the added stuff this kind of incident can bring.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I still can't believe a grown person who has critital thinking
still thinks like that.

When it's in the corporations best interest, they send the military to do the
dirty work. And the tptb are very interested in the Middle-East for obvious economical reasons.

And they sell you the idea that "Islam" is the enemy, just like blacks, Indians, Japanese, Viet-Namese, Koreans, Communist, Drugs(lol), were once the big bad enemy, and now it's "Islam". It seems the U.S needs enemies to survive.

Deny ignorance.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I've literally met folks in this area who honestly haven't met a 'real life' Muslim or Hindu.

Growing up in Webb City, and Joplin..... I never met a "real life" black person until I was 16 years old and drove over to Pittsburgh, Kansas. I knew where the black part of town was, and we drove through it every now and then, but I never actually talked to anyone. The first time I had to wrestle against a black kid in high school, you wouldn't have believed all the silly urban legends and "warnings" I was getting from my teammates! Silly stuff you wouldn't believe if I told you.

Between the almost all white community, and the low-income, and the fact that the majority of that population never travels outside of their little town, and not a lot of people are moving into their town, it is really a throw-back in society that is only rivaled by the Apalachia folks in Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia, and the Carolinas.

I'm not knocking it, I would love to raise my kids there, it was a wonderful place to grow up, but of course I would insist upon my kids travelling and experiencing things outside of that little bubble.

It is amazing to think of all the "nevers" in different communities. Lots and lots of kids here in Florida have never seen snow. A lot of my friends from the cities have never seen a cow. Lots of kids from rural areas have never seen a Muslim, or a foreigner of any type, and some have never seen black folks. In the inner cities where my ex-wife used to work, any white lady in a pantsuit was "po-po." They never saw a woman like her unless they were there on official business (which sadly, she was). At least half the people I graduated high school with have never seen the Ocean to this day! Half have never flown in a commercial jet.

It isn't just Joplin, it is all the little neighborhoods, communities, and cultures. With all my life experience, it is odd to think of how much people are really missing out on in the world.

Hi Rabbit, Many don't see or realize the religious caste system that we have in this country that divides us.....

I would venture to rationalize that since there is a general hatred of Muslims in this area that the chances are this is another Christian terror attack. This will development will be brought fourth as this story develops and it will play right into the hand of people that want to curtail freedom in the name of safety......

yet again!

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine

Originally posted by butcherguy
It is possible that the second case is arson.

If so, it is also possible that it was started by a Muslim. Who knows? Insurance fires happen too.

I have a strange feeling of doubt when I wonder if you'd pose the same idea if this was a church, or a school, or a house...

I would pose the same idea for a church, private school or a house.

But not a public school or other government building. Not much of a record of those being burned for insurance money.

Originally posted by samsamm9
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I still can't believe a grown person who has critital thinking
still thinks like that.

When it's in the corporations best interest, they send the military to do the
dirty work. And the tptb are very interested in the Middle-East for obvious economical reasons.

And they sell you the idea that "Islam" is the enemy, just like blacks, Indians, Japanese, Viet-Namese, Koreans, Communist, Drugs(lol), were once the big bad enemy, and now it's "Islam". It seems the U.S needs enemies to survive.

Deny ignorance.

If you believe I or most like me see Islam as the enemy, then you read what you wanted to read in what I said, not what I wrote.

I said here as I have said countless times in careful clarification on this issue, I recognize a VERY small % of the Islamic Faith as Self-Declared and very active enemies of not only America but simply anything not Muslim and further, not of their specific sect and belief set.

The other 90%+ of the 1 Billion plus Muslims are folks I am sure are very much like me, with a different culture, set of priorities and general outlook on life. Similar though, in simply trying to raise our kids...make it through the month and see ends meet at the end of it.

Likewise...I think the % of "Ugly Americans" who simply hate blindly and all things Muslim is a small one. Very small. Unfortunately for Islam AND America, the loud minorities to both sides ARE the ones being seen. In this war, the loud ones on their side are planting IED's and killing their own people as well as ours. The loud ones on OUR side.....may have burned down a Mosque in Joplin.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


This hate and intolerance is being fueled by extreme politics and media, it will get worse IMO. I expect more violent towards immigrants and those of faiths other than Christianity, and gays. Many are blind to the fact that groups they support are fueling this violence on both sides of the political spectrum.

If this is arson, it is a terrible act of violence and hatred.

People must be more tolerant of their neighbors.